An Absolute | INFJ Forum

An Absolute

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Satya, Mar 21, 2009.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 3 users.
More threads by Satya
  1. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Threads:
    540
    Messages:
    7,284
    Likes Received:
    549
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INXP
    There are few absolutes in this world, but one that can't be denied is death. Everyone who is alive at this moment, including yourself, is going to die. There is no escape from this reality.

    Some people like to believe that there is an afterlife. Others like to believe in reincarnation. Some choose to believe that life is without meaning and we will simply cease to exist in death. Every theory of death is simply a matter of faith. Even faith in nothing is still faith. The uncertainty of what happens after death is yet another absolute.

    What do you believe happens after death? Why do you choose to believe in that possibility? Why is it important for you to believe what you believe?

    There will be no judgment in this thread, only sharing.
     
    #1 Satya, Mar 21, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  2. slant

    slant Sedated slanty

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Threads:
    331
    Messages:
    10,155
    Featured Threads:
    39
    Likes Received:
    15,384
    Trophy Points:
    1,741
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    Infp
    Enneagram:
    6-4-9
    Even if there is no life after death, it doesn't mean that what we do on this earth doesn't mean something. But then again...it could not mean anything.

    My view on death is actually really simple.

    Is there life after death?

    I dunno, do I look dead to you?

    The point is, that we'll never actually know until it happens to us. I don't contemplate it very much because I think I could be spending my time better doing other things that are more constructive, since we are going to die anyhow and *may very soon* find out.

    But I don't think that there is anything wrong with imagining How will it be...?

    But we never really contemplate how it was like to be born. So my question is, besides the obvious underdeveloped brain: why did we not contemplate birth before it occured, and why do we not remember it? Perhaps death and birth are similar concepts.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Threads:
    382
    Messages:
    11,688
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Trophy Points:
    881
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    9w1
    Hmm...interesting thoughts.

    I'm going to answer slant's question regarding birth: I think we don't contemplate birth or pre-birth that much because at birth we don't have memories or experiences we want to save and take with us after death. Some people contemplate life before life, but it's almost a non-issue. Why human beings, in my opinion, feel like life after death is so important is because they've become individuals with a whole wealth of experiences and dreams. We don't want to give those thoughts and dreams up. So we want death to be as significant as our life was...or we want our death to be better than our life was.

    As far as life after death goes, yes, I believe in it. I hold to the Christian doctrine with a touch of Calvinism, so I believe we all have eternal life. I believe we are essentially spirits with a meat form and one day the meat dies, but our minds/spirits will continue and see things beyond what we've ever contemplated. I look forward to it, actually. Do I have proof? 'Course not. Just the hard core INFJ knowledge that I know what I know.

    I don't know if it's important that I believe in it or not, because frankly it's not up to me. In my belief system it doesn't matter if you believe it or you don't because it simply is. Have I studied other religions? Sure. But I've never felt as satisfied and, if you can indulge me, "whole."

    In short, I feel at peace.
     
    #3 arbygil, Mar 21, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  4. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Threads:
    762
    Messages:
    14,154
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2 sx/so/sp
    I strongly believe in reincarnation. At then end of your life when you die, you enter the spiritual plane, and encounter many confusing things. You could just recycle back down into earth again, stay on earth as a spirit, or ascend into the astral plane. You would undergo a sort of live review, and decide what the next course of action would be. Another life on earth, a different life in another world. Or ascend as a spirit and aid others in need in that sense, or fight in an ongoing battle. I have no idea what the ultimate goal is. I assume is just to learn, experience, and advance.

    That is the jist of what I beleieve with death.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. Pristinegirl

    Pristinegirl Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Threads:
    36
    Messages:
    3,085
    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ANFP
    I believe that life hurts alot more than death, when you die the pain is gone. When it comes to the afterlife, I'm open to all spiritual possibilities. However I really fear a day of retribution.

    I am not really into reincarnating into an animal but I think that the soul could perhaps carry on in humans.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. Warrior Therapist

    Warrior Therapist Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Threads:
    1
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    My take on the afterlife is that, if there is one (and I think there is), then we are all released from our mortal frames and become purely spiritual beings, perhaps retaining consciousness, perhaps made one and indivisible with God, perhaps descending into new bodies and lives on Earth to begin the game afresh.

    I don't believe so much in Heaven or Hell as I believe that individuals can find their own heaven or hell through their proximity to God and their original nature. We create our own heaven, our own hell, according to our choices in this life or any other.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. efromm

    efromm Hiding In My Shell...
    Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    3,417
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,988
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    InFj
    You know as I get older my views on life and death have changed quite a bit. Being raised a Mormon taught me their ways. Now that I am older and can make up my own mind, I am really wondering if there is really anything after death. I see life created only to be taken for food. Animals eat each other and death occurs. Humans kill each other and death occurs. We are part of the world and everything in this world dies. And everything has a replacement at some point. Extinction has happened in the past.

