Are we growing too fast?

[Entyqua]

I was having this conversation the other day about how the world has advanced in a very fast pace in comparison to its life span...

Think about it...in just 100 years what we have discovered, accomplished, and built...

how quickly the people have covered whole cities, states, countries...there is hardly much open land anymore...not much nature around us...

I think about how many catastrophes there have been...earth quakes tsunami's ect...

The talk of japan disappearing.

have we out grown our planet?

Is the earth rejecting the pests that dwell on it...trying to trim the flock so to speak...

I cant help but wonder?

Also with the talk of slowing down on another thread...are we destroying life as we know it...Life in general...When do we decide enough is enough...when we have to build our cities above the cities because there's no pollution higher up?

What are we doing?

Is there no going back?

Are we doomed?

I worry because I live on a LARGE fault line, and in the bed of a prehistoric lake that covered half the united states...What if the big one hits and suddenly we are under water again...

Where are we going?

 

[Satya]

Population wise, the carrying capacity of the globe is calculated to be about 9 billion. At that point, the population as a whole can no longer continue to grow because the resources would simply not be available. We have never had an over population problem, what we have experienced is a population distribution problem. That is why people in some parts of the world can be starving while others in other parts of the world can be obese. However, once we hit 9 billion will get considerably rockier because we will still have a population distribution problem and an overpopulation problem. Given that we are primates, the classical solution to overpopulation and unequal distribution of resources is war.

Disaster wise, we aren't really seeing a much greater number of natural disasters. What we are seeing is much greater media coverage of disasters. That creates the illusion that the sky is falling.

 

[the]

Eventually humans will be extinct. Its a fact you have to come to terms with.

 

[Satya]

Eventually humans will be extinct. Its a fact you have to come to terms with.

Because we will evolve into an even awesomer species.

 

[NeverAmI]

Eventually humans will be extinct. Its a fact you have to come to terms with.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoi1MSGu64"]YouTube- Flight Of The Conchords - The Humans Are Dead[/ame]

 

[enfp can be shy]

Is there no going back?

Of course there is. We can stop this at any time. Look how beautiful the world still is. Today was such an amazing day, with all this mighty wind. Half the day the storm cleared the sky so well, that the sun was shining as if it's summer, and half of the day it was gloomy and windy. Felt so great, and people on the street looked so normal and friendly.

As John Lennon says: It's eaaaasy ^^ ...

We actually live in the best of all times. Everything is so easy today. A little common sense is lacking, but that's temporary. Humanity will come to its senses, inevitably, as always before in history.

People have been obsessed with doomsday thoughts, and malthusian fears, even before world war two, but those were delusions. They had no real problems, as seen afterwards. They just didn't use what they had properly, and the whole war was not needed. I think today we will pass without repeating this pattern, because we know and understand much more.

 

[randomsomeone]

We are adolescents...we may look like adults but we lack wisdom. We play with our new toys and disregard the past as if we were somehow better than those who came before us, as if the things they knew were of little value given the new world we live in. We do not listen, we do not heed...we plow straight ahead as if only we matter.

Someday...should we actually survive into adulthood...we will be more balanced. The things we now consider silly and irrelevant will make much more sense. We will have gained enough experience to listen, to respect. We will regret some of our growning pains and bad choices...some of which we cannot undo, only deal with as we forge a new future that is not that of our elders, but benefits from their sense of perspective. In this world we come to love all that we are and have been and not struggle so in the midst of our angst.

 

[slant]

If we are it's indigo's fault, he invited them here.;


err.....i misunderstood the topic....


nevermind....nevermind...

 

[Raccoon Love]

I think indeed in the end no matter how much we advance and grow, nature has its ways to keep in check and balanced, we are messing with such system and so forth we are paying the consequences, no matter how much we grow humanity will always face challenges, I believe that a series of chaotic events and tests will soon come if we go in the current direction we are going but if we change some of our selfish ways, become more in touch with the spiritual and unite this series of catastrophes can be prevented,

 

[IndigoSensor]

I worry because I live on a LARGE fault line, and in the bed of a prehistoric lake that covered half the united states...What if the big one hits and suddenly we are under water again...

