What is wrong with this world? | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

What is wrong with this world?

You are using too much judgement here seeker. Step back and think of things on a smaller level. When you were born you were free from all of life's judgements. I understand hunger and pain and pictures of people in that situation pull heart strings. But the world all fit's together. I have seen animals eaten alive by other animals. It made me feel sad to see them in pain and die but it is life. We as humans can make our world a better place for all of us but it seems our attitudes are in the wrong place. Plus when you add in governments and dictators things get reall messed up. I feel for the world but I can only change so much the rest is up to the world.

I posted this in my blog it seems relevant to this discussion..

"It seems to me that man is trapped inside of his own mind. Made prisoner by his own thoughts and desires, and some if almost by chance figure it out and free themselves from the bounds of the world to exist on a higher plane above all the lies and deceptions to become the man that God intended them to be." efromm..
 
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I wasn't that judgemental. I asked for an explination why it's a perfect world (edit: think i missunderstood that post).

What you said makes a bit sense.
But on the other hand ... "But the world all fit's together" What do you mean by that?
Should I understand that as everything that happens around the world is natural? Things happen and cant be fixed due to it's natures way of doing stuff?


I understand that both of you (or more) see this world as beautiful. And ofcourse it is. Both humans, other animals and nature is beautiful.

But i hope you don't think the world is perfect. or?

(edited a bit, missunderstood some posts, sry :( )
 
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What I mean by all the world fit's together is this. Look at nature. You are a part of nature, but thru upbringing and domestication you believe you are not. Now in nature you are just a piece of meat. Just like a cow or chicken. I think you get the idea here. Now millions of years of geologic time have passed. But the species and animals on this planet have evolved to adapt to their surroundings, you have too. But unlike the other animals in this world you have taken yourself out of nature and subsequently out of the food chain. Sure people get eaten every now and then but you are just another part of all the things going on around you in nature. I think the world is perfect I just don't think man is. It has evolved to survive and to me that is perfection in it's self. How can man control any behavior on a cellular level? It always seems to get away from him when he tries to. Nature has it's own way of taking care of things. Man cannot be perfect because he was not meant to be. We must strive for perfection. But really in the end what is it? What is all of it in the end? I think in the bigger picture we need to ask ourselves why? Why does it have to be that way and how can we make it better if we are dissatisfied? But just because you are does not mean that anyone else is dissatisfied. And there lies the problem with all humanity in a nut shell. We were all better off when we did not know each other exisited. But even then we killed each other and neglected one another. So in the end man is the problem. I am not sure if man will ever not be the problem. And in the end I think man is lost..
 
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Depends on your definition of perfect, if perfect = natural then everything is perfect, but if perfect = ideal then for humans the world isn't perfect for them.
 
What kind of perfection are you looking for?Perhaps humans feed on imperfection to grow.We will never be satisfied with anything because we are imperfect beings.We just keep on feeding on temporary materialistic joy.We just want more.

It's just confusing sometimes when i tell myself this imperfection is already a perfection.Probably because there must be a balance in this world which would weigh things equally so everything doesn't go crashing down.
But what happens when we have made it perfect?just what is normal?Nothing's normal.

My teacher is a christian and religious person.He always tells me about god although i keep quiet or i'll get scolded for every word i say.My violin lessons become religious lessons.... either way there were some things i really disagree with him but anyway:focus: i did ask him the same question.He gave a unfriendly answer and said you only want to know everything about the universe. You are not god.:yell:Whatever i say here might be wrong but i am sure there might be certain answers that can't be answered or explained which is why there is a word called mystery.Just don't get too absorbed into it.Take your time.
 
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Fair enough, i buy that :)

But this is perhaps two different questions. One would be:
What is wrong with this world. And I vote efromms answer to be somewhat the correct answer :D

And then theres the next question:
What is wrong with mankind?

Thanks for the answer anyway. Now i understand what you meant.
But i hope you agree that mankind isn't perfect atleast >.<
 
meiro said:
What kind of perfection are you looking for?Perhaps humans feed on imperfection to grow.We will never be satisfied with anything because we are imperfect beings.We just keep on feeding on temporary materialistic joy.We just want more.
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Life isn't fair ... But i'm not gonna be happy as long as there is people starving to death. That's the stupidest thing ever.
 
Seeker said:
But this is perhaps two different questions. One would be:
What is wrong with this world.

And then theres the next question:
What is wrong with mankind?
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Reading Satya's original question again, I think this thread's intended question is probably is more along the lines of "What is wrong with this world (that mankind has made for itself)?"

As far as what is wrong with this world (Earth), I personally feel the answer is: Nothing, except mankind. Left to themselves, it's other residents evolve to survive in the conditions that exist. Left to itself, it could heal itself.

