What do you guys think about Arizona's new immigration law?

[arbygil]

Like I said, it is Arizona's problem. The state is bound to lose a lot of money if it handles the law poorly.

It doesn't happen in Texas. It just becomes part of "what you expect" and unless you have enough money for a public interest group fighting the instances and keeping the information in the press, it gets ignored like everything else.

Arizona, California, and Texas all have illegal immigrants. It's impossible to tell illegal immigrants from legal ones. There's no way to handle this law without stepping on someone's toes, no matter where you are, and the only reason Arizona might lose money on this is because it's a public issue - for now. Give it a couple years when it's no longer in the news. And then let's compare arrest records of Arizona US citizens, and see if the percentage of arrests of Hispanic citizens has gone up significantly, or down significantly.

 

[the]

It's not just about the law, IMO - it's about people. We have people doing the jobs that most Americans wouldn't want.

I know a lot of people who want these jobs.

 

[TinyBubbles]

So America is responsible for the desperation in Mexico?

Instead of trying to make their own country a better place, they are coming here to work illegally without so much as a work visa. And most of them don't stay. They just return back to Mexico. In the process, they keep wages low in our country because they will work for dirt cheap and they make no effort to become tax paying citizens.

it's not as simple as staying back to make their own countries better, countries prosper when their governments are stable, when inflation is kept under control and when local supply and demand isn't rocked by fluctuations in the global market. individually, people don't have many choices. of course this doesn't mean america is responsible for mexico's (or any other countries') welfare, but it does mean that what illegal immigrants are doing is not entirely because of what they have or haven't done in their lives, they're influenced by factors far beyond their personal control.

 

[Satya]

Yes, but how long could it be until being Hispanic in appearance is suspicion enough for committing a crime; the crime of illegal immigration? As a kid I was stopped numerous times by police out of "suspicion" and I doubt it was any more than being a punky looking kid.

Let's get down to what the law actually says...

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.

When taken to court, a cop is going to have a hard time justifying that race alone justifies asking someone for their papers. It simply isn't reasonable. The law gives local cops a lot of latitude, but it will only take one messup to cost the state an enormous amount of money.

 

[arbygil]

Judging by how controversial this law is, not many at all. Honesty, I will tend to disbelieve many reports given initally. There are people who use the race card as an excuse, and there are so many people against this law to begin with they will try to do that with no cause or hesistation.

It shouldn't happen at all, Indy. I hate to say it, but you probably won't be pulled over for failing to signal or not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. And cops won't follow you in nicer neighborhoods. I say probably - it may happen.

But these things do happen, and it's not necessarily a "race card" issue. It's police trying to enforce a law that targets a certain group of people. That's a foul deal. That's like saying we suddenly had an influx of Swedish crime gangs, and so anyone with blond hair and blue eyes would suddenly be suspicious and subject to deportation if they don't have their wallet on them.

 

[Satya]

it's not as simple as staying back to make their own countries better, countries prosper when their governments are stable, when inflation is kept under control and when local supply and demand isn't rocked by fluctuations in the global market. individually, people don't have many choices. of course this doesn't mean america is responsible for mexico's (or any other countries') welfare, but it does mean that what illegal immigrants are doing is not entirely because of what they have or haven't done in their lives, they're influenced by factors far beyond their personal control.

If America goes down the tank, does that mean you are going to run off to Canada instead of sticking it out down here?

I understand why Mexicans are doing what they are doing, but the question you have to ask yourself is if America is really helping them by letting them come here. Or is America enabling them to avoid addressing their own problems?

 

[Reon]

it's not as simple as staying back to make their own countries better, countries prosper when their governments are stable, when inflation is kept under control and when local supply and demand isn't rocked by fluctuations in the global market. individually, people don't have many choices. of course this doesn't mean america is responsible for mexico's (or any other countries') welfare, but it does mean that what illegal immigrants are doing is not entirely because of what they have or haven't done in their lives, they're influenced by factors far beyond their personal control.

