Why is religious persecution widely accepted?

[Pristinegirl]

Where are you getting the idea that these things ok? Obviously, the person doing these things thinks they are ok - probably out of fear. But, I think most of the world condemns such acts.

They aren't okay, I guess what I mean is I don't understand the reasoning behind it and why its done if it is not allowed, or is it?

Yeah, I have to ask why persecute anyone due to their beliefs? What's next, the persecution of scientists?

I agree

It's politics. That's why.

I don't despise the person, just the religion.

People are not their beliefs and illusionments.

Yea the thing about being part of the western democracy is that one is not allowed to mix religion with politics.

 

[the]

Yea the thing about being part of the western democracy is that one is not allowed to mix religion with politics.

I wonder why it's seen that way?

 

[Faye]

I wonder why it's seen that way?

Liberalism.

 

[Pristinegirl]

I wonder why it's seen that way?

Yea true political liberalism.

 

[Lucifer]

Because religion is a memetic control mechanism. It is a self-referential belief system which contains within itself the instructions for its own propagation. In order to justify themselves against attack by reason, memes place absolute reliance on faith, which is seen as being superior to reason. They also contain self-referential or circular claims to the truth such as...

"This meme says it is the divine truth. Since it is the divine truth whatever its says must be true. Therefore it must be divine truth because it says so and all competing memes must be the work of the Devil".

As such, the attack and destruction of other religions (aka memetic control mechanisms), is seen as justified.

For a more in depth explaination, see this thread...

http://forum.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=4034

So what your saying is that religion is passed on from generation to generation.

This circular pattern cannot be undone by reason because it relies on faith.

And an element of most belief systems is own sense of absolute truth and superiority.

So its existed for a long freaking time
You can't destroy it
and part of it is its sense of self rightousness.

This is all very insightful, but I am more curious about the underlying patterns of constructing another religion as the other and the socioeconomic forces at work. Which I think influence the attempted destruction of the other more then religious dogma in of itself. Religion might be the justification for horrendous acts but is it really the underlying motivation?


The reason why civilization was originally formed was for security. This is why cities were originally founded cities were the original centers of what are now called civilizations. Safety relies on the quick and unified opposition to an outside threat. The original rulers of early cities relied on dogma to unite it's citizens against a common "enemy." The most powerful dogma at there disposal was religion but in reality the reason for defense and attack were economic. This I think is how it may have started.

Did that make sense. This is open speculation of course.

 

[Norton]

Yea the thing about being part of the western democracy is that one is not allowed to mix religion with politics.

I wonder why it's seen that way?

It's called "Separation of Church and State." (Part of the U.S. Constitution, so we don't behave like Iran and its ilk.)

It allows us to laugh at Mark Sanford (et al.) , the hypocrite.

 

[Pristinegirl]

It's called "Separation of Church and State." (Part of the U.S. Constitution, so we don't behave like Iran and its ilk.)

It allows us to laugh at Mark Sanford (et al.) , the hypocrite.

Haha yea perhaps. Pardon me for the influence of Swedish Social Studies; all democratic countries are known as the 'western democracy' here.

 

[Storm]

A lot of societies are centered around religion because religion is where a lot of people find their morality, their laws, and their values. Other religions, thus, are threats to their own way of life. They fear that by allowing others to hold different religions than themselves, that these different values will override their own. People are protective of their way of life.

However, I wouldn't say that religions persecution is "widely accepted." I think it's becoming rarer and rarer as time passes on and people realize that persecuting is the path to violence, not peace.

 

[Shai Gar]

I suspect antisemitism runs a little deeper than "Jesus murderers" and their general religious beliefs. As an ethnic group, Jews historically made people uneasy because of their influence on business, politics and (nowadays)the media. Hitler's antisemitism, and indeed, certain contemporary Islamic leaders, have their political reasons for propogating an anti-Jewish ideas. For whatever reasons, they saw/see Jews as a threat.

Actually, the main reason for societies traditional dislike for Jews is their perceived xenophobia. They tend not to be xenophobic as defined in dictionaries, but the harder core religious do tend to closet themselves off in a group from the rest of society and don't mingle.

Humans are a social lot, and they don't tend to like people who closet themselves off. Fucking Introverts.

 

[Shai Gar]

I wonder why it's seen that way?

Because that's what was written in the USA Constitution. Therefore that's how it should be in the USA.


In the UK however, not so much. It's a constitutional Monarchy, and the Monarch is the Head of the Church of England.

 

[acd]

Yea the thing about being part of the western democracy is that one is not allowed to mix religion with politics.

It would appear that way.

 

[the]

It would appear that way.

I think it should be acceptable to mix religion with politics.

 

[Shai Gar]

My Religion says to kill everyone not of my religion.

I'll my my religion with politics on Uberrogos say so.

 

[acd]

I think it should be acceptable to mix religion with politics.

Why is it acceptable?
Because you believe it?
If one is so passionate about their religion, why don't they follow it themselves, why do they need everyone else go conform? Goes back to Satya's post about religion being a memetic control mechanism.

 

[Satya]

The reason why civilization was originally formed was for security. This is why cities were originally founded cities were the original centers of what are now called civilizations. Safety relies on the quick and unified opposition to an outside threat. The original rulers of early cities relied on dogma to unite it's citizens against a common "enemy." The most powerful dogma at there disposal was religion but in reality the reason for defense and attack were economic. This I think is how it may have started.

Did that make sense. This is open speculation of course.

http://jeffvail.net/atheoryofpower.pdf

 

[Norton]

I think it should be acceptable to mix religion with politics.

Whose religion? Yours or mine or Tom Cruise's?

The very devout Puritans came to the New World to avoid religious persecution in Europe. They hated the government telling them what to believe, so they were vociferously against mixing religion with politics. Today's fundies want to shove their religion down my throat. How are they different from islamo-fascist theocrats?

 

[the]

My Religion says to kill everyone not of my religion.

I'll my my religion with politics on Uberrogos say so.

Go for it. I sense that was your plan from the beginning.

 

[the]

Why is it acceptable?
Because you believe it?
If one is so passionate about their religion, why don't they follow it themselves, why do they need everyone else go conform? Goes back to Satya's post about religion being a memetic control mechanism.

Government and laws are an obvious control mechanism but you aren't crying about that. What is the part that you have a problem with? That you think it is a meme telling you what to do instead of some person blatently telling you what to do?

 

[Satya]

Whose religion? Yours or mine or Tom Cruise's?

The very devout Puritans came to the New World to avoid religious persecution in Europe. They hated the government telling them what to believe, so they were vociferously against mixing religion with politics.

Are you serious? You don't remember a little thing called the Salem Witch Trials?

 

[the]

Whose religion? Yours or mine or Tom Cruise's?

The very devout Puritans came to the New World to avoid religious persecution in Europe. They hated the government telling them what to believe, so they were vociferously against mixing religion with politics. Today's fundies want to shove their religion down my throat. How are they different from islamo-fascist theocrats?

The Puritans not liking it doesn't sway me one way or the other.

The fundies are probably no different than IFT's. Point?