Ground Zero | INFJ Forum

Ground Zero

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Stu, Aug 19, 2010.

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  1. I am proud that the President reminded the nation that freedom of Religion applies to Muslims.

    20 vote(s)
    74.1%
  2. I am ashamed/annoyed that the President thinks it is OK to have a Muslim anything with in ten blocks

    5 vote(s)
    18.5%
  3. I, as usual, could less about anything remotely political.

    2 vote(s)
    7.4%
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  1. Stu

    Stu Constipated
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    It is simple, you are either proud that the President reminded the nation that freedom of Religion applies to Muslims...

    Or your ashamed/annoyed that the President thinks it is OK to have a Muslim anything with in ten blocks of the most devastating attack on our nation carried out by self proclaimed Jihadists.

    Or as usually you care less about anything remotely political
     
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  2. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    I say all religions welcome, or none. preferably none IMO, but for the sake of fairness lets forget what i want.
     
  3. Solongo

    Solongo Well-known member

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    I was there at 9/11. My school was a block away. I don't think they should build a mosque at a place that so many innocent Americans died by terrorists. it should be remembered as a sacred burial ground for those that lost their lives; not a political statement of religious freedom.
     
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  4. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Imagine if they built a memorial in Kansas City and refused to allow crosses and other Christian symbolism... and said not in our graveyard... correct me if I am wrong but the people who died in the 9/11 attacks were quite varied, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Athiests, etc etc... why exclude 1? Is that what we are? Excluders?

    As a person against religion in general I find any religious crap at the site offensive as it wasnt Islam that was the problem, but the barbaric notion that religion is more important than human lives. Pathetic semantics and political pandering.

    All or none. We are all americans or only white anglos are. Lets make a decision and stick to it.
     
  5. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Pretty much what I think.
     
  6. DimensionX

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    Actually I kinda find it amusing, it's like a biiiiig warning sign, you try this shit again, and this'll be you, symbolically.

    But I don't care, fair enough if they build it there, doesn't bother me, though I can imagine it isn't seen as an acceptable thing in a lot of peoples eyes.

    aaaand I actually couldn't vote.....I'm not proud, I don't feel ashamed or annoyed and I do actually care about politics....sooo....*shrugs*
     
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    #6 DimensionX, Aug 19, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  7. MindYourHead

    MindYourHead Courage doesn't always roar.

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    I'm always astonished at how the most clear statement can be construed as something else by the opposing party.
    Both parties do this to each other.
    He never endorsed it, or said it was a great place to build it.

    He just said they have the right to do so.
     
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  8. sassafras

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    9/11 was a great tragedy, yes, but it was orchestrated by terrorists.

    The problem here seems to be that the words "muslim," "mosque" and "koran" are being used interchangeably with the term "terrorist." These elements are circumstantial; there should be no equal sign between Muslim American and 9/11. That is as terrible as equating all pedophiles with homosexuals and/or Catholic priests, or all drug addicts as criminals. Some do not equate with the whole.

    I find it despicable that this is being used as political fodder between the two parties (though not at all surprised). In terms of voting, it's a damn if you do, damned if you don't sorta thing happening.

    Frankly, I'm glad that, being Canadian, I don't have to vote on this.
     
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    #8 sassafras, Aug 19, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
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  9. athenian200

    athenian200 Protocol Droid
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    I really don't see the problem. It's not as if they're building it on the site of the World Trade Center. If they were, I could understand why people were outraged. I don't understand the outrage over people converting an abandoned, unused building into a Mosque. The fact that it was damaged during the infamous World Trade Center attacks is irrelevant to all but the most unreasonable people.

    Besides, I think that freedom of religion, and not holding an entire religion responsible for the actions of a few, is far more important than any personal feelings of disrespect or dishonor.

    Muslims are different from us, and some of their traditions seem backwards to us now. But that doesn't make them bad people.

    They might be Muslims, but they're still Americans. The attacks on that day probably upset them as well, and doubtless they suffered along with us. They have as much right to be there as anyone else.
     
  10. corvidae

    corvidae ohai internets
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    We shouldn't build Catholic churches near preschools. That's an insult to the victims of sexual abuse by priests. Think of the children!

    /sarcasm

    Many terrorists are Muslim, but very few Muslims consider themselves terrorists.

    Many child abusers are religious figures, but very few religious figures are child abusers.

    I'm an atheist (more or less), and it baffles me that this is controversial at all. Then again, about 10% of my high school was Muslim, as opposed to 0.6% of America as a whole, so maybe I'm just more used to Islam...
     
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  11. the

    the Si master race.
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    Couldnt we just have a choice that says "I am ashamed of our president."? I just dont like much of anything about him.
     
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  12. the

    the Si master race.
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    I heard that joke on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart yesterday. haha
     
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  13. just me

    just me GONE

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    Religious tolerance should be two-sided. I say let them build a church and synagogue in Mecca; see how tolerant they are about that. Then, maybe I could look the other way. Not in the mood for a fight, so please forgive me if that offends anyone.
     
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  14. the

    the Si master race.
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    Just give it back to the:

    The Abenaki tribe
    The Cayuga tribe
    The Erie tribe
    The Laurentian tribes
    The Mohawk tribe
    The Mohican tribe (including Wappingers)
    The Mohegan tribe (including Montauk and Shinnecock)
    The Munsee Delaware tribe
    The Oneida tribe
    The Onondaga tribe
    The Poospatuck/Unkechaug tribe
    The Seneca tribe
     
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  15. freybell

    freybell Community Member

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    I agree.

    Thanks to the media though, people have a really hard time with not equating the two.
     
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  16. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    People who are against the Mosque generally hold these two views..

    1. There is only one Islam. That Islam subjugates women and leads to terrorists who bomb buildings.
    2. Building a mosque near Ground Zero is seen as a win by the terrorists, because it signifies that where Islamic terrorists attack, Islam shall rise and conquer.

    Either one of these is an interesting discussion in itself.

    From what I understand, the Islamic terrorists are seen by most of the Islamic world like abortion clinic bombers and the Westboro Baptist Church are seen by much of the Christian world.

    The second point is more complicated, because it could actually be said that America has won if it builds a mosque at Ground Zero. It says that despite our pain we still stand by our principles, one of which being freedom of religion. If we were to discriminate against Muslims then it could be said that we are turning our backs on our identity and the terrorists have then won.
     
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  17. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    It sounds more like you are saying that religious intolerance should be two sided. Just because a good share of the Islamic world does not believe in freedom of religion does not mean America should turn its back on the principle.
     
  18. IndigoSensor

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    I can't think of a rational legal argument out of this, however it does beg the question "...why there? Of all places. There is something called social sensitivity and social order ya know". Bad move on their part for not having, or disregarding forsight into that, but if they want to put it there, fine, it's public property.
     
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  19. just me

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    Sounds can be deceiving. I listened to two friends almost get into an argument the other day while each was telling the other what he(the other) was saying. Neither understood the other.

    My feelings go way back before 9/11. Please do not put words into my mouth. I do admire your kind questioning, though. Tolerance for a religion with intolerance, regarding building worship sites, does not add up to anything more than problems down the road. I would much rather see tolerance two-sided. Not one church or synagogue is allowed in Mecca, their holy city, or the country it is in.....something about respect, yet they show none for us regarding this.

    Nothing we do will ever repay what we did to the redman.

    I did not vote, as I did not see a proper spot representing my feelings.
     
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    #19 just me, Aug 20, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  20. corvidae

    corvidae ohai internets
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    Saudi Arabia does not have our First Amendment, let alone our Bill of Rights. They may be a theocracy, but we are not.
     
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