As far as what is wrong with this world that we, mankind, have made, I personally feel the answer is too long and the bullet points so obvious as to not need enumeration.
 
True enough but things can't always be fair....because it's what we make out of this stupid ugly world.The reason is because of us again no matter how much it comes back to.

Global warming and everything leads to climate changes.Farmers depend on crops to feed their family and themselves and we created global warming.Yay floods and tsunami are coming.Let's run!Noooo my plants died...alright,i understand.. and then our agriculture suffers and then prices rises up.Poor people have no money.They lost almost everything.Some people really can't eat because they don't have to mood to since they family died from diseases,tsunami,drought...etc

If you forget about credit cards,electronic stuff,your nice Porsche Lamborghini car,beautiful bike and laziness to throw your things in the bin ARGHGAHWGRHEAGT,EGT ok there are so many things.I will save the details.There are so many things to say THAT I WILL GO CRAZY!!!!

Either way we aren't helping the poor ones by occupying their jobs and doing business and soon i will be doing that in a couple of years.Many just think that it serves them right for not going school or because the people are disabled...etc they say it's too bad for you but who cares i am living a life of richness.Beggars shouldn't be treated as trash of society either.They should be praised for their bravery to stand out there with millions of people critics and ignoring their existence.

In The End,It's just us standing there again.
 
Oh my. Pretty much everything is wrong with this world, up to the point where I feel compelled to stop caring about the future of humankind. People are way too consumed in this materialistic, selfish and greedy social atmosphere that is being fed by the corporations. And there is no gratitude to be found in fighting against the decline of human spirit, since most people just love their gizomes.

I honestly believe that most of the modern world's problems originate from that ideology that could be summarised as "Whoever ends up with the most toys wins".

On the other hand, I don't really know if things have ever been any better. Today's zeitgeist has it's horrible problems, but as far as I can think there has always been something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Slavery, religious fanaticism, opression of minorities, poverty, disease, tyranny, etc. So maybe there is no hope. As soon as we as a species get rid of a vice we come up with a few new ones.
 
factory farming
 
Very interesting thread!

rainrise said:
factory farming
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+1.

I think what's wrong is that people can know about suffering and actually say "I guess... I don't care."
I also get the feeling (and I am not sure how to express this) that we have gotten so used to consumerism that we sometimes approach other people as ''products''. It's like the world is one big mcdonald's drive thru: you see your options, quickly pick what might be of interest to you, and either consume it or throw it out. Why don't people actually try to get to know their fellow humans?
 
Satya said:
Tell me INFJs, what is wrong with this world? What do you see that is broken? What is it that enrages you that people will not acknowledge? What do you wish to see in this world more than anything?
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The world ain't broken,

Pain and suffering were meant to exist, in that light the world is working fine.

FYI I'd be a fool not to try and mitigate the suffering.
 
excellent thread btw.

I think we might be getting bogged down in the miseries of this world and blinding ourselves somewhat to the good things.

I know that many people are of the impression that humankind are the culprits of the world's imperfections but I wonder how much context this needs to be put in before we can say this.

Yes I agree that 21st centuary consumerism and greed and a lack of kindnes to our fellow man/woman has thrown us into a deep abyss of suffering and narcissism, with closed minds so that our prison is hard to escape from. But the vestiges of human kindness and sharing still remain, however deeply buried they may be! We can see this in all walks of life- even through little acts of kindness on a daily basis.

Furthermore, although we may say that the media and politcians have shaped our lives to this extent of imperfection, none of them had abilities to see what their actions would bring. What person really believes they are evil anyway? I'm sure that politicians start of wanting to 'help people' before being sucked under. And the Media simply want to open people's eyes to the world. And I've never met a banker, who although may be corrupt, isn't working to better himself and himself and his family- or maybe even his community!

Perhaps the little effects that our actions, however honourable, have contribute more than we think to this imperfect world, which goes back to the point that you get out of something, what you put in.

I hope I havn't bored you all too much- i don't mean to anger anyone either, I just can't believe that humankind is the sole contributor of this imperfect world. After all, no one can deny the existance of natural evil or evils, as well as good, which happens in the animal kingdom.

(prepares to be blasted...) :)
 
I'll tell you what's wrong with the world, it's humans. We are conscious beings that feel and sense and think. If we didn't exist I promise you all suffering would disappear. The moment we began thinking rather than just doing, the world was doomed. Since we can't simply stop thinking, it is our responsibility to help out our fellow humans and to try to save the natural world that we are destroying. If we can escape our own egos and stop worrying about our own problems and instead focus on everyone else's problems, all of the problems of the world would simply disappear.

This is of course impossible.
 
minority funk said:
I'll tell you what's wrong with the world, it's humans. We are conscious beings that feel and sense and think.
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Being devil's advocate here but..

