Why I wish I was an INTJ and highly admire them.

[TinyBubbles]

Although an INTJ might try to deny their ''feeling-side'' i feel like if deep down their putting a cold exterior and in reality they truly do care, it's just hard for them to express it, this is a result of tertiary Fi, of course I'm not sure how much does this apply to ENTJ's but in my experience of being around the INTJ forum, they seem to be concern more about this issues then lets say from what I have experienced in the INTPc.

I can honestly say my brother (INTJ) has more of a heart than I do, even though overtly, I'm the nicer one. He has a sense of justice which I very much lack. INTPs can be morally corrupt. Logically, you can rationalize "bad" behavior and therefore condone it. INTJs though, unless very immature, uphold certain standards of moral behavior, and expect you to uphold them too. But unless you know them well, you might not see it, because their outward attitude is not sympathetic. It's better to look at an INTJ's actions rather than their words or attitudes - don't observe HOW they're doing it, but WHAT they do - and you'll notice how much they actually do care.

 

[corvidae]

I've shifted between the IN** types in the last 5 years. I am definitely most comfortable and productive as an INTJ. As an INTJ, I can absorb information at a steady, comfortable pace. I don't have the social anxiety of INFJ, or the sometimes absurd idealism of INFP, or the psychological isolation of INTP. Similar to what Slant said (did you change your username again?), if I have an internet connection and a queue of books to read, I'm comfortable with isolation.

I have an unusual interest and ability to remember trivia. While an INTP may discount the memorization of facts, I find them a useful foundation for more complex ideas. Also, without a high Ne, we find broad knowledge more necessary to find new possibilities.

Similarly, INTJs are much more detail-oriented than INTPs. In thought, INTJs value the process, INTPs value the conclusion. If INTJs reach a mistaken conclusion, our first reaction is to check the logical structure of our argument. INTPs cannot do so as easily; much of their argument is "implied" and "self-evident". INTJs are dense writers, INTPs write in aphorisms.

Socialization is a decent way to kill time and keep in touch with reality, but otherwise it's not too important to INTJs (no offense, I came here as an INFJ and I'm not leaving any time soon!) Give me a textbook and I can spend a good hour learning, and enjoying it.

 

[corvidae]

Although an INTJ might try to deny their ''feeling-side'' i feel like if deep down their putting a cold exterior and in reality they truly do care, it's just hard for them to express it, this is a result of tertiary Fi, of course I'm not sure how much does this apply to ENTJ's but in my experience of being around the INTJ forum, they seem to be concern more about this issues then lets say from what I have experienced in the INTPc.

I agree. Even when we can't find the words to express emotions, we do appreciate, to a certain extent, when people care for us. INTPs are more likely to see emotion as a novelty which lacks intellectual rigor, and which, therefore, should be shunned.

 

[poshlost]

I cannot relate at all to this emotionless, conclusion driven INTP you folks are describing.

 

[corvidae]

I cannot relate at all to this emotionless, conclusion driven INTP you folks are describing.

That's probably a good thing =D

 

[poshlost]

It is, but I mean I don't see how these are INTP characteristics.

 

[TinyBubbles]

It is, but I mean I don't see how these are INTP characteristics.

I'd have to agree. INTPs seem more random rather than conclusion driven, and they are definitely not emotionless, though they're not ones to revel in their emotions either.

 

[Raccoon Love]

I'd have to agree. INTPs seem more random rather than conclusion driven, and they are definitely not emotionless, though they're not ones to revel in their emotions either.

Yep indeed, this is due to the fact that INTP's last function is Fe, which is very hard for them to grasp or understand due to it being their last function and it often does not come out ''right'' but once an INTP learns to develop such function through the years, they can actually be pretty warm and welcoming, it just takes a lot of time and experience for this to happen.

 

[poshlost]

Yep indeed, this is due to the fact that INTP's last function is Fe, which is very hard for them to grasp or understand due to it being their last function and it often does not come out ''right'' but once an INTP learns to develop such function through the years, they can actually be pretty warm and welcoming, it just takes a lot of time and experience for this to happen.

But you're forgetting about Fi, and that's the major flaw in the cognitive functions concept. Fe is pretty much my last function and I am not interested in it, but my Fi nearly is equal to my Ti.

But I guess probably Fi's position is arbitrary when it comes to different INTPs, so some might have it as low as Fe, but I noticed most have it rather developed.

 

[Raccoon Love]

But you're forgetting about Fi, and that's the major flaw in the cognitive functions concept. Fe is pretty much my last function and I am not interested in it, but my Fi nearly is equal to my Ti.

But I guess probably Fi's position is arbitrary when it comes to different INTPs, so some might have it as low as Fe, but I noticed most have it rather developed.

The reason for such development is that your more comfortable using your shadow process then your actual last function, this is actually not uncommon, I seen it in INFJ''s too who have lower Se scores, I think reason being is that we try to avoid our last function as we find it annoying or unnecessary and we focus on our shadow functions but once we learn to use such last function it can be pretty rewarding.

 

[poshlost]

But Fe is only theoretically my function. It actually isn't. Feeling wise I am naturally and healthily Fi driven and I don't think I'm gonna change that for the sake of a sketchy flawed system.

