Do kids change you?
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TinyBubbles
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do kids change you? well yeah, i'm pretty sure they would. being responsible for another human being from birth until adulthood would force the reigns on maturity on anyone.. not sure if I agree with you that people aren't 'adults' in the general sense of the word without being parents though, that sounds like a load of bull, intended to segregate and make sweeping generalizations about different groups of people. many parents hate being parents, and are not better people for having them. they renegade on their responsibilities and as a consequence, don't learn the lessons such an experience could teach them. there are others that are as equipped by previous experiences such as work commitments, or looking after OTHER people (besides their own kids- why would your OWN kids make that much difference? surely being responsible for anyone 24/7 would have the same effect), etc. to be able to claim they're 'complete' adults without kids.
i have to say though your argument is similar to many i've heard parents say over the years, that people who don't have kids are missing something 'essential' from life.. but seriously, people are not all the same and they're going to have different needs. some would benefit from having kids and would experience a greater breadth of the human condition, others wouldn't. simple as. sorry for the long winded and rather incoherent answer, i haven't slept as usual! ;(
i have to say though your argument is similar to many i've heard parents say over the years, that people who don't have kids are missing something 'essential' from life.. but seriously, people are not all the same and they're going to have different needs. some would benefit from having kids and would experience a greater breadth of the human condition, others wouldn't. simple as. sorry for the long winded and rather incoherent answer, i haven't slept as usual! ;(
randomsomeone
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Yes, I think raising kids (adopted or otherwise) can/does change one. In my view it stretches our human capacities, including our hearts, far beyond what we would otherwise be capable of. We, in a sense, become a different person....I would even say a higher self. Parents (good ones anyway) have to let go of a lot, but as is so often the case, any sacrifices made tend to be repaid many times over in very deep and profound ways.
One can have a very full life with out kids, but kids introduce something very unique into the equation.
One can have a very full life with out kids, but kids introduce something very unique into the equation.
patricky
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I'm a bit late on this one but yes, in answer to the OP, YES having kids does change you drastically.
I've done a lot of things in my life and I can honestly say that caring for children under the age of 3 while recovering from pregnancy is hands-down the hardest thing I've ever, ever, done. I love my kids to no end, don't get me wrong -- and they ARE fun! Hilariously fun. (Especially now that we get to do things like go rock-climbing together and stuff like that.)
Childbirth itself is an intense, almost spiritual thing. People think babies are easy. But it's hard -- brutally hard, in the early days, to do without sleep -- and young babies do NOT sleep regularly, to breastfeed them, or bottle-feed them every 2-3 hours, to hold them when they are colicky, to nurse them through all the 10 million terrifying and gross childhood illnesses they get, to see that they are eating properly and getting appropriate mental stimulation, to learn about childhood development, to adjust your expectations (which are usually way wrong, and that it would all be easier than it is), to keep your temper and sanity when you are exhausted, and in pain, and hormonal, and just want to cry and sleep and check yourself into a hotel and give it all up. You have to give up your privacy, it puts a serious (if temporary) damper on your sex life.
Don't even get me started on sibling rivalry.Try to explain to an insanely jealous three-year-old why he mustn't kill his baby brother, while at the same time suppressing your overpowering instinct to crush anyone who might hurt your baby, in this case, who happens to be your oldest child. That takes strength, and it usually takes a partner who is willing to help.
Oh, and there's the physical changes too. It takes about a year, really, to recover. Your boobs get about ten times larger, and they hurt, and hormones cause your hair to fall out (partially) but it regrows, and some people get stretch marks (not me! thanks, genes!) and it is a grueling process physically and emotionally. Oh, yeah, and have you ever heard of an episiotomy?
And you just love them so much that it hurts. It just... I can't even explain it.You wake up in the middle of the night just to make sure they are okay.
Taking care of my very young children required 100% of my body, mind, heart and soul, 24/7, and you don't give those things without being drastically changed in the process. It does get easier and more fun as they get older, and I have help now, which I didn't in the early days. So that makes a big difference. Oh, yeah, and you can get back into shape, so that is nice too!
