I don't want friends do I?

[Solongo]

Friends

Personally for me friends MUST have these qualities:

Be loyal- a.k.a extreme trust no matter what
Openness - they don't have to be INFJ's but I can be myself with them comfortably. I did have one boyfriend who was awesome like that.
Must be there for me no matter what - mainly emotionally/intellectually
This might annoy me; but I don't mind a devils advocate who can show me different perspective on thing once in a while to whip me out of my stubbornness
Be able to click and connect without having to explain myself a million times

From past experiences; I had many fickle friends who did not live up to these expectations. For some time I looked past it and hoped for the best in our friendships. Ultimately, they failed me and I couldn't cope with it so I snapped and let it go. It did hurt me a lot; but I am at a point now that I can accept people for what they are, just very picky if I want to become intimate friends. Very picky. I have an almost 100% correct intuition about someone and who they might be and what will happen if I get close to them. I have learned to listen to that voice and it has never failed me. It is a good thing.

 

[Mila]

How many friends can we endure?

The question of friendship is very present to me at the moment as I am faced with so many different concepts of friendship. Working in a multi-cultural environment I often come across people calling me their friends and sometimes being surprised that I find it difficult myself to start using the friendship lingo. For me a friendship is a very close partnership and once I say yes to a friend it is a very longterm and deep relationship. On the other hand people react annoyed in the moments I need to retreat not really accepting me drawing away. I realized that in my personal concept of friendship it is not only that other people are a challenge for me but that I am a challenge for others as well.

To your question: From my point of view yes I want friends but.....

 

[Fireflies-free]

I'm intrigued by anybody that can honestly say that they do not want or need friends. Please elaborate! No judgement, I'm just interested because I feel differently. I need fewer friends than most, but I do need friends.

Although I'm very much an introvert, I feel that one's interactions and relations with other people are a large portion of what makes life most meaningful - to help, support, love, and just be there for others. How can you really do this if you are not a friend to others? Is that not a priority in your life? Or have you had bad experiences that have made your wary of friendships? I know as INFJs, we run the risk of sacrificing our own needs for others, and can be taken advantage of.

 

[Beneath the surface]

I'm intrigued by anybody that can honestly say that they do not want or need friends. Please elaborate! No judgement, I'm just interested because I feel differently. I need fewer friends than most, but I do need friends.

Although I'm very much an introvert, I feel that one's interactions and relations with other people are a large portion of what makes life most meaningful - to help, support, love, and just be there for others. How can you really do this if you are not a friend to others? Is that not a priority in your life? Or have you had bad experiences that have made your wary of friendships? I know as INFJs, we run the risk of sacrificing our own needs for others, and can be taken advantage of.

I just think that, if we existed in a society that wasn't driven by social interactions, and if the human species were not such social animals, then I'd feel very comfortable on my own. It's weird that I say that and crave to be alone 99% of the time, yet I fear being isolated, or rather, seen as being isolated.

I don't know why I feel like this, I have quite a few friends, though there are only 2 who I can consider to be quite close to me, but even they don't 'know' me much at all; there is no-one in my life that I absolutely 'click' with. They see a lot of the surface, but they never see the depth of emotion that is bubbling deep down. Sometimes, I think the way I feel is partly due to us becoming/developing the characteristics that other people see in us/ label us with e.g. people think we're (emotionally) cold and unsociable and that is exactly what we become- we match people's expectations of us. I'm sure research has been conducted which shows this, though I have no idea why this could be.

 

[Liv]

I'm intrigued by anybody that can honestly say that they do not want or need friends. Please elaborate! No judgement, I'm just interested because I feel differently. I need fewer friends than most, but I do need friends.

Although I'm very much an introvert, I feel that one's interactions and relations with other people are a large portion of what makes life most meaningful - to help, support, love, and just be there for others. How can you really do this if you are not a friend to others? Is that not a priority in your life? Or have you had bad experiences that have made your wary of friendships? I know as INFJs, we run the risk of sacrificing our own needs for others, and can be taken advantage of.

I can only speak for myself but i would say wary.My caring has been taken advantage of far too many times.Not wanting to hurt others had lead to me being hurt.It's a vicious circle.Many infj's put up a wall as they move through life as they even begin to second guess their own intuition.Its much easier to be a friend to someone else than for them to be a friend to you.Caring about people is easy,knowing they probably don't care about you as much is the hard part to deal with.It is also generally a fact.Love is something i find very hard to accept is a real occurrence.
I am a friend to many and care about them very very much im just very careful what i tell them as i have been very hurt in the past...
hope that answers some of your questions

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Core Problem:
I suspect that the problem at the core of this thread is that some INFJ's ideal of friendship is such that very few real people can fit it. All the more so if the ideal contains the quality of permanent stability (aka reliability, loyalty?).