 

[Raccoon Love]

But Fe is only theoretically my function. It actually isn't. Feeling wise I am naturally and healthily Fi driven and I don't think I'm gonna change that for the sake of a sketchy flawed system.

Of course, I am only going by theory, we are all unique creatures and of course we all don't fit the MBTI box, but I guess since this is a MBTI based forum, seeking to understand such system is one of the purposes, again this does not apply to everyone.

 

[poshlost]

So does questioning them. What I'm saying is if we're understanding INTPs theoretically as Ti>Ne>Si>Fe, doesn't that mean that Fe is supposed to be INTP's weakest function rather than it being one of his strongholds?

What does that make of Fi though? How does it fit into the theory? That I don't know. Does Fi being "a shadow function" necessarily mean it's weak?
I see INTPs' feeling usually being defined by Fe, and this always seemed odd.

Edit: anyhow, you don't have to respond. I'm just extremely bored and thus debating the intricacies of a system I consider deeply flawed and sketchy. I don't think my questions are even relevant to the system, so nevermind.

 

[TinyBubbles]

Of course, I am only going by theory, we are all unique creatures and of course we all don't fit the MBTI box, but I guess since this is a MBTI based forum, seeking to understand such system is one of the purposes, again this does not apply to everyone.

Can I just say that this highlights one of the dangers of believing too strongly in personality theories. Instead of they describing you and your natural traits, you conform your behavior to match THEM. If you're naturally feeling based and your personality type says otherwise, you might try to consciously or subconsciously suppress that part of you to better match what you believe about yourself.

 

[Raccoon Love]

So does questioning them. What I'm saying is if we're understanding INTPs theoretically as Ti>Ne>Si>Fe, doesn't that mean that Fe is supposed to be INTP's weakest function rather than it being one of his strongholds?

What does that make of Fi though? How does it fit into the theory? That I don't know. Does Fi being "a shadow function" necessarily mean it's weak?
I see INTPs' feeling usually being defined by Fe, and this always seemed odd.

According to theory Fi is a shadow process(in INTP's), the INTP does not naturally use this process instead it relies on it as a shadow, meaning under certain circumstances of stress or pressure, this of course once again does not apply to everyone, this is just what the usual INTP set looks like, Fe is an actual process that INTP's might use naturally, the only reason it might be your last at the moment is because you have yet to learn how to use it and find the process sort of frustrating and annoying, again this is all theory, it does not mean the shadow function is weak, but it means that you utilize it in more situations than the average INTP would, which is what might separate you from other INTP's, we are all different after all.

sorry for causing much debate.

 

[Raccoon Love]

Can I just say that this highlights one of the dangers of believing too strongly in personality theories. Instead of they describing you and your natural traits, you conform your behavior to match THEM. If you're naturally feeling based and your personality type says otherwise, you might try to consciously or subconsciously suppress that part of you to better match what you believe about yourself.

I agree with this and fully understand this, I am not trying to fall in the MBTI box, or make someone behave a certain way, after all the purpose of this test was for us to understand ourselves better rather than just merely change our persona, I agree that this should not be taken seriously, instead it should be looked at as a helpful aid.

 

[Norton]

As an INTP, I've never met an INTJ I didn't like. They've been great partners to work with and in business. Very effective people.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

The core of an INTP is *truth, and emotions are biased.
The core of an INTJ is function, so they are conveniently more inclined to feel emotion since it may be required (tool).

 

[James]

I read through these posts as I was interested in getting the views of others on INTJ's. I'm one myself but with quite an overlap to INFJ and I have to admit my own impression of some other INTJ's I've met and worked with, is that whilst they can be very effective, those who have not developed their F function can be very cold and lacking in empathy. Some even seem to revel in that which I detest.

I do think though that INTJ's can accidentally give an impression of aloofness which they don't intend. Is that maybe true of all introverts to some extent? I think the best part of the MBTI is to try and work on the opposite functions so that you can develop the non preferences and overcome barriers. I have had the misfortune to come across some poorly developed ENTJ's at work and they really could do with some work on that !

On a total tangent I just saw quite an interesting youtube video on called[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eC14GonZnU"] A New Kind of Science by Stephen Wolfram[/ame]

I thought it was excellent so I've put in the link if you're interested. Just to show I have worked on the F function, I hope you're all well !

 

[slant]

So does questioning them. What I'm saying is if we're understanding INTPs theoretically as Ti>Ne>Si>Fe, doesn't that mean that Fe is supposed to be INTP's weakest function rather than it being one of his strongholds?

What does that make of Fi though? How does it fit into the theory? That I don't know. Does Fi being "a shadow function" necessarily mean it's weak?
I see INTPs' feeling usually being defined by Fe, and this always seemed odd.

Edit: anyhow, you don't have to respond. I'm just extremely bored and thus debating the intricacies of a system I consider deeply flawed and sketchy. I don't think my questions are even relevant to the system, so nevermind.

Stop getting bored and spamming up my thread, you INTP! There's a time for talk and there's a time for MY talk!

OBEY.