But you can't really go through these things without sort of... feeling appreciation for people, who have gone through the same or similar things, and understanding that we're all part of the same pattern of life... that people have been doing these things for millions of years and it makes you feel part of humanity in a way you sort of didn't before. You see the graves of women who died in childbirth, or their infants who were killed by some now-curable disease and you just feel as if that could be you, and it makes you feel grateful and sad at the same time. You see mothers, fathers and children in horrible circumstances and relate to them in a way you couldn't before... Sort of rambling here but I hope you get the idea.
I've done a lot of things in my life and I can honestly say that caring for children under the age of 3 while recovering from pregnancy is hands-down the hardest thing I've ever, ever, done. I love my kids to no end, don't get me wrong -- and they ARE fun! Hilariously fun. (Especially now that we get to do things like go rock-climbing together and stuff like that.)
Childbirth itself is an intense, almost spiritual thing. People think babies are easy. But it's hard -- brutally hard, in the early days, to do without sleep -- and young babies do NOT sleep regularly, to breastfeed them, or bottle-feed them every 2-3 hours, to hold them when they are colicky, to nurse them through all the 10 million terrifying and gross childhood illnesses they get, to see that they are eating properly and getting appropriate mental stimulation, to learn about childhood development, to adjust your expectations (which are usually way wrong, and that it would all be easier than it is), to keep your temper and sanity when you are exhausted, and in pain, and hormonal, and just want to cry and sleep and check yourself into a hotel and give it all up. You have to give up your privacy, it puts a serious (if temporary) damper on your sex life.
Don't even get me started on sibling rivalry.Try to explain to an insanely jealous three-year-old why he mustn't kill his baby brother, while at the same time suppressing your overpowering instinct to crush anyone who might hurt your baby, in this case, who happens to be your oldest child. That takes strength, and it usually takes a partner who is willing to help.
Oh, and there's the physical changes too. It takes about a year, really, to recover. Your boobs get about ten times larger, and they hurt, and hormones cause your hair to fall out (partially) but it regrows, and some people get stretch marks (not me! thanks, genes!) and it is a grueling process physically and emotionally. Oh, yeah, and have you ever heard of an episiotomy?
And you just love them so much that it hurts. It just... I can't even explain it.You wake up in the middle of the night just to make sure they are okay.
Taking care of my very young children required 100% of my body, mind, heart and soul, 24/7, and you don't give those things without being drastically changed in the process. It does get easier and more fun as they get older, and I have help now, which I didn't in the early days. So that makes a big difference. Oh, yeah, and you can get back into shape, so that is nice too!
But you can't really go through these things without sort of... feeling appreciation for people, who have gone through the same or similar things, and understanding that we're all part of the same pattern of life... that people have been doing these things for millions of years and it makes you feel part of humanity in a way you sort of didn't before. You see the graves of women who died in childbirth, or their infants who were killed by some now-curable disease and you just feel as if that could be you, and it makes you feel grateful and sad at the same time. You see mothers, fathers and children in horrible circumstances and relate to them in a way you couldn't before... Sort of rambling here but I hope you get the idea.
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Bravo! When fathers to be look at me (as the dad of two most excellent daughters) and I can tell by the look in their eyes that they are scared, I always tell them in a most reassuring voice "Don't worry, the women do all the work"
ps
The National Geographic News reported on February 16th 2005 that the oldest known, anatomically correct human skeletal fossil remains are 195,000 years old. If you are thinking Richard Leaky you would be correct. Omo I and Omo II, named for the Ethiopian river which separated the fossilized skull fragments, were discovered in 1967 by Dr. Leaky's team and accurately dated in 2004. Two hundred thousand years of "anatomically modern humans", AMHs for those in the know. Yet no real evidence of human culture until 50,000 years ago, though many will argue that point.
My husband helped a lot and is very highly involved with the kids and does/did a lot of work with them, so I actually never said that women do all the work. Only the ones who aren't lucky enough to have a decent man (or partner of some gender) in their life. Except, of course, the childbirth part, and the breastfeeding part. I couldn't do it without his help and I and our children depend on him greatly.