So having a very high ideal of friendship, which in fact identifies friendship as one of the most valuable goods possible, together with extensive and thourough experience that people cannot fit this ideal, leads some INFJ's to a cynicism about ever meeting a real person who could be a friend.

The three most likely outcomes for this situation are:
1. Keeping a high ideal of friendship, the INFJ will never find someone who can be equated with their ideal of friendship for a prolonged time.
2. The INFJ is forced to degrade/diminish their ideal of friendship in an attempt to adjust it to more realistic expectations. This is an overwhelming surrender for a strong N, as it is tantamount to a type of dishonesty - accepting, for example, that a friend could possibly betray one and still be a friend.
3. The INFJ will protect his/her ideal of friendship, by never alowing anyone to be considered a true friend, so that their (cynically expected) inevitable failure as friends will not attack the ideal, by forcing a rethink of the concept of friendship.

I am pretty much in the dilemma as to whether it is possible to keep one's high ideals and consider particular people friends without hypocrisy. I am guessing that actual friends could be called friends by analogy to the ideal - but I am uncomfortable with notion of saying that someone is a friend by analogy, unless there is an actual ideal friendship which is the basis of comparison.

**user warning: religious content to follow (I'm not a God-botherer)**

A qualified solution?
Being Christian, I see a possibility of referring to my relationship to God, which I call friendship, as the reference point for comparing other friendships. However, this cannot work because the relationship of myself to God is not one of equals, so that it cannot be analogous to friendship among people, except in a qualified sense.

 

[jn56uytrx]

Sometimes people need someone to talk to
To "touch" someone in bad need of a friend
Sometimes people need to be alone, too
To sit and watch and listen to the wind

A friend is one that takes the time to listen
To hear what someone really meant to say
A friend is one that understands your loneliness
A friend is one that doesn't walk away

I sometimes think I would prefer to be friendless than be in the company I often find myself. I dread obligatory, and yet self-imposed-"for my own good", visiting with those who because of circumstance or proximity are labelled "friend" for lack of a better description. In their company I will often feel less alone in the world (and that for me is a very positive feeling), but I rarely reach a place where I feel the true communion of friendship. So "friendship" relationships are often an exercise for my "social face" and my misguided "to have a friend, you must be a friend" motto learned in childhood.

If those in my world reach out and express a need, I am there for them to the limits of my capacity. My sensitivity to unexpressed--but still radiated--need, sometimes also brings me to their side even without them specifically reaching out. I listen when they talk, I hear as closely as I'm able, and I affirm their being. Often I feel I've failed them, but more often than not, I'm told I've lifted them up in ways unexpected to us both.

I often lose experience of others in my life until I feel need for them or they reach out to me. I have something ingrained in me that tells me if I haven't done the "being a friend" obligations of meeting every so often to talk about the trivial nothings of every day, then I am not truly their friend and so I have no rights to ask for their friendship in return when I feel need. So I cry alone in my deepest sorrows and wish I had been a better friend. Yet I have no desire to hold anyone in reverse to my own obligation of "must be a friend to have a friend". I will respond to anyone who asks, any time they ask, to the limits of my capacity. I ask no questions and demand no explanation for absence. I'm grateful to be called upon.

If I have met my self-imposed friendship obligations and listened to the trivial and the deeply painful; if I have not meandered too far away in the fog of my thoughts and felt too separated by a pea soup of time to actually reach out for help; if then after asking I do not receive what I have offered, I do feel betrayed and angry, I do feel disappointed and alone, but I still would respond as friend when called upon in return.

What would I consider the truest of friends? Someone who would appreciate my effort at friendship by offering them my earnest ear to their day-to-day expression and who would value my deepest expression of self in receiving their deepest expression of self. Someone who would hear what I mean to say, who lets me know my ear has heard their troubles and it helped. Someone who understands my absences to meander through life and who, while perhaps missing me while I'm gone, wouldn't condemn my absence. Someone who reaches out when in need--knowing I'll be there the minute I hear their siren without any question other than "how are you?"--and who would be at my side in that same minute when I sent up the distress flash.

