Fe versus Fi

[acd]

I feel like I already do this all the time. The problem is that it is in social situations in which I struggle to keep my head above water, because in those situations if I am being bombarded, it's as though I can't defend myself. I suppose I just need to prepare better defense mechanisms- the problem is that I feel like I have none- because of Fe and wanting to gain approval from others. I think that's the thing that I really dislike about Fe the most. I feel like people with Fi are more concerned with themselves than others- at least emotionally, and are therefore less likely to run into this problem of wanting to please others. They also seem to be more aware of their emotions, where I literally have a hard time defining mine, asides from being confused.

Usually this happens in big group settings, where I find myself unable to stand behind my life decisions- especially if I am being put upon by the majority of the group, it's Fe wanting to please everyone and create harmony- that seems to diminish my ability to stand up for myself.....

I hope this clarifies what I meant.

The only defense mechanism is to define and solidify your boundaries and then communicate them to others.
So it sounds like you will have to find another way to get in touch with yourself and your own needs.

Your problem is not Fe. There are Fe doms who have personal boundaries and let others know where they are..
It sounds like you are afraid of being alone and unwanted. Like you value others above yourself, when in reality, you should view others as your equals.


I'm not a counselor... so when I say this, I mean you should look into it and think about it--I'm not trying to diagnose you.
But maybe you should look into co-dependence if you have not already. Not being able to have your own life decisions in a group sounds very serious to me.

Fi people can have the same problem you do. It's not just an Fe thing. I think this is something that transcends cognitive functions.
Someone told me, "You can't help anyone unless you have helped yourself; you can't give something you don't have."

 

[knight in battle]

Usually this happens in big group settings, where I find myself unable to stand behind my life decisions- especially if I am being put upon by the majority of the group, it's Fe wanting to please everyone and create harmony- that seems to diminish my ability to stand up for myself.....

I'm glad you know what your life decisions are. That's being aware of yourself. Now, you just have to decide if you want to abide by a group's apparent consensus, suggest a new course of action, or leave the group for a long time (or forever).

It's easy to want harmony until it gets irritating, and then you'll really know that harmony with your self may be more important from time to time. Maybe Fe mimics Ne in this way, sort of wishy washy, being pulled along by a force that seems greater than yourself. I have a tendency to go along with the movement or direction of a group usually, so I tend not to show up unless I plan to get pulled along by the group's dynamics.

 

[jupiterswoon]

The only defense mechanism is to define and solidify your boundaries and then communicate them to others.
So it sounds like you will have to find another way to get in touch with yourself and your own needs.

Your problem is not Fe. There are Fe doms who have personal boundaries and let others know where they are..
It sounds like you are afraid of being alone and unwanted. Like you value others above yourself, when in reality, you should view others as your equals.


I'm not a counselor... so when I say this, I mean you should look into it and think about it--I'm not trying to diagnose you.
But maybe you should look into co-dependence if you have not already. Not being able to have your own life decisions in a group sounds very serious to me.

Fi people can have the same problem you do. It's not just an Fe thing. I think this is something that transcends cognitive functions.
Someone told me, "You can't help anyone unless you have helped yourself; you can't give something you don't have."

Yeah- I think you've hit at more of what the core of the problem is here.

I would say that Fe is typically more likely to be people-pleasing, than Fi, but at the same time, I think the core of the issue is fear of being rejected, abandoned, etc.

This also typically doesn't happen with friends, it happens with family, particularly my mother. This also does not happen all the time, it happens once in awhile- rarely. It's those rare situations I was looking to solve. I don't know, I get the feeling now that I probably shouldn't have posted about this thread. I guess I'm not explaining myself well enough.

 

[knight in battle]

This also typically doesn't happen with friends, it happens with family, particularly my mother. This also does not happen all the time, it happens once in awhile- rarely. It's those rare situations I was looking to solve. I don't know, I get the feeling now that I probably shouldn't have posted about this thread. I guess I'm not explaining myself well enough.

lol. Second guessing in the context of a discussion thread? So Fe. You're doing well by bringing it up.

Here's how I think people tend to advise Fe's: You mimic Fi by empathizing with yourself and asking yourself what you're feeling. What acd said about writing letters to yourself is a great way to clarify, just like you decided to process this through writing this thread. I didn't believe it, either, but I realized that I have been empathizing with myself for many years, by journaling and showing myself how I'm feeling. When I think back on it, I say, "Wow, this is how I actually feel about these people and situations. Now I can act on it."

