[INFJ] Do you value being loved or being understood higher?

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]

Also if somebody understands me and manages to not do those things on the list, they're likely a psychopath anyway.

Without understanding you don't actually know what you're loving. It's like loading up a shotgun with love pellets and hoping you hit something. Compassionate qualities tend to follow understanding even if people aren't particularly affectionate for you, because they have some degree of empathy.

Additionally through understanding someone you learn what needs to be forgiven, how that person needs hope, what needs to be endured and so on. Without understanding your list becomes a mere set of ideals with no actual target to practice them on, and if you do try to practice them without understanding, you do so in ignorance.

 

[sprinkles]

Also I would argue that love without understanding is love without interpersonal connection. It is indiscriminate. It might as well be automated. Assembly line love with kindness dispensers, drive-thru confessionals and autonomous forgiveness bots. New and improved lovebot 2000.

When it gets to that point it's like just give me the goods and let me get on with my life.

 

[HunterO]

Understood. Lots of people love me for the wrong reasons. I rather be understood.

 

[TinyBubbles]

isn't there a saying that goes "to understand all is to forgive all" ? and forgiveness is closely related to love..

regardless i'd rather be loved (and love). i don't really expect people to understand me

 

[sprinkles]

See this is why I like cats. And robots. My preference goes something like cats > robots > goldfish > humans.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=12656]Elegant Winter[/MENTION]

Thumb me down all you want but it's true.

The ONE thing that sets humans apart from other kinds of animals and even machines is the ability to relate directly. If that ability isn't being used then it's a waste. But that's just how shallow and empty society has become I guess.

If you don't relate then you're not using the one thing that puts you above. If you don't relate then you can be replaced by something more convenient that doesn't pretend to be more than it is.

Edit:
Also let's not forget that I'm not the one who started this. I feel so fucking loved with all these lectures and thumbs down.

 

[Elis]

If we see love as feelings of affection, and not a necessity for acceptance then I think I'd go with being understood.

Maybe I'm putting this in a weird context, but if being understood necessitates that I will not be loved then I'd pick understood any day. The knowledge that people would only like me because of them not knowing who I am would kill me. I'd rather live alone than such a pretentious life, or live with people who can accept me for who I am even if they won't ever love me.

 

[sprinkles]

Love and understanding can't be separated. One doesn't come without some degree of the other. The question is "Which do you value higher?", not "Which would you have completely and the other not at all?" You took it to an extreme and described an absurdity in order to provoke someone. Your post was a provocation and nothing more. That's why I disapprove.

You're wrong because that post is actually what I think. Just because it isn't what YOU think doesn't mean I'm intentionally provoking anyone. I wasn't.

None the less even if I agree with you, I still value understanding more and I should be allowed to do that without having people get in my face. Did you see me starting to tell other people what they should prefer, what love is, what they do or do not understand or want? No.

Telling me what I should prefer or reconsider is just about THE quickest way to piss me off and cause me to go to extremes.

 

[Erlian]

Being loved but not understood is not worth a lot.
"I love you and try to help you, but fail because I don't understand you"

Being understood but not loved is even worse.
"I know how to help you, but I don't give a f8ck."

I'd prefer to be loved and understood!
But if I had to pick, I'd go for being loved.

People who didn't particularly love me did a lot more for me than people who supposedly did during that time. Reevaluate love when you're fucking starving and ready to lick boots for anything at all.

I have to say that being loved by others isn't always what its cracked up to be. I've been homeless too and my so-called family, who you expect to reach out to you, really did not help much at all.

Really? You call that love? In my book, they didn't love you.

 

[Elegant Winter]

You're wrong because that post is actually what I think. Just because it isn't what YOU think doesn't mean I'm intentionally provoking anyone. I wasn't.

None the less even if I agree with you, I still value understanding more and I should be allowed to do that without having people get in my face. Did you see me starting to tell other people what they should prefer, what love is, what they do or do not understand or want? No.

Telling me what I should prefer or reconsider is just about THE quickest way to piss me off and cause me to go to extremes.

You're right. I'm sorry..

 

[sprinkles]

Being loved but not understood is not worth a lot.
"I love you and try to help you, but fail because I don't understand you"

Being understood but not loved is even worse.
"I know how to help you, but I don't give a f8ck."

I'd prefer to be loved and understood!
But if I had to pick, I'd go for being loved.


Really? You call that love? In my book, they didn't love you.

They probably didn't but then who does? People who help me? Is that all it's good for?

Because let me tell you that you don't need to particularly care to help people. I know because I've done it plenty of times. I've seen a lot of indifferent volunteers and professionals as well.

We might argue that there's some love for humanity there but it isn't directed at anyone in particular. I've stopped to help people with their cars or check on somebody who appears to have had an accident or be in trouble, talked to random strangers that just seem to be desperately lonely, shared food and cigarettes with homeless people, let people sleep on my couch etc and it's not because I particularly love them, it's because I don't feel like being completely indifferent. It's what I think I should do.

So yeah I suppose that when I got food from the church lady that she loved me somehow, but it wasn't me that she loved, it was people if anyone.

IMO love is less about what you do and more about why.

 

[sprinkles]

You're right. I'm sorry..

Thank you. I appreciate that, really.

 

[Tin Man]

Hm, I don't know. I've had people in my life who loved me, but also made my life hell. And I've had people who loved me, but wanted me to be something I'm not.