I know that may be an odd definition of friendship, but it is mine. Yes, I want friends. I want that deepest, truest kind of friend. That kind of friend is a rare, rare, gift and I have been lucky to have a few and I have also been blind enough to miss a few standing there waiting in my fog. However, I recognize grudgingly I even want the "friends" who are of proximity and the trivialities of day-to-day, who take more than they can ever offer me in return. Some of what they can offer me is the opportunity to "be" friend, and the lightness of not feeling alone in the world. That is also valuable, and I admit it grudgingly through the smile on my "social face".

 

[just me]

I sometimes think I would prefer to be friendless than be in the company I often find myself. I dread obligatory, and yet self-imposed-"for my own good", visiting with those who because of circumstance or proximity are labelled "friend" for lack of a better description. In their company I will often feel less alone in the world (and that for me is a very positive feeling), but I rarely reach a place where I feel the true communion of friendship. So "friendship" relationships are often an exercise for my "social face" and my misguided "to have a friend, you must be a friend" motto learned in childhood.

If those in my world reach out and express a need, I am there for them to the limits of my capacity. My sensitivity to unexpressed--but still radiated--need, sometimes also brings me to their side even without them specifically reaching out. I listen when they talk, I hear as closely as I'm able, and I affirm their being. Often I feel I've failed them, but more often then not, I'm told I've lifted them up in ways unexpected to us both.

I often lose experience of others in my life until I feel need for them or they reach out to me. I have something ingrained in me that tells me if I haven't done the "being a friend" obligations of meeting every so often to talk about the trivial nothings of every day, then I am not truly their friend and so I have no rights to ask for their friendship in return when I feel need. So I cry alone in my deepest sorrows and wish I had been a better friend. Yet I have no desire to hold anyone in reverse to my own obligation of "must be a friend to have a friend". I will respond to anyone who asks, any time they ask, to the limits of my capacity. I ask no questions and demand no explanation for absence. I'm grateful to be called upon.

If I have met my self-imposed friendship obligations and listened to the trivial and the deeply painful; if I have not meandered too far away in the fog of my thoughts and felt too separated by a pea soup of time to actually reach out for help; if then after asking I do not receive what I have offered, I do feel betrayed and angry, I do feel disappointed and alone, but I still would respond as friend when called upon in return.

What would I consider the truest of friends? Someone who would appreciate my effort at friendship by offering them my earnest ear to their day-to-day expression and who would value my deepest expression of self in receiving their deepest expression of self. Someone who would hear what I mean to say, who lets me know my ear has heard their troubles and it helped. Someone who understands my absences to meander through life and who, while perhaps missing me while I'm gone, wouldn't condemn my absence. Someone who reaches out when in need--knowing I'll be there the minute I hear their siren without any question other than "how are you?"--and who would be at my side in that same minute when I sent up the distress flash.

I know that may be an odd definition of friendship, but it is mine. Yes, I want friends. I want that deepest, truest kind of friend. That kind of friend is a rare, rare, gift and I have been lucky to have a few and I have also been blind enough to miss a few standing there waiting in my fog. However, I recognize grudgingly I even want the "friends" who are of proximity and the trivialities of day-to-day, who take more than they can ever offer me in return. Some of what they can offer me is the opportunity to "be" friend, and the lightness of not feeling alone in the world. That is also valuable, and I admit it grudgingly through the smile on my "social face".

Why do we place these self-imposed friendship obligations? Is it not because of our care for others? A friend told me long ago a true charitable donation or a true gift needeth not a receipt nor anything in return. Such high standards to live by. We are human and have human frailties. That deepest, truest kind of friend is a rarity. I have a German Shepherd that is about three. He walks over to the piano when I go to it. He stays underneath the computer when I type. He lays next to me in the kitchen. He sleeps next to me on the floor close by most of the time. He is leaning next to my right foot as I type mostly asleep. I take a lot of time with this dog, though. Though not a person, we have a bond I would like to have in a friend. I hate to leave him when I have to. I take time to do the things he likes to do. He gives me love in return, and it is the type love I feel the need for the most in this life.
I think many of us cry alone in our deepest sorrow. I have found it too many times to come back to me the things I have said to others not thinking it would go anywhere else. I used to feel a bit betrayed years ago, but now I know it is merely too much to ask someone to keep things inside we have let out ourselves. If I do not want something out, I will keep it in.
Friends that can actually keep things between two people are very, very rare. Had a man driving a small boat take his hand away from the motor to light a cigarette many years ago. The boat took a hard turn and out he went. It was wintertime. I had the boat in neutral in three seconds, watching his swimming about ten feet to the boat. We went ashore and I built a fire immediately for him. He asked that I not tell anyone. Ten years passed and he told the family about it. I was free to speak about it, but was able to keep our secret those ten years. I would have kept it thirty.
I am not surprised to find it written above more than once the word "capacity". Many of us fail to acknowledge we have a capacity for things.
Knowing we have that capacity helps us to endure the little voice telling us we have not done what we should, or could, do.
I am glad this word has come to light in this specific conversation, and not merely for our own minds' sakes; we should not only recognize we have capacities, but should also embrace the fact others have capacities, too.
Each person is simply not necessarily able to give us what we want or need. Knowing that helps to better understand some of the things we see, or have seen, in the past as "shortcomings" may actually be the most or the best there is to be, or has been, offered at the time.
I would actually feel badly should someone that thinks of me as a true friend
cry in their deepest sorrows thinking they had not been all they could have been as a friend to me. I would rather they relish in the thought they were ever my friend in the first place, for I let so few people in deeply.