    That is why in my life I decided to live my life doing what I want to do I may never have these years again. Death to me seems absolute. Although I feel a very strong spiritual connection to the world when I am in the wilderness. And that peace out there makes me hope that I will be able to see it once more after I die.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. EloquentBohemian

    EloquentBohemian Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Threads:
    11
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    572
    MBTI:
    INxx
    In Jewish mysticism, there is an area in the seventh heaven called the Chamber of Guf. It is the repository for all souls before birth. When someone is born, a soul is placed within the corporeal body. Each soul, and therefore each person, is unique and thus, important. Tradition states that when the Guf is empty of souls, the Messiah will appear.

    What this prompted for me was to contemplate pre-existence.
    If the soul is eternal and the corporeal body is not, does this imply that the time spent in the corporeal state is special and unique?
    Would it imply also that human existence is not something to flee or degrade or transcend, yet that which one should immerse one's self in?
    In the non-corproeal state which one is before birth and after death, one cannot touch or feel.
    One would be immerse in Love, yet would one know Love?
    We know Love by it's absence and by the times we are immersed, yet separate from it.
    Would not the momentary marvels such as holding a newborn, seeing a sunset, looking into a lover's eyes hold much more importance because in the non-corporeal state of the soul, these actions cannot be undertaken?

    Comparing the infinity of the existence of the soul to the extremely short period of time it can spend in corproreal form, would not this make corporeal existence just that more precious?
    Do the souls waiting in the Chamber of Guf yearn to become corporeal so that they might experience this fleeting time in the infinity of their existence?

    Food for thought.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Milon

    Milon Director of Glomps
    Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Threads:
    13
    Messages:
    1,551
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ!
    Enneagram:
    6w5 SO
    I believe in the Christian God, but I have no idea what the afterlife will be like. Everything that modern Christians tell me... I dunno, I kind of think there was a reason God made matter, and I don't think it was just a trial period of sorts. I think the afterlife will hold a physical reality, but no idea what it'll be like. I'm still trying to solve the universe of the living!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Wyote

    Wyote Xenoi
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Threads:
    242
    Messages:
    35,758
    Featured Threads:
    19
    Likes Received:
    189,630
    Trophy Points:
    4,271
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    Ni Space
    Enneagram:
    9 Seas
    We are eternal, ever changing sources of energy. Death is simply a transformation of energy. How this is experienced upon the occurrence of death is dependent upon how the person lived.

    We are infinite. It is probable that death brings us closer to the awareness of our infinitude, providing we are willing to embrace it.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    TenorKite likes this.
  11. Milon

    Milon Director of Glomps
    Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Threads:
    13
    Messages:
    1,551
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ!
    Enneagram:
    6w5 SO
    Good thoughts, but I'd like to add one more. Maybe the soul has experiences before life but we aren't aware of them now. Why should "nothing" happen until we're conceived? Maybe we just don't remember. Maybe after death we'll laugh at ourselves and how silly we were as meat-sacks! :lol:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. EloquentBohemian

    EloquentBohemian Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Threads:
    11
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    572
    MBTI:
    INxx
    Good point, but would the thought/experiences of the soul before birth be of an individual kind or of one where one is immersed in the Oneness of God/Heaven? (...speaking in a Judeo/Christian tone here)
    I would assume that the experiences of a soul without a corporeal form, which seems to separate one from the 'whole', would be different than those experiences of a soul with a corporeal form.

    On a related note, the film Wings of Desire by Wim Wenders where an angel wishes to become human in order to feel, etc. also prompted me along this line of thought.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Creon

    Creon Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Threads:
    15
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    Lawful Evil
    I believe that after we die we simply cease to exist, but that is exactly why I believe life has a meaning. It's a race against time to perfect our nature, enjoy and unravel the mysteries, the truths and the lies of our civilization, and learn the deep feelings that every human interaction has to offer. And if possible, change the world for the better, so that the next generation can enjoy life much more than we did.

    I always thought that being benevolent or malevolent has nothing to do with what happens after death. Who cares about divine rewards? Everything we need is inside us and inside those who are next to us during this insane ride. That's the meaning I see in life.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. just me

    just me GONE

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    220
    Messages:
    12,403
    Featured Threads:
    19
    Likes Received:
    7,462
    Trophy Points:
    1,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    not here
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    Oh, death; where is thy sting? In the scriptures, one man "walked with God" and was no more; another man left in a "chariot of fire"(sounds much like a spacecraft) and knew exactly when he would leave; and the third was raised from the dead by the same One that would arise the third day.
    I will further comment on this later. Thanks for the "only sharing" part.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Threads:
    115
    Messages:
    2,745
    Likes Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    none
    Enneagram:
    none
    I believe that the soul leaves the body and is given a preview to it's afterlife, whether its heaven or hell. I choose to believe in this because it makes perfect sense to me and its part of Islam, which I personally find infallible.
     