I can't make a decision on which side I'm on because of this concept, why exactly is it "good" for america to simply ignore the illegal immigrants who are invading this country when, at the same time, you have people who are going through our ridiculous customs system only to be, for lack of a better term, cut in line by someone who jumped a border. Yes, people are influenced by outside factors but why should the U.S. have a heart to the individuals who simply aren't citizens? We have american people who are also homeless and WANT a job, so it's not as if American people aren't suffering either. Also, another thing, this country was built by immigrants, yes, but why exactly does that matter now?

 

[arbygil]

I know a lot of people who want these jobs.

Some might. But not for the pay. People want jobs to feed their family or to have certain comforts. Even if illegal immigrants didn't take the jobs, I'm sure someone in the US would take those jobs for less pay than they should receive, but I doubt it happens that often.

I see a lot of Hispanic men willing to stand out on a street corner in a group, waiting for a truck to pick them up to take them to a job they've never seen. I've yet to see a group of similar White males or Black males waiting on a corner, doing the same thing. Not saying it doesn't occur, but I haven't seen it.

 

[IndigoSensor]

It shouldn't happen at all, Indy. I hate to say it, but you probably won't be pulled over for failing to signal or not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. And cops won't follow you in nicer neighborhoods. I say probably - it may happen.

But these things do happen, and it's not necessarily a "race card" issue. It's police trying to enforce a law that targets a certain group of people. That's a foul deal. That's like saying we suddenly had an influx of Swedish crime gangs, and so anyone with blond hair and blue eyes would suddenly be suspicious and subject to deportation if they don't have their wallet on them.

That would suck, but I would have nothing to hide. If I got harrassed, oh well. I have been harrased several times before by cops. I didn't have anything to hide so it didn't bother me. Annoying yes, but nothing bad happened.

This whole situation is a big mess, but something needs to be done about it. You said earlier that no one wants to step on anyones toes, but it is unavoidable. Someone's toes needs to be stepped on.

 

[Raccoon Love]

If America goes down the tank, does that mean you are going to run off to Canada instead of sticking it out down here?

I understand why Mexicans are doing what they are doing, but the question you have to ask yourself is if America is really helping them by letting them come here. Or is America enabling them to avoid addressing their own problems?

Many of this people work their whole life just to be able to support their family in Mexico with basic needs and perhaps have the hope of some day put a business in their home country. The fact is that many of this people are desperate. They need some sort of income and opportunity and America is at times the only place where they can find such offer.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Many of this people work their whole life just to be able to support their family in Mexico with basic needs and perhaps have the hope of some day put a business in their home country. The fact is that many of this people are desperate. They need some sort of income and opportunity and America is at times the only place where they can find such offer.

Two wrongs does not make a right. It sucks for them, but then coming here and breaking law is also illegal and just because they can't make ends meet and they aren't in imminent danger, is not justified by their life situation back home.

 

[Satya]

I can't see why people are getting upset. Arizona is going to face repercussions for this bill for years to come. Food, landscaping, and construction prices are going to go up considerably. Many people are going to boycott Arizona. They are going to lose an incredible amount of money. It's a lot of pan to make a point and that isn't even considering the civil cases they will face from law enforcement who abuse the law.

 

[Barnabas]

what about the citizens whom are/could be harassed for not carrying "papers"?

you can't drive without a license, can't buy tabacco or alcohol with out an I.D.
people don't complain about these "papers"

Many places you can't even work without some form of state I.D.

Just add Citizenship as part of your license or state I.D.

Cop has problem show him the I.D.

 

[arbygil]

That would suck, but I would have nothing to hide. If I got harrassed, oh well. I have been harrased several times before by cops. I didn't have anything to hide so it didn't bother me. Annoying yes, but nothing bad happened.

This whole situation is a big mess, but something needs to be done about it. You said earlier that no one wants to step on anyones toes, but it is unavoidable. Someone's toes needs to be stepped on.

It sucks, and it makes you feel as if you have something to hide. It makes you feel less human because suddenly who you are is considered 'bad'. That's not right, in my opinion.

I think there can be a balance, sure. But as someone said earlier (I think it was May) people are HIRING the illegal immigrants for something. The onus shouldn't be on the people - it should be on the companies and individuals. Or, have the companies/individuals pay higher taxes if they choose to hire folks in a certain bracket.

