[INFJ] - Do you value being loved or being understood higher? | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

[INFJ] Do you value being loved or being understood higher?

Barnabas said:
Love isn't an emotion, it's not about getting good feels or even giving good feels. Love is a constant acting living devotion, it supersedes everything else.

I can be angry, but I still have to love, I can be tired, hungry cold and wet, but I still have to love.
I can be happy and joyous, and but I shouldn't be those things outside of love.

I think my lack of sleep is affecting me, I can't seem to find the right words to adequately describe what I'm trying to communicate.

We are created things of love, by love, to love, for love. It bothers me deeply to find so many people who don't understand what love is, what it means to love and it screas me that so many of these people are Christians.
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Sounds like duty or purpose but why would I care about those things if not for feels?

If not for feels there's no reason to stick to a moral system. If it's all about cold purpose then why shouldn't I switch modes and do whatever happens to be pragmatic?

No emotion = no devotion from where I sit. If I can't connect to it on a level that I understand then it is useless to me - or at the very least has no reason to be preferred over something else. Moreover if you can't really explain what it is, then how do you know you're actually doing it.
 
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sprinkles said:
Also I find it ironic that I'm spending all this energy in an effort to get you people to understand me. That should be some evidence in itself.
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Haha. I think it's typical. You say you value being understood. Thus it follows logically that you put in energy and effort to get people to understand you.
But it worked. I understand your point of view a lot better than I did at first :)
 
sprinkles said:
Sounds like duty or purpose but why would I care about those things if not for feels?

If not for feels there's no reason to stick to a moral system. If it's all about cold purpose then why shouldn't I switch modes and do whatever happens to be pragmatic?

No emotion = no devotion from where I sit. If I can't connect to it on a level that I understand then it is useless to me - or at the very least has no reason to be preferred over something else. Moreover if you can't really explain what it is, then how do you know you're actually doing it.
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Most people don't stick to a moral system because it makes them feel good, at least none of the major world religions do. Secular hedonism comes to mind, hedonism get's a bum rap mostly cause it's tied to sexual perversion but that a gross over simplification of the philosophy.

And that's not say that love doesn't or can't make you feel good, it can but it also often calls for sacrifice which to most people is unpleasant.

I know what love is, and on a good day I can be as elegant as a piano, on a bad day I'm closer to recorder, right now I'm a four year old bnaging on his moms cooking wear with a wooden spoon. Love requires the piano.

sprinkles said:
I don't understand you.
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And I thought we had something special.
 
Barnabas said:
Most people don't stick to a moral system because it makes them feel good, at least none of the major world religions do. Secular hedonism comes to mind, hedonism get's a bum rap mostly cause it's tied to sexual perversion but that a gross over simplification of the philosophy.

And that's not say that love doesn't or can't make you feel good, it can but it also often calls for sacrifice which to most people is unpleasant.

I know what love is, and on a good day I can be as elegant as a piano, on a bad day I'm closer to recorder, right now I'm a four year old bnaging on his moms cooking wear with a wooden spoon. Love requires the piano.
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Morality isn't about feeling good but it is about feeling something. Otherwise why do it? I'd like you to actually give me a reason that does not depend on a feeling or emotion.

And I thought we had something special.
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We do. But I still don't understand you. At least not at this juncture.
 
[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]
Also feelings are really complex and good ones aren't the only desirable feelings. (and some times we act to avoid feelings such as pain or fear)

Good example is working very hard, and feeling tired and sore after. Maybe even aggravated or frustrated if you had to work with some difficult people. Ultimately though you went in for a feeling. Perhaps the feeling of having accomplished your goal, which can be positive even when you're full of otherwise bad feelings for the moment.
 
sprinkles said:
Morality isn't about feeling good but it is about feeling something. Otherwise why do it? I'd like you to actually give me a reason that does not depend on a feeling or emotion.


We do. But I still don't understand you. At least not at this juncture.
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That's easy, it the right thing to do.
 
sprinkles said:
And why should we do the right thing? Moreover, why are the consequences of doing otherwise significant in any way?
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This is going to get circular really fast.
 
Barnabas said:
This is going to get circular really fast.
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Only if you try to avoid the conclusion. But I'm trying to get you to see the point rather than simply telling you it is so without any kind of proof or explanation. Just really answer the question and you should see.
 
sprinkles said:
Only if you try to avoid the conclusion. But I'm trying to get you to see the point rather than simply telling you it is so without any kind of proof or explanation. Just really answer the question and you should see.
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well the problem is we coming from different views, I believe that doing the right thing it's own reason. I don't do what I believe is right for some kind of emotional reaction or stimuli, because my emotions and stimuli can change but what is right doesn't.
 
Barnabas said:
well the problem is we coming from different views, I believe that doing the right thing it's own reason. I don't do what I believe is right for some kind of emotional reaction or stimuli, because my emotions and stimuli can change but what is right doesn't.
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You're telling me you don't feel a compulsion to do right? That you do it based solely on reason and you don't get ANY emotional kickbacks at all?

Edit:
Also when something looks circular like that, it's usually the first sign that it isn't the true reason or conclusion.
 
sprinkles said:
You're telling me you don't feel a compulsion to do right? That you do it based solely on reason and you don't get ANY emotional kickbacks at all?

Edit:
Also when something looks circular like that, it's usually the first sign that it isn't the true reason or conclusion.
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Of course I get a response emotionally, but my emotional responses don't dictate my actions nor do they have drive them.
 
Are the terms defined in such a way that the question isn't a false dichotomy where each is being used in a manner synonymously with the other? It seems like a false dilemma to me.

If true love includes understanding and true understanding includes love then at what point does one preclude the other, i.e. One may love another, but not understand them; one may understand another, but not love them?

Then follows a bunch of sematics regarding what 'love' or 'understanding' means and whether or not it's even possible for one to preclude the other.
 
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This actually becomes a very nice window or perspective on what constitutes love and understanding both for different individuals here.

I do not think it is that wrong to prefer one over the other, but I think we all agree that we (realistically, without the confines of the thread) want some amount of both?

I do not think one is more....righteous, or true, or better than the other; because please; the existence of manipulation and pushiness both proves than love and understanding can be used wrongly. And having just one does not give a personal fulfillment or happiness or a sense of meaning or help or even the privilege of solitude and being left alone.
 
And I also express my sympathies for [MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] for the heat you received .__.

If I can be a busybody, I think the people here as a collective (including perhaps, me) are dangerously getting to the state of 'my perspective is better than yours and you are wrong / see my way' and.....

I do not think it is necessarily true, but that is just me.
 
I would choose being loved, all the way. I will talk my mind, even though my audience might not understand a word, but I can not be loved without someone loving me.
 
For me, I cannot choose one without the other; they go hand in hand. And I mean being truly understood, truly loved deep down within even the darkest parts of my soul. Not just having my POV understood, or loved because its obligatory (i.e. familial)
I do not believe unconditional love exists. I have seen mothers turn their backs on their children, I have seen babies abandoned and have had men die in my arms in the ER. I have seen people living in streets wearing threadbare clothing in the dead of winter who give what little food they have to stray dogs when other people just pass them by like they are invisible. I have seen too much of true human nature to believe in unconditional love.
But if it did exist, perhaps I would choose that.
 
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