 

[Faye]

Wow, there is a lot of writing in this thread.

Do you ever feel lonely? If yes, you want friends. Why did you make this thread? If you feel lonely but you don't want any specific friends, then your issue is that you cannot accept some aspect of others (and therefore yourself), which forces you into a corner (metaphorically speaking).

 

[Fireflies-free]

Reply to FA:

I fully appreciate that INFJs have extremely high standards for what we look for in friendship and what we expect from and give to friendships. I'm not implying that I don't have this problem because I absolutely do. People that live up to our ideals are so rare for us to come by - I guess it is easy to get despondent at times. I wouldn't give up looking though. I've had a number of amazing friendships. They were not perfect people at all - but perfect for the type of friendship that I value.

My guess is that part of the problem stems from our intuition. We somehow understand people very quickly. Maybe we decide too quickly that they won't be able to offer us the type of friendship that we want? It sounds terribly judgmental, and maybe it is. I don't like the idea of being judgmental but it's difficult not to do this when you can practically foresee how the relationship would turn out. But then, do we maybe read too much into people? What if we are actually completely wrong? I guess I just trust my intuition because I've found that it's almost always correct.

Unfortunately, friendships rarely last forever because of the different paths that people take (except maybe in a marriage because your life evolves together). I think that's really hard for us to deal with. The thought of losing friends is heart-breaking to me but I've moved around a bit so it's happened

 

[Fireflies-free]

Wow, there is a lot of writing in this thread.

Do you ever feel lonely? If yes, you want friends. Why did you make this thread? If you feel lonely but you don't want any specific friends, then your issue is that you cannot accept some aspect of others (and therefore yourself), which forces you into a corner (metaphorically speaking).

Nicely said. I completely agree with this. As I said above, nobody is perfect.

 

[jn56uytrx]

I don't like the idea of being judgmental but it's difficult not to do this when you can practically foresee how the relationship would turn out. But then, do we maybe read too much into people? What if we are actually completely wrong? I guess I just trust my intuition because I've found that it's almost always correct.

As it concerns judgment about other people, how can you be so certain that it's been correct rather than that you simply saw what you expected to see?

I don't want to sound challenging, but I saw some of myself in your comment and I've been forced to consider this question myself. I've realized that some of my "foresight" is simply just a stubbornness about what I'm willing to acknowledge seeing.

 

[Carol]

I befriend extroverts [in general] easier. However, after a period of time, I tend to find them annoying and obsessive / attaching to the point that I decide to ignore them. They decide to rant about whatever problems they have to me. I am usually not particularly intrigued by them, just concerned -- they usually see me as a person whom is cognizant. I do not find harmony in these type of relationships.

The people I surround myself around - I do not even try and strengthen my bond with them. I always compare my abstract definitions of friendship with my real ones. Stimulating conversations seldom occur.

Do I want friends ultimately? Yes and more of no.
My nihilism makes me slowly consume myself.
Loyalty and harmony in a friendship is extremely important to me.
I want to be able to have an emotional connection -- which is why I have yet to have a close friendship.

 

[just me]

Wow, Carol; are you from Antarctica or is that fun?
Reason I asked is I wanted to know how many people you have daily access to. Just curious after reading your post.....and interested.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I was explaining this to this group of teens I meet up with, ages 13-18, and they didn't understand.

We were talking about how to deal with friends who get into drugs, if we should hang on and try to help them get better or stop hanging out with them.