It's courageous of you to say "the core issue is fear of being abandoned." But that is so cool, because everyone is afraid of it, they just don't verbalize it like Fe's do. Fe can mimic Fi for this situation, too: You probably enjoy supporting others who feel rejected or abandoned. Now it's time to support yourself by accepting and not abandoning yourself. It may go against your grain, but it works. Accepting and being with yourself will mean you will have to abandon others in some situations in order to be consistent with your life decisions.

It'll be an adventure.

 

[Untitled]

Don't worry about it.

 

[Dreaming a Challenge]

I feel like I already do this all the time. The problem is that it is in social situations in which I struggle to keep my head above water, because in those situations if I am being bombarded, it's as though I can't defend myself. I suppose I just need to prepare better defense mechanisms- the problem is that I feel like I have none- because of Fe and wanting to gain approval from others. I think that's the thing that I really dislike about Fe the most. I feel like people with Fi are more concerned with themselves than others- at least emotionally, and are therefore less likely to run into this problem of wanting to please others. They also seem to be more aware of their emotions, where I literally have a hard time defining mine, asides from being confused.

Usually this happens in big group settings, where I find myself unable to stand behind my life decisions- especially if I am being put upon by the majority of the group, it's Fe wanting to please everyone and create harmony- that seems to diminish my ability to stand up for myself.....

I hope this clarifies what I meant.

perhaps you should look at the social situation,and find out why you are being "bombarded"
What are the motives behind their actions, perhaps your with the wrong kind of people.maybe you're acting inappropriately thus providing your self with some thing that can actually be changed although you may not be able to change how you feel you can always control your own concious actions and decsicions. Thus leaving you with nothing to be unhappy about because you are your own master.

To elaborate on how I see your predictiment every action has a reaction, how you act prompts certain mostly predictable consequences that leave no one but your self responsible excluding abuse, wars, generally and crisis capable of breaking the human egg shell ego.

 

[jupiterswoon]

lol. Second guessing in the context of a discussion thread? So Fe. You're doing well by bringing it up.

Here's how I think people tend to advise Fe's: You mimic Fi by empathizing with yourself and asking yourself what you're feeling. What acd said about writing letters to yourself is a great way to clarify, just like you decided to process this through writing this thread. I didn't believe it, either, but I realized that I have been empathizing with myself for many years, by journaling and showing myself how I'm feeling. When I think back on it, I say, "Wow, this is how I actually feel about these people and situations. Now I can act on it."

It's courageous of you to say "the core issue is fear of being abandoned." But that is so cool, because everyone is afraid of it, they just don't verbalize it like Fe's do. Fe can mimic Fi for this situation, too: You probably enjoy supporting others who feel rejected or abandoned. Now it's time to support yourself by accepting and not abandoning yourself. It may go against your grain, but it works. Accepting and being with yourself will mean you will have to abandon others in some situations in order to be consistent with your life decisions.

It'll be an adventure.

Genius Knight in Battle- mimicking Fi- genius!

 

[jupiterswoon]

perhaps you should look at the social situation,and find out why you are being "bombarded"
What are the motives behind their actions, perhaps your with the wrong kind of people.maybe you're acting inappropriately thus providing your self with some thing that can actually be changed although you may not be able to change how you feel you can always control your own concious actions and decsicions. Thus leaving you with nothing to be unhappy about because you are your own master.

To elaborate on how I see your predictiment every action has a reaction, how you act prompts certain mostly predictable consequences that leave no one but your self responsible excluding abuse, wars, generally and crisis capable of breaking the human egg shell ego.

I think what I am going to do now is completely rephrase this post-

When I am in my family setting- a large group of traditionalists who project certain standards and feelings onto me, I have a hard time standing up for myself- because I try to harmonize the situation. The problem is that what they say subconsciously affects me, and it takes me awhile to process their projections. I'd like to be in that situation and defend myself, but since they are very sensitive, I'm afraid to hurt them or dramatize the ussue- but afterwards, esp if they very strongly project their feelings onto me, it leaves me lethargic and depressed because I feel like I've let them down- I care more about their feelings than the fact that they are affronting my existence. If I was Fi, I feel like I'd be less likely to feel this way and more likely to express my feelings of contention. I don't want to cut that family out of my life, but its slmost like Zi have to

 

[jupiterswoon]

I think now that I've explained this better it makes more sense in thr context of Fe versus Fi.