It would be better to start out clean and just say that if you can prove you've worked in the US for six months, and you have the testimony of one or more employers attesting to this, then you have work visa privileges regardless of immigration status and you won't be forced to return to your home country. But you need to spend the majority of your money in the United States, and keep the economy going by spending here.

Illegal immigrants also fuel our economy. They buy things here as well. They support local businesses and communities. As much as they supposedly "take away" they're putting into our economy.

 

[Satya]

Many of this people work their whole life just to be able to support their family in Mexico with basic needs and perhaps have the hope of some day put a business in their home country. The fact is that many of this people are desperate. They need some sort of income and opportunity and America is at times the only place where they can find such offer.

RL, we can't continue to enable Mexico to avoid addressing its own problems. We are causing a lot of the problems in Mexico because we are allowing them to work here. They don't have to fix their problems if they can sneak across the border to work somewhere better and safer. That is something that should be on the conscience of every American.

 

[Kavalan]

you can't drive without a license, can't buy tabacco or alcohol with out an I.D.
people don't complain about these "papers"

Many places you can't even work without one some form of state I.D.

Just add Citizenship as part of your license or state I.D.

Cop has problem show him the I.D.

driving, alcohol and tobacco is not compulsory... I can go an entire week without any form of ID on me and not be bothered. I should not have to carry information to verify my existence in this nation.

Edit: said week involves me working and going to and from my campus.

 

[That Girl]

So America is responsible for the desperation in Mexico?

Well, if you want to be technical, we had a major role in it.

What's the issue?
Corn.
Mainly, American corn subsidies and NAFTA.
The numbers we're looking at are over a million Mexicans losing their agricultural jobs since NAFTA went into effect in 1994. Tariffs that protected the industry ended in January 2008. Thus, these farmers were put into direct competition with U.S. farmers. Do you even need examples that compare the two in technology? If you look at the Department of Agriculture, a U.S. farm can produce up to a metric ton of corn in a half-hour (and this is probably not up-to-date information). America is exporting this corn to Mexico. We're forcing these people to find work in other places and their isn't enough jobs in their own cities, i.e. coming to the United States to find work and to, hopefully, bring that money back to their families. We're talking about a rational attempt at survival.

The worst part? We expected it. Nader is reported as estimation that

 

[Satya]

It doesn't happen in Texas. It just becomes part of "what you expect" and unless you have enough money for a public interest group fighting the instances and keeping the information in the press, it gets ignored like everything else.

Arizona, California, and Texas all have illegal immigrants. It's impossible to tell illegal immigrants from legal ones. There's no way to handle this law without stepping on someone's toes, no matter where you are, and the only reason Arizona might lose money on this is because it's a public issue - for now. Give it a couple years when it's no longer in the news. And then let's compare arrest records of Arizona US citizens, and see if the percentage of arrests of Hispanic citizens has gone up significantly, or down significantly.

I have no doubt the law is unfair. But this is the consequence of a federal government that has done nothing to address immigration.

 

[Barnabas]

driving and tobacco is not compulsory... I can go an entire week without any form of ID on me and not be bothered. I should not have to carry information to verify my existence in this nation.

It's not varify your existence, it's to varify your right to be apart of the nation.

Do realy think that having to cary a small piece of plastic is such a terrible thing. I doubt this lae will lead to cops stoping every citizen on the street to check there papers, just as cops don't stop drivers just see if they have there license.

However if you commited some sort of crime and were found without citizeneship then your could easily be deealt with accordingly.

 

[arbygil]

I have no doubt the law is unfair. But this is the consequence of a federal government that has done nothing to address immigration.

True, to a point. But I can't think of any nation that addresses immigration issues fairly and equitably, unless they open their borders. There's not an easy answer to this question. There are too many people who will get hurt by forced migration, and putting rules and restrictions this late in the game is closing the barn door after the horses left years ago.

The real questions are: What's best for the economy, and what's best from a human rights perspective? What's the ethical thing to do? Those are the only questions that require answers at this point.