I live in the closest most populated area to the yellowstone caldera. If that goes off, I am in deep doo-doo. I know how you feel.

 

[enfp can be shy]

Population wise, the carrying capacity of the globe is calculated to be about 9 billion.

That depends on the quality of living. People can live in much tougher conditions than the average human today. It also depends on the used technology for energy and for housing. Other independent calculations have shown that the carrying capacity of the whole surface plus efficient use of the oceans may well be within trillions of humans. /i.e. about thousand times more than now/ That's by using hundreds floors-buildings for housing, and very high vertical farming. Of course, that should be avoided, because it would be inconvenient. Just saying that solutions exist even for much more extreme situations than ours. And therefore, no need for hysteria.

There is no overpopulation issue, but that's common dogma, that has been created in the past too, for some short periods of destabilization. It's not surprising that it's popular again. Moreover, even though population is still growing, the growth rate is steadily and rapidly falling, throughout the past 20 years, soon approaching zero, and then very soon population of the planet is gonna enter demographic drop. By the end of the century humanity may face problems with declining population, and be in need to stimulate higher birth rates again.

Everybody seems to think I'm lazy.
I don't mind, I think they're crazy
Running everywhere at such a speed,
Till they find there is no need...

 

[MrWindUpBird]

I wouldn't really worry about it. People moan about how we're all gonna starve to death, and OMG there's no place for anyone to live any more! These people obviously have never been to Canada, Mexico, the America Midwest/Southeast, Africa, or Central Asia. Some of these regions might not be the French Riviera, but they're definitely habitable and probably arable.

Earthquakes and tsunamis happen all the time. These things are nothing compared to other stuff humanity has dealt with, like the Spanish Influenza in 1918 or the Black Plague. I think we should be more worried about destroying ourselves through unethical science than about earthquakes and tsunamis.

And this coming from someone who swam through Hurricane Katrina.

---

In the 21st century, we ought to be concerned not about the physical destruction of humanity through famine, disease, pollution, global warming, etc., but about the destruction of the human spirit and identity. Not to get into an off-topic political debate, but how cheap has human life become? We've gone from one extreme (persecution of doctors by churches for dissecting corpses) to the other (stem cells, advances in the understanding of human cloning, human body parts being grown in animals). Not to mention that everyone is increasingly interconnected through the internet (see "Singularity"). I'm no conspiracy theorist but I think humans are trending toward becoming some sort of macro-organism and losing their individuality.

 

[Ria]

I live on Vancouver Island, BC Canada and this is a huge mound of volcanic earth which will obviously be upheaved one day. When that will be, I'm sure with technological advances, we will better someday know before it happens. I am not overly worried though to be honest, because thanks to technology, we will b e warned. Should I not get the warning that way, then I will sense it from the natural vibrations around me, allbeit by the animals, the air or by these two and more. Should I ignore, and remain, then wow, I get to experience some drastic and powerful order of nature hopefully without fear, but with respect and awe.

 

[On my own path]

I think indeed in the end no matter how much we advance and grow, nature has its ways to keep in check and balanced, we are messing with such system and so forth we are paying the consequences, no matter how much we grow humanity will always face challenges, I believe that a series of chaotic events and tests will soon come if we go in the current direction we are going but if we change some of our selfish ways, become more in touch with the spiritual and unite this series of catastrophes can be prevented,

I agree, nature is a complex self repairing and self sustaining system. In the end humanity may destroy itself and nature would eventually obliterate most of the traces of humanity.

I do not necessarily believe humanity is invariably doomed though. There is no way back but there is still a way forward. The journey of existence has many paths that then diverge into more paths and more paths and so on, humanity just has to find the right one to " get back on track". But it is not going to be easy, it a sinner needs to accomplice many good deeds to redress all their wrong ones.