 

[Dreaming a Challenge]

I know it goes against us but I feel the same way with my familia, a lot of it is just because my parents are immature pressuring and just generally irrating. If you're an adult or matutre person you can always walk away from a situtation, you sjouldn't have to or be expected to be they're emotional sponge.

others have said this but im going to beat the boundary horse a little more with the making some shovel.

 

[grt$5vb]

Guess what? You're a badass, and you don't need to prove your stance or worth to anyone, much less people who don't respect you. Some people just need to be right and they love to argue. You could just smile and nod. Certain folks love a reaction and thinking they've gotten the best of you. I wouldn't even give them the satisfaction.

 

[Tactical Panda]

Put pen to paper and then look back at the person looking back up at you from within the ink?

 

[Soulful]

I think what I am going to do now is completely rephrase this post-

When I am in my family setting- a large group of traditionalists who project certain standards and feelings onto me, I have a hard time standing up for myself- because I try to harmonize the situation. The problem is that what they say subconsciously affects me, and it takes me awhile to process their projections. I'd like to be in that situation and defend myself, but since they are very sensitive, I'm afraid to hurt them or dramatize the ussue- but afterwards, esp if they very strongly project their feelings onto me, it leaves me lethargic and depressed because I feel like I've let them down- I care more about their feelings than the fact that they are affronting my existence. If I was Fi, I feel like I'd be less likely to feel this way and more likely to express my feelings of contention. I don't want to cut that family out of my life, but its slmost like Zi have to

If you don't mind a response coming after the discussion seems to have quieted down, it sounds to me like you hit the nail on the head with these statements.

I've suffered the desire to harmonize myself to the environment as well, and speaking personally, it doesn't work. It's painful and it precludes the possibility of having one's own boundaries. What I ended up doing (and still do) is finding ways to cope with the pain of feeling alone and generally cut (that's how it feels, like I've been cut) when I'm in a social environment where such harmony doesn't exist. I found out I had to learn to be okay with that kind of pain in order to stop defining myself through other people and entirely abdicating my sense of identity. It seems like perhaps what you need to do is establish your own identity and ground yourself in it. It's possible that doing that doing so may simultaneously bring to surface issues of isolation and loneliness, which you may also then have to cope with.

It doesn't behoove us to live through other people, and the effort we take to please others goes unnoticed because no one should have to take that much effort to step out of their skin and appease another's world. We're each responsible for ourselves and ourselves only (unless we have dependants, of course). And it is possible to find ways to relate to others witout sacrificing or losing yourself. You can be your own person and still share your world with another and exist in harmony with another. Perhaps it is also time to ask whether they are willing to extend themselves as much to you as you do to them. Establish healthy boundaries and then find others with healthy boundaries. It works wonders.

Where Ti will come in handy is using reasoning to affirm your boundaries in the moment. Decide what you consider acceptable and unacceptable behaviour (ahead of time, in the privacy of your own company or that of a therapist, etc.), decide what you appreciate and don't appreciate, and stick to that when communicating with others. Learn to recognize if others are asking you to take care of their feelings, and tactfully but firmly (as much as is appropriate or you can do so in the moment), learn to say no. Also, stop offering to take responsibility for others' feelings. Yes, stop.

You may need to learn how to be your own person that doesn't solely derive from other people's opinions of you or their interactions with you. Decide for yourself who you want to be. It may feel strange doing this if you don't know where to draw those conclusions from (are they right, are they wrong, how do I know they're any better than anything else if no one has verified them?) -- it takes practice, just keep at it and use your process of reasoning to validate yourself and what you are doing. You have the right to be who you want to be based solely on your own process -- no one else has to affect this. Don't worry about taking care of others so much, they're strong enough to do it for themselves. And if they demand that you do it for them, then they may not be the healthiest people to surround yourself by. So perhaps you do need to develop Fi if this is what this is. Anyone can do this, but it may mean letting go of certain coping mechanisms you now possess and utilize.