I offered the solution to cut them out completely: they are lying, they aren't the people they were when I first met them, and I see no point in putting myself in possibly legal troubles ( ex: someone mentioned that they sat in the room while their friend smoked pot, but they didn't smoke pot. The cops busted them and she was almost sent to court even though she hadn't smoked it. I have had friends who smoked pot, but I have NEVER been in the same room when they were doing it. I view it as stupid in many ways if you are person who doesn't smoke pot.). Someone in the group mentioned that it's hard to leave 'true' or 'best' friends.

I was baffled. I didn't understand that concept. They said that sometimes when they were hanging out with friends, in order to not lose their friendship, they would compromise themselves and do things that they knew they didn't want to do to be 'cool'. I've always knew that this happens, but I shocked that my peers felt this way. I thought I knew these people well. I'm able to so easily [ compared to what they act like would be a gruesome, nearly impossible ordeal] cut people out of my life that I don't blink an eye about it anymore. I figure, 'Eh? Oh well.'

Recently I've decided I have no need for friendships, and will only be interested in a person if I see they have a complexity to them. I usually only prefer introverts because my seriousness I have noticed can effect extroverts in a very negative way. Kids my age don't think it's okay to joke around with me, because they are afraid of what might happen even though I'm completely harmless. I've even been ignored on several occasions just because they aren't comfortable dealing with me.

Do I want friends?
No.

I think the reasons many people comprise themselves is they are afraid to be alone.

Where as an INFJ knows that feeling better than being with someone.

We're ok with alone.

A good friend is someone who cares about what happens to you, and shows it. It's someone you want to be with without having to worry about being awkward or hiding your true self.

agreed

Sadly finding good friends takes a lot of effort. And even then they can and will disappoint and hurt you.


It seems like the longer I'm alive the more friends move away or move on from. No matter how hard I try to hold onto someone special they seem to rip themselves from me.

For an extroverted person this may be ok. But not for me. People I consider true friends are so hard to come by when they tear away from you loose a little bit of yourself.

So I can understand not wanting to have friends. Because its so easy to get hurt.

It feels like I should just say screw it. I know I have to keep trying and keeping moving but god i'm sick of people leaving me.

when it seems like others have friends who do great things for them or help them when ever. It seems like mine hurt me more than help.

 

[Final]

It seems like the longer I'm alive the more friends move away or move on from. No matter how hard I try to hold onto someone special they seem to rip themselves from me.

...and that's OK with me. For example, this year I've become great friends with some seniors I know. I'm a sophomore. At the end of this year, they're all going either to grad school or to the real world. While I have no idea with whom I'll hang out next year, I do not feel apprehensive. I am able to enjoy my time with them.

With my first girlfriend, I had the problem where I was afraid of what would happen if she and I went to different colleges. This fear took a toll on our relationship and my sanity. After that experience, I now live enough in the moment that it is enjoyable, making sure never to betray myself.

 

[Fireflies-free]

As it concerns judgment about other people, how can you be so certain that it's been correct rather than that you simply saw what you expected to see?

I don't want to sound challenging, but I saw some of myself in your comment and I've been forced to consider this question myself. I've realized that some of my "foresight" is simply just a stubbornness about what I'm willing to acknowledge seeing.

Challenge away! I appreciate the input. What I mean is that I've learnt to trust my intuition. For example, when I've given the person the benefit of the doubt (in an attempt against being judgmental), I've always found that my first instinct was still correct. You could be right though, maybe I still simply saw what I expected!

I really do try and keep an open mind - but I find that I then end up with many friends, and nobody that I really relate to..it feels "fake" and this goes against what I want or need - I completely relate to what Blind Bandit siad:

I think the reasons many people comprise themselves is they are afraid to be alone.

Where as an INFJ knows that feeling better than being with someone.

We're ok with alone.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Wow, there is a lot of writing in this thread.

Do you ever feel lonely? If yes, you want friends. Why did you make this thread? If you feel lonely but you don't want any specific friends, then your issue is that you cannot accept some aspect of others (and therefore yourself), which forces you into a corner (metaphorically speaking).

I started this thread because I don't want to accept my own cynicism or hypocrisy.

 

[just me]

I don't know if you should be so hard on yourself. I will say basing friendships on your relationship with Jesus or God is going to be a tough act to follow and mighty big shoes to fill, though I think I see what you really mean.

 

[arbygil]

I have one really good, really intimate friend (I like to call her my anam cara friend), and we've been friends for nearly twenty years. I have acquaintances but she's the only one I run to when things are falling apart around me.

I think everyone needs at least one good friend. Why? Because we get self-absorbed, selfish, and downright surly without one. It can take time to find one, but it's worth it. My friend is actually closer to me than I am to my mother.