With the realisation of humanity's wrongs, comes an opportunity to make amends. As Raccoon Love mentioned humanity needs to become more " spiritual". We need to utilise our disparities together with our common humanity to produce change. However we need to cut through the fog that hindering our development as individual members of humanity and tries to encourage people to be sheep-like members of segregated groups.

 

[acd]

Entyqua, I'm reading a book now that relates to your question. Have you ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? I highly recommend it. It offers an interesting perspective in response to your question...

The book states that we have been and are continuing to grow too fast, and it began with the agricultural revolution some 10 thousand years ago. Populations began to grow larger because there was more food available (through working the land) and people began to settle in one area and expand instead of being nomads/hunter gatherers.

Yada yada, long story short, all of these advancements you speak of, and with them-- humanity's self-inflicted alienation from nature.

The book really just supposes that people need to understand the destruction they are causing and work to reverse it by living in community with all living things instead of as masters of the earth. It can't be impossible to do this, it's just that it's easier to live in the present than to think about distant incentives or consequences..

We're not doomed unless we do not acknowledge that we need to start living in harmony with the planet.. which I think is beginning to happen across the world. A new consciousness in begining to awaken.

The book doesn't really explain HOW we do that.. it seems to be more about getting the reader interested in thinking about it.

But it offers a really interesting incentive.. It sounds kind of science fictiony, but what if humans are not the only animals who are to be self-aware and intelligent? What if we're just the "trailblazers" of self-awareness and intelligence on the planet?

There could be some other species who has the potential to be as intelligent as we are, but right now, we're losing species to extinction everyday due to our rapid destruction or "growth."

But I hope you check the book out.

 

[Entyqua]

Entyqua, I'm reading a book now that relates to your question. Have you ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? I highly recommend it. It offers an interesting perspective in response to your question...

The book states that we have been and are continuing to grow too fast, and it began with the agricultural revolution some 10 thousand years ago. Populations began to grow larger because there was more food available (through working the land) and people began to settle in one area and expand instead of being nomads/hunter gatherers.

Yada yada, long story short, all of these advancements you speak of, and with them-- humanity's self-inflicted alienation from nature.

The book really just supposes that people need to understand the destruction they are causing and work to reverse it by living in community with all living things instead of as masters of the earth. It can't be impossible to do this, it's just that it's easier to live in the present than to think about incentives or consequences..

We're not doomed unless we do not acknowledge that we need to start living in harmony with the planet.. which I think is beginning to happen across the world. A new consciousness in begining to awaken.

The book doesn't really explain HOW we do that.. it seems to be more about getting the reader interested in thinking about it.

But it offers a really interesting incentive.. It sounds kind of science fictiony, but what if humans are not the only animals who are to be self-aware and intelligent? What if we're just the "trailblazers" of self-awareness and intelligence on the planet?

There could be some other species who has the potential to be as intelligent as we are, but right now, we're losing species to extinction everyday due to our rapid destruction or "growth."

But I hope you check the book out.

No I have not read that, but it is defiantly going on my list. Thanks for the recommend! Its exactly what I have been thinking! Great!

 

[acd]

No I have not read that, but it is defiantly going on my list. Thanks for the recommend! Its exactly what I have been thinking! Great!

Ah! I'm excited! Yes, it's a good read. I think that as you're asking these questions, you will benefit greatly from contemplating some of these ideas. I'd be curious to know what you think about it if you read it, so PM me sometime?

 

[Entyqua]

Ah! I'm excited! Yes, it's a good read. I think that as you're asking these questions, you will benefit greatly from contemplating some of these ideas. I'd be curious to know what you think about it if you read it, so PM me sometime?

Definately...I have a few books in my line up already...but I will definately pick it up on my next trip to Barnes and Noble.