I don't think there's ever been anyone in my life who understood me (god that sounds so emo, "nobody understands my pain"), but I have had people who just accept me. Who don't try to change who I am or pass judgement on my choices and I've found that to be preferable to both. I don't know if it's even possible to truly understand another human being, hell I don't know if it's possible to understand yourself. As someone who's delved into the darkest and most fucked up parts of his pysche, I think this might be a good thing.

 

[Erlian]

They probably didn't but then who does? People who help me? Is that all it's good for?

Because let me tell you that you don't need to particularly care to help people. I know because I've done it plenty of times. I've seen a lot of indifferent volunteers and professionals as well.

We might argue that there's some love for humanity there but it isn't directed at anyone in particular. I've stopped to help people with their cars or check on somebody who appears to have had an accident or be in trouble, talked to random strangers that just seem to be desperately lonely, shared food and cigarettes with homeless people, let people sleep on my couch etc and it's not because I particularly love them, it's because I don't feel like being completely indifferent. It's what I think I should do.

So yeah I suppose that when I got food from the church lady that she loved me somehow, but it wasn't me that she loved, it was people if anyone.

IMO love is less about what you do and more about why.

Ah, but you mention a different characterisc unrelated to love OR understanding: caring or being a nice person.
People that care about others in general. As you say, they don't love you specifically, they just 'love humanity'.
These people are kind people, but I wouldn't say they necessarily love or understand you.

It's an entirely different measure than being loved or being understood.
You seem to imply that people who understand are not indifferent (correct me if wrong). Not everyone here shares that implication.


I found another reason why I prefer to be loved. I have no issue or problem (and never had) with making people understand me. I can explain stuff.
Getting people to love me. That's tougher.
Basically it's because I've never felt loved... :/

 

[sprinkles]

Ah, but you mention a different characterisc unrelated to love OR understanding: caring or being a nice person.
People that care about others in general. As you say, they don't love you specifically, they just 'love humanity'.
These people are kind people, but I wouldn't say they necessarily love or understand you.

It's an entirely different measure than being loved or being understood.
You seem to imply that people who understand are not indifferent (correct me if wrong). Not everyone here shares that implication.


I found another reason why I prefer to be loved. I have no issue or problem (and never had) with making people understand me. I can explain stuff.
Getting people to love me. That's tougher.

People who understand can be indifferent and I'm used to indifferent so that doesn't actually change the common denominator.

I often prefer people to be indifferent anyway. Less complicated and easier to know what to expect.

 

[Barnabas]

@Barnabas

Also if somebody understands me and manages to not do those things on the list, they're likely a psychopath anyway.

Without understanding you don't actually know what you're loving. It's like loading up a shotgun with love pellets and hoping you hit something. Compassionate qualities tend to follow understanding even if people aren't particularly affectionate for you, because they have some degree of empathy.

Additionally through understanding someone you learn what needs to be forgiven, how that person needs hope, what needs to be endured and so on. Without understanding your list becomes a mere set of ideals with no actual target to practice them on, and if you do try to practice them without understanding, you do so in ignorance.

I think we should be clear, love and understanding, it's not a dichotomy. Let's be honest think of the people you love unconditionally or at least as close to unconditionally as possible. Love should make you more willing and more active in trying to understand them, loving someone while not understanding them is possible, but it shouldn't stay that way, it's not meant to be that way.

 

[sprinkles]

I think we should be clear, love and understanding, it's not a dichotomy. Let's be honest think of the people you love unconditionally or at least as close to unconditionally as possible. Love should make you more willing and more active in trying to understand them, loving someone while not understanding them is possible, but it shouldn't stay that way, it's not meant to be that way.

I know. This was never about that though. Understanding is my preference. It was never meant to go this deep or philosophical. I did not expect to be grilled about it.

[MENTION=5511]o_q[/MENTION] this is still all your fault.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]

Also I find it ironic that I'm spending all this energy in an effort to get you people to understand me. That should be some evidence in itself.

 

[Barnabas]

Yeah yeah I've been to church and heard all this stuff before. Sounds good on paper but so often turns out to be empty words.

Besides, most of those things aren't a necessity in my opinion. Additionally too much of this kind of 'love' makes me feel incredibly sappy and overloaded.

Also a lot of this comes down to loving yourself to get these benefits because this sugary sap is so stereotypical that it can be said without feeling, but the benefits come from your belief and not necessarily the actual intentions or sincerity of others.

This is like saying beauty is on the inside. Everybody says it but very few actually fucking mean it.

Love isn't an emotion, it's not about getting good feels or even giving good feels. Love is a constant acting living devotion, it supersedes everything else.

I can be angry, but I still have to love, I can be tired, hungry cold and wet, but I still have to love.
I can be happy and joyous, and but I shouldn't be those things outside of love.

I think my lack of sleep is affecting me, I can't seem to find the right words to adequately describe what I'm trying to communicate.

We are created things of love, by love, to love, for love. It bothers me deeply to find so many people who don't understand what love is, what it means to love and it screas me that so many of these people are Christians.

 

[Barnabas]

I know. This was never about that though. Understanding is my preference. It was never meant to go this deep or philosophical. I did not expect to be grilled about it.

@o_q this is still all your fault.

@Barnabas

Also I find it ironic that I'm spending all this energy in an effort to get you people to understand me. That should be some evidence in itself.

Well if you understood me you would have know this was going to happen.