Arguably all beings feel and sense and think. Obviously when you think about what is different about human beings, you think, ''ah- we have RATIONAL thought. This makes us different from the cat, dog, ant etc...'' And yet countless studies have shown the intelligence of other animals.

One might now argue that, because our intelligence is superior, then we ought to make thoses rational decisions, and it brings us back to the question of what is wrong with the world, for if humans did this, then the world would be a better place!!??

But no, not neccessarily it wouldn't. Even if we ignore the problem of natural evil, and simply focus on moral evil, which for arguments sake, we say comes from humans, then would the world really be a better place if we kept to the above rule?

I would argue that it wouldn't, for the plain and simple reason that evidence shows that it hasn't. We have freewill. Which means that some people will go against the flow and do something immoral.

(If you are a little confused here, please bear with me- this is an alternative argument to humans being what's wrong with the world- I'm just getting there! :) )

Now some people might think that this is getting to be a Augustinian theodicy look-a-like, but it's not. This is because I would argue that everything has free will. (radical!!! lol)

But I do truly believe this. Even the lowliest ant has the willl to go against the flow, even if he may be savaged by his fellows for doing thus.

I look at my cat, who is exceedingly intelligent, and keeps everyone happy by giving us alternate cuddles. (Ie; starts off on me and then my mum etc...!)- Is this not exercising his free will and decision-making skills?

I believe that it is. Because everything has free will, then everything will at somepoint make a worng decision. Nothing's perfect. Therefore everything is what is wrong with the world. Annd also nothing. For without even the slimiest slug, this world wouldn't be here to make a mess of.

Now as I said- all this is just my quickly thought through theory!
And it probably just shows my youthful optimism and does not adress Natural evil at all- we might need another thread for that one!!
 
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Yes I agree everything has free will but animals (like young children) operate on a pre-conventional moral level. Young children learn not to do things because the previous time they got spanked, not because they know the difference between right and wrong (at such a young age). A domesticated dog wont jump up to the table at dinner time out of fear of being scolded, not because they know that it's the "wrong" thing to do.

We know the difference from right and wrong (and I highly doubt that animals harbor ill-intent for other living creatures). We have ego's that make us centered on ourselves rather than on just mere survival. Animals kill to survive. I have never heard of a group of any type of animal organizing to kill mass numbers of other animals (especially of the same species) for any reason other than survival. If there is some Antelope genocide I am unaware of, do please inform me. There is something about our rational thinking that gives us the ability to separate right from wrong and it is this ability that makes us uniquely human.

All animals have free will, but we have the ability to foresee the consequences of our actions and to tell the difference between right and wrong. Right and wrong, moral standards, and evil are all creations of human life. We are the sole reason that bad things happen (excluding natural disastrous for obvious reasons). I am not advocating that we punish ourselves for this, just take responsibility that it is an inherent trait of mankind.
 
thank you, minority funk. You have given me much food for thought.

minority funk said:
We know the difference from right and wrong (and I highly doubt that animals harbor ill-intent for other living creatures). We have ego's that make us centered on ourselves rather than on just mere survival.
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Good point, but I do wonder if we have truly reached that point. When does the fight for survival really stop? After all, it's not like other animals cannot kill us. And we are all trying to survive from death. Maybe our self centered ways help us survive by looking out for 'number one'. Isn't that why we keep searching for cures to rapidly evolving diseases? Isn't it just our instinct telling us to find a way to survive- any way?

minority funk said:
Right and wrong, moral standards, and evil are all creations of human life.
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Up until here, your argument resonated with me. I just deleted a pargraph I wrote about your previous point, as I realised I agreed with you! :) However I do not agree with this part of you argument and this is why:-

Although I do agree that our uniquness ability of forward thinking and ability to make moral judgements should make us more responsible for our actions and less egotistical, clearly it hasn't. As I understnd it (and correct me if I've gotton the wrong end of the stick-it often happens!) you are now saying that it is these inherrent properties of humankind have created moral evil?
However, can this not work two ways? For we have just as much ability to choose the 'right and moral path' as we do chose the egotistical one which leads to evil. Which means that whether evil occurs or not is down to free will and not just the existance of man.

So really, evil is all relative to how moral someone is.

minority funk said:
We are the sole reason that bad things happen (excluding natural disastrous for obvious reasons). I am not advocating that we punish ourselves for this, just take responsibility that it is an inherent trait of mankind.
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Therefore, although we may be solely resonsible for some bad things, we are also solely responsible for some good things.

Now of course a good act does not cancell out a bad one or visa versa, but the existance of good acts committed solely by humans does question the reasoning that if humans didn't than things wouldn't be so 'wrong' with this world, because on the other hand, things wouldn't be so good either.

As you can see, my position has changed slightly and I thank you for this as it means that I am becoming more flexible. Our debate is doing me a lot of good, not to mention how interesting it is! :D
 
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