Youth Housing and mandatory Bible studies.

[wonkavision]

Well, this clarified things for me somewhat!

I'm not even anything close to being an 18-22 year old male with authority issues and emotional problems, nor am I in need of housing assistance, but the whole "you're going to hell!" thing even makes me feel like an oppositional-defiant teenager. I can only imagine what that style of bible study would do to the residents. Probably make them go "fuck you." If that's the way the bible study classes are (which it doesn't sound like they are, to be fair...) then I'm sure the residents won't benefit from it at all.

It's not just: "youre going to hell"

it's: "Unless God gives you faith to BELIEVE ON HIS SON, THEN you are going to Hell."

BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[the]

1. God doesn't have favorites.

I think an argument could be made that Abraham is Gods favorite.

 

[wonkavision]

I think an argument could be made that Abraham is Gods favorite.

well, God's favorite is his Son, Jesus Christ.

but yes, all those, like Abraham, to whom God has given FAITH, are, by UNION with Christ, God's "favorite".

 

[sprinkles]

I think an argument could be made that Abraham is Gods favorite.

Yes, that argument could easily be made.

A little beside the point though because I doubt that Abraham is in danger of any judgment.

 

[Matt3737]

Romans 3 (NIV)

What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.

What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:


“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”

But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” Why not say–as some slanderously claim that we say–“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood–to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished– he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

[MENTION=6017]wonkavision[/MENTION]

There is a big difference between the letter and spirit of the law. Threatening someone to faith by damnation shuns the glory of God and is unrighteous. It is by His will and not yours that one comes to faith, please remember that. There are better ways of spreading the Word (like doing good works) than being beligerent to those who may come to faith, but are not yet ready. Your words shall fall on deaf ears for those who are to remain unrepentant, so why then must one usurp the judgment of God in their condemnations? It is for those who will hear that one should speak for.

Matthew 22:34-40

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor asyourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[Blind Bandit]

So I have a friend who works as an RA for a group called grace landing, Grace landing provides youth housing for young adults for either free or reduced rent depending on their needs. On top of this The staff at grace landing assists in getting it residents set up to go to school(G.E.D, high school, technical school or college,) as well helping them find jobs and food while they stay there.

That being said Grace Landing as you might tell by it's name is a Christian organisation, and the have some requirements for the young men that stay there. Some that are simply practical like finding a job, going to school, paying rent and being in by curfew, others that are of a religious nature like the requirement to attend church on Sunday and a Bible study sometime during the week.

Most of the guys at grace landing moan and complain about the rules, but I want your opinions on them, particularly the religious rules is it. What do you guys think?

They sound like a disgrace to charity organizations. You help others out because its the right thing to do. Not spread their bullshit religion....

 

[the]

You gonna weigh back in on this [MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]?

 

[wonkavision]

[MENTION=6017]wonkavision[/MENTION]

There is a big difference between the letter and spirit of the law. Threatening someone to faith by damnation shuns the glory of God and is unrighteous. It is by His will and not yours that one comes to faith, please remember that. There are better ways of spreading the Word (like doing good works) than being beligerent to those who may come to faith, but are not yet ready. Your words shall fall on deaf ears for those who are to remain unrepentant, so why then must one usurp the judgment of God in their condemnations? It is for those who will hear that one should speak for.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved from the wrath to come.

that is the that is the Gospel of Christ, whether people like it or not.

Just read the Scriptures you quoted. its all right there in Romans 3.

All of us are guilty of sin, but "Righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

so BELIEVE on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and be saved from God's wrath against sin.

if you fail to see the grace in that, its because youre spiritually blind.

pray that God would give you sight, and FAITH to believe on his Son.

 

[the]

I doubt that Abraham is in danger of any judgment.

Of course not, he's the favorite.

 

[sprinkles]

Of course not, he's the favorite.

Different scope. A judge may have a favorite widget but that doesn't have to apply to favoritism in the court, i.e. the relevant scope (usually)

 

[the]

Different scope. A judge may have a favorite widget but that doesn't have to apply to favoritism in the court, i.e. the relevant scope (usually)

Why would you judge a widget? Only people get judged in a guilty not guilty sense. Maybe animals too.

 

[sprinkles]

Why would you judge a widget? Only people get judged in a guilty not guilty sense. Maybe animals too.

Well actually I did just get done saying that the two aren't necessarily related, so no judging of the widget is implied, nor any need to judge the widget, nor that the widget is relevant in any way other than being a widget that illustrates itself as not being relevant in any other way.

 

[wonkavision]

You gonna weigh back in on this [MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]?

Yes, frankly, id like to see what Barnabas has to say, other than placating unbelievers.