(and yes, I said "millions" but that just sounded better than "tens of thousands". Sorry! :lol: Sheese.)
(and yes, I said "millions" but that just sounded better than "tens of thousands". Sorry! :lol: Sheese.)
enigma
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^^ This. Basically everything I was struggleing to put into words.
I'll add:
There are days I still feel like a kid and even act like one. There are days I will certainly not win parent of the year, and days that are the epitome of that ideal you have in your mind. I struggle everyday with being a parent and being my self. It changes you in a million inperceptible ways, yet you retain your self somehow. It is all about balance, and forgiving yourself for not being the perfect parent every day, and just doing the best you can.
TrevOrTrevor
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Interesting stuff. I can't wait to have a kid.
I fantasize that my kids (I imagine a boy first) will be stronger than me. I'll do everything I can to show them everything i wasn't shown. And give them the space they will need to grow, as well as the family and love he will also need.
Can't wait.
I fantasize that my kids (I imagine a boy first) will be stronger than me. I'll do everything I can to show them everything i wasn't shown. And give them the space they will need to grow, as well as the family and love he will also need.
Can't wait.
randomsomeone
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True, especially after the major taks of child-raising are finished and you get to be a...............grandparent!!!!!
enigma
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True, especially after the major taks of child-raising are finished and you get to be a...............grandparent!!!!!
OMG I can't even imagine!
I can't even go there, mine are 3 & 8!
randomsomeone
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Word of advise....don't. Enjoy the precious present with your kids because (yes, the cliche is true) the time goes by far too quickly.
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Ben, once again if you are trying to be funny or sarcastic--you are neither. If you are being serious (doubtful) then this is an uninformed statement on your part. You are not a parent, so you cannot speak even for yourself in this situation, much less another. For me it has been both an interesting and enlightening experience. Try being at the birth of your own child and see if it doesn't change you. At this point I would agree with your last statement though. But people do change. At 18 I would not have been a good parent either.
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The thing I hate about children is their parents haha. No your kid isn't super smart, he fucking eats well at 4 years old because he has inherited data from his genes to know to put something in his mouth, chew it and swallow... christ.
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I don't think he was overtly trying to be funny, but it definitely was funny what he said. And while emotionally having a kid might be a big mystical experience to some, to say its a mystical experience and anyone who disagrees is somehow just as silly as what BenW said. but I think he was trying to be a little silly.
BenW
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Once again...?
Do I know you?
I'm not a crack addict either, but I feel fairly comfortable in my ability to make objective statements about them.
I saw a ferret give birth in 10th grade biology.
I think that was close enough really.
I wasn't that moved by it.
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Birth is fairly disgusting, I understand the metaphysical beauty of it... but there is nothing attractive about it in person.
Absolutely true. I miss the times when my kids were little. Relationships with one's kids really change when they become adults. For us, it's still great, but different.
We have an evolutionary imperative to have children. How could fulfilling that imperative be anything but profound?
These days, parents seem to hover over their children too much. Stop programming every minute of a kid's time and let him or her go out and have some unorganized fun. Stop worrying about your kid's self-esteem so much. Stop pressuring them to get great grades so they can go to the best universities. What's the point anyway? If it's all about future earning potential, most wealthy people didn't go to Harvard or Oxford. Too many parents live through their kids. They should get their own lives.
Provide your kids with unconditional love, clear, fair rules, opportunities to learn all kinds of things, read to them, eat dinner together, talk to them like they matter, and stop telling them what to do and think. They'll be fine.
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No one is asking you not to post here Ben. I certainly wasn't. I think you just need to think about what you post and don't make uninformed, blanket statements about what it's like to raise a kid when you don't have the perspective. People (like me) take it very seriously and when you are dismissive of the experience, as you were, it sits with people wrong. I like to joke as well as the next guy. I just choose my words, and subject, more carefully.
My mother has told me that she always though I'd be the most likely kid to NOT have children, and now I have four. Growing up she was probably right. I didn't have much interest in them. Things can and do change. Keep posting if you have something constructive, or questions, to add.