    #15 bs98r3kjf, Mar 22, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  16. Faye

    Faye ^_^
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Threads:
    311
    Messages:
    7,276
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4,607
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Gridania
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    I don't think that it matters. Why should what happens after you die affect what you do now? Is your life not meaningful without an afterlife?
     
  17. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Threads:
    323
    Messages:
    10,047
    Featured Threads:
    49
    Likes Received:
    5,610
    Trophy Points:
    1,102
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    MBTI:
    INTJ - A
    Enneagram:
    10000
    **I don't like long posts, but there is a latin hymn for Catholic requiem Masses that captures what I associate with death**

    Translation from Latin:

    Day of wrath! O day of mourning!
    See fulfilled the prophets' warning,
    Heaven and earth in ashes burning!

    Oh, what fear man's bosom rendeth,
    when from heaven the Judge descendeth,
    on whose sentence all dependeth.

    Wondrous sound the trumpet flingeth;
    through earth's sepulchers it ringeth;
    all before the throne it bringeth.

    Death is struck, and nature quaking,
    all creation is awaking,
    to its Judge an answer making.

    Lo! the book, exactly worded,
    wherein all hath been recorded:
    thence shall judgment be awarded.

    When the Judge his seat attaineth,
    and each hidden deed arraigneth,
    nothing unavenged remaineth.

    What shall I, frail man, be pleading?
    Who for me be interceding,
    when the just are mercy needing?

    King of Majesty tremendous,
    who dost free salvation send us,
    Fount of pity, then befriend us!

    Think, good Jesus, my salvation
    cost thy wondrous Incarnation;
    leave me not to reprobation!

    Faint and weary, thou hast sought me,
    on the cross of suffering bought me.
    shall such grace be vainly brought me?

    Righteous Judge! for sin's pollution
    grant thy gift of absolution,
    ere the day of retribution.

    Guilty, now I pour my moaning,
    all my shame with anguish owning;
    spare, O God, thy suppliant groaning!

    Thou the sinful woman savedst;
    thou the dying thief forgavest;
    and to me a hope vouchsafest.

    Worthless are my prayers and sighing,
    yet, good Lord, in grace complying,
    rescue me from fires undying!

    With thy favored sheep O place me;
    nor among the goats abase me;
    but to thy right hand upraise me.

    While the wicked are confounded,
    doomed to flames of woe unbounded
    call me with thy saints surrounded.

    Low I kneel, with heart submission,
    see, like ashes, my contrition;
    help me in my last condition.

    Ah! that day of tears and mourning!
    From the dust of earth returning
    man for judgment must prepare him;
    Spare, O God, in mercy spare him!

    Lord, all pitying, Jesus blest,
    grant them thine eternal rest. Amen.


    Edit PS.

    Dragon: One of the ancient greek philosophers had a principle about how the end of something affects all of it.

    Something like this: The end is the last in the order of execution, but the first in the order of intention.

    If I don't have a sense of where I am going, I feel like I am lost or just aimlessly going in circles. It's like going out driving without a destination, just taking random turns (which I've done a couple of times) - it's fun for a while, but I couldn't do it long-term.
     
    #17 Flavus Aquila, Mar 22, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  18. mayflow

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Threads:
    71
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFP

    ^^concur^^

    :smile: [​IMG]:smile:
     
  19. chaotic_lion

    chaotic_lion Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Threads:
    10
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Even if there's no real religious life-after-death-experience, that doesn't mean its all over. Eventually we wither back into dust, and we may support plants, or get shit on by a dog(something that would really piss me off, so I'm glad I'm not intelligent dirt,) but what about after that? After billions of years of dog-shitting, eventually the earth is going to "die", itself. Then, we gt sucked into the sun, as its finishing off its existence. The sun dies, explodes, or whatever, but what then? It gets sucked into a black hole, or is sucked into the creation of a new sun, big bang theory, whatever, and here we go again. All through this, you and I exist, no, we're not human, but come on, I mean we "weren't" human a whole long time before we were! I don't think all of existence gets a chance to be so cognative, these lives, this awareness we've been given is so very precious. For a second, we get to see the big picture, before we become interwoven back into it. When I think about my death, I don't feel lonely, because I'm still there, with my loved ones. When they all die, I don't fear not seeing them again, as they've always been there with me, we've always been eternal. Existence itself(not life) is proof of that. I exist, I've always existed, and I will continue to exist. If there's a place for my soul, so much the very better. I try to take care of it, so heaven doesn't deem it a damaged good, and boots me out, or however that works. If there's no spiritual afterlife, I won't know any better, so atleast there'll be no agony in that(I really hope there is, though.) In the end atleast one part of me will become star dust, and I'm cool with that.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
Loading...

Share This Page