 

[wonkavision]

Honestly, this widget discussion HAS to end.

i cant stand watching two people who are dangling over Hell wasting their time arguing about guilty widgets.

 

[sprinkles]

Honestly, this widget discussion HAS to end.

i cant stand watching two people who are dangling over Hell wasting their time arguing about guilty widgets.

It was already handled a while ago. No need to worry about having to watch it, it is past tense by now.

 

[Faye]

If you accept help from a religious organization, you generally have to hear their spiel about God. If you have a good study group coordinator and a good church that they can become involved in, then the activities will probably benefit them even if they end up leaving later.

If it is just boring, dogmatic, and proselytizing, it is a wasted effort. The point is to give them a sense of identity and community that they can give to and join in my view.

 

[Barnabas]

They sound like a disgrace to charity organizations. You help others out because its the right thing to do. Not spread their bullshit religion....

somebodies in a bad mood, did a lannister kill your Lord.

You gonna weigh back in on this @Barnabas?

I posted this right before I had to go to work. This is the first chance I've had to respond since my last update.

Yes, frankly, id like to see what Barnabas has to say, other than placating unbelievers.

Personally I've been haven't felt the need to get in on this discussion, you seem fairly set in what you have say, Sprinkles seems set in her thinking as well and I imagine it's going to require more then me quoting scripture over the internet to get her to feel any different.

But that's not what you really want, you want me is for me to comment on the discussion that has basically become a bunch of nuh uhs.

So let me hit the a few things.

Christ did NOT die for everyone. Most of the human race is going to hell.

So let's throw 1 John 2:2 out there, someabout not just dying for our(believers) sins but for the whole worlds

Contrary to popular belief, Christ does NOT love everyone, only those for whom he died.
The rest of the human race is under the curse of sin and death, and are merely awaiting their eternal condemnation.

Going to just drop ever popular John 3:16, which opens with God so loved the "Kosmos," commonly translated world. We all know that when you hear the world. it's not in reference to believers, the World is either the physical earth or this life, all of creation, or the all of those who don't follow Christ(I can site verses for each if you like). It is however never used to refer only to Christians(we have plenty of other names.)

Unless God gives you faith to BELIEVE ON HIS SON, THEN you are going to Hell.

I agrees, if you don't have faith then you can't accept God's grace which without can lead on to hell. I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that you can only believe if God specifically picks you as opposed to others(and if I'm just misreading what you've written then simply ignore this). God gave a faith to everyone to believe which some will reject(some meaning many if not most) while other will be convicted.

----

Now if you want to think I placate non-believers Wonkavision, go ahead but I implore that you seek out most of the other forum members who I've talked to and debated, ask if I placated them, ask if I haven't told people in no uncertain language that they are going to hell if they don't change. You know what I learned from that,? It doesn't work, you know what I've learned from being relaxed about my faith? Nothing important get's talked about. The only way the Gospel get's carried effectively if it's done with love and that's hard, some days it feels impossible and that's without out all the barriers to communication that an online forum presents. The reason people are responding the way they have been isn't because of what you have to say, but because they don't feel any love in what your saying.

But more important then anything else, let me set this straight. I hate the Idea of @sprinkles going to hell. I hate that you sprinkles have had a life that's left you feeling the way you do about God and yourself. I'm not OK with you just going about your life staying the same when God loves and cares about you in such a way that if you could fathom just a smallest portion of it would make you weep. It's that same love that tells you you are worth so much more then anything you've done, anything you've felt and anything any one else on this entire planet has ever told you. That you sprinkles are so valuable to God that he simply couldn't stand to sit idly by watch as you suffer, instead he came to earth bore that suffering for himself, not based on anything you could do, not based on anything you could do. But instead simply because of his love.

 

[the]

Yes, frankly, id like to see what Barnabas has to say, other than placating unbelievers.

Honestly, this widget discussion HAS to end.

i cant stand watching two people who are dangling over Hell wasting their time arguing about guilty widgets.

Is your head about to explode or what?

 

[Mary Shelley]

This actually reminds me of those "free vacations" in which someone pitches you a time share program for the most of the stay.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]

You must understand that I have a paradoxical conviction.

My conviction says that sacrifice is wrong for me to accept. This is paradoxical in that if God is the ultimate right, then I am saying God is wrong. Saying God is wrong does not make God wrong, I could easily be mistaken. Even if I'm not mistaken though, God is powerful, so any ideas to the contrary that I may have are simply irrelevant in the long run.

Reverting this conviction would erase my autonomy, but I don't think God wants to do that. If God wanted to do that he would have created robots.

The fact is for this thing to work there has to be alternatives and they have to be valid. It has to be this way in order to have a being that God loves and the being loves God back.

Without the opportunity to disobey, where is your love? Were you born in love with God? My guess is no.