Vaccines Debate
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I'm literally asking you. No begging you to show how my points are wrong. That is exactly the opposite of confirmation bias.
*begin the random diatribe of muir's conspiracy theory rather than actually respond to the points of the argument*
The article is independent of the oxford journals. It was only published in the oxford journals as well as a number of other places:
https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=Clin+Infect+Dis.+(2009)+++48++(4):++456-461.++
By looking at the google search, you see a number of books, other journals, and university cites that have the same article.
Further, I posted a number of other articles from a large number of other sources.
It's pointless to dismiss evidence in the way that you are. It's literally cherry picking incarnate.
And lastly, even if it were true, you are only saying why i'm wrong. YOU NEED TO ESTABLISH HOW. STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION.
And there it is folks. Failure to address the counter points. Instead of arguing against my points, you decide to go off on your little irrelevant tangent. You don't even understand these points I bet. I doubt you even read through my entire post.
Muir, your arguments are pointless until you have a way to respond to what I posted.
Again, show me direct quotes from my post. Show me HOW I'm wrong, not why. I want to see you connect the dots from A to B to C. I want you to spell it out for me, with all the technical lingo, in a direct response to my post. Please
*and now begin the random spamming of pointless articles AGAIN so muir can make himself feel like he isn't completely clueless on this issue, and so that he can maintain some semblance of his superiority in his mind*
You're self serving attitude is clear here muir. You don't want to help people. You don't want to find the truth. You don't even want to show people the evil. All you want is to show people how smart you are. All you want is to convince people that you are right. Forget about you actually being right. You just want to seem right or wise.
You don't care about others. Here, you only care about yourself. Why else would you get so bitter when people try to argue against you. Need I quote all the times in the past in this thread when you would yell and insult people for "not reading the thread" or "not doing their research"? That only gave you a way to dismiss them off-hand. If your intention was to help them learn, then you would have helped them rather than berated them.
You aren't fooling anyone anymore muir. Your self-aggrandizing attitude is clear.
Like people, I know this is sorta an in-between question, but....
Why must vaccines always be given so early in life, would it not be safer in general for the development of a baby if the vaccination was done at the latest possible date if at all ?
I was thinking that the amount of stuff that gets injected to you is quite a lot and If I am not mistaken stays in your bloodstream for a long time if it ever leaves completely leaves at all.
Now this may just be my imagination but I would think that that could be rather dangerous at a young age. I would assume you need all the good blood you could get instead of like a percentage of vaccine blasting through your brains...
If we assume that vaccines are necessary, could it be that the dosage and timing at which it is given that has a negative influence on a child's development ?
And if so, should we not wait as long as possible in order to allow the child to grow as much as possible so there is less change of a negative side effect occurring?
Are bigger children less likely develop side effects or does that not matter at all ?
Why must vaccines always be given so early in life, would it not be safer in general for the development of a baby if the vaccination was done at the latest possible date if at all ?
I was thinking that the amount of stuff that gets injected to you is quite a lot and If I am not mistaken stays in your bloodstream for a long time if it ever leaves completely leaves at all.
Now this may just be my imagination but I would think that that could be rather dangerous at a young age. I would assume you need all the good blood you could get instead of like a percentage of vaccine blasting through your brains...
If we assume that vaccines are necessary, could it be that the dosage and timing at which it is given that has a negative influence on a child's development ?
And if so, should we not wait as long as possible in order to allow the child to grow as much as possible so there is less change of a negative side effect occurring?
Are bigger children less likely develop side effects or does that not matter at all ?
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So they start vaccinations when they do because early in the babies life, the infant is still protected by the mother's immune system. But that wears off. They then become susceptible to things like whooping cough and measles, etc. and need a new protection. In nature, that involves the child becoming infected with the disease and they learn to fight it off naturally. But this involves a good deal of risk. A vaccine looks like the disease without the risk of complications. This teaches the immune system in the same way as a natural infection.
The body has many filtering systems to get stuff out of the blood. Most of the stuff in vaccines does get processed and removed from the body. for example, formaldehyde, one of the things people are afraid of being in there body, is naturally broken down and removed in urine, and in simply breathing air.
The body is a lot more complicated. It has a ridiculous number of reserve, back-up, alternate, and response systems to deal with odd happenings. We tend to think of an infant as quite fragile, but bio-chemically, they really aren't. At least not on the scale of vaccines. There really isn't that much stuff in vaccines, and the body naturally expels most of the stuff within 2 or 3 days if I remember correctly.
Size does help, as that reduces concentrations and *usually* increases excretory capacities (ability to process and remove something). However, there is a difficult time zone between the mother's immune protection wearing off and waiting for vaccines during which the child becomes very susceptible to a number of pathogens. Many of which can and do cause permanent damage...
If you dont want to get your kids vaccinated, do us a favor and go move to an isolated island. Live there with all the other unvaccinated people. See how long you last. I promise ya, you're going to have a child cemetery. Fatalities in the first year of life have gone down. Before vaccinations children succumbed to illness within the first year of life all the damn time. Now we have kids who actually live to adulthood. Want to go back to living in the dark ages? Make your own civilization and be my guest. I dont care if you kill your own kids. Just dont bring your germy unvaccinated kids to disneyland or any public place where you'll infect babies who are not yet old enough to get vaccines. There's a thing in society called "social contract". Which means if you live in a society you prescribe to certain rules that benefit everyone's wellbeing. One of these rules is to prevent disease when possible, and that's what vaccines are. Honestly your unvaccinated kids running around everywhere to me is just as bad as people who leaves needles in movie theatre chairs to deliberately infect people with HIV. Like seriously. Either conform to the social contract or go live in a country where vaccinations are required- I promise they exist, and people die from diseases all the time! Have fun there. You'll love the short time you there before you die from some infectious disease.
[MENTION=11455]dogman6126[/MENTION]
thank you, that was very informative, exactly what I was hoping for.
[MENTION=528]slant[/MENTION] I live in europe, no need for you to flip out and I was just asking a question in order to learn something I wondered about.
and FYI it was a vaccinated kid who spread that shit in Disneyland.
thank you, that was very informative, exactly what I was hoping for.
[MENTION=528]slant[/MENTION] I live in europe, no need for you to flip out and I was just asking a question in order to learn something I wondered about.
and FYI it was a vaccinated kid who spread that shit in Disneyland.
I swear I'm reading it.
A batman comic would probably be more useful than the government and big pharma produced tripe that dogman is reading (instead of reading what i'm posting for him)
Hello Slant
I hope you are well
I can feel from your words that you feel strongly about this issue. I do too
However there are some points i'd like you to consider regarding your post
First of all if a child has been vaccinated then why would they need to worry about contracting anything from an unvaccinated person?
If they're vaccinated then they should be safe...right? (according to the CDC anyway)
So if vaccinations actually work then vaccinated kids have nothing to fear from unvaccinated kids and it will only be the unvaccinated kids who get sick
However that is not what i happening; what is happening is that vaccinated kids are going down with autism at a rate of 1 in 50 and autism is far worse than most of the things people are supposedly vaccinated against...you know on account of it being long term and all, as opposed to being ill in bed for a couple of days
The other point i'd like to make is that I have posted a lot of posts relating to how health improved BEFORE vaccination programmes began and that is because public health is not down to vaccines it is down to imporvements in water, food, housing, hygeine, sewerage, drainage and so on
Please review my posts and you will see that the whole pro-vaccination argument is a big lie
Now think logically about this.....why would a government that allows the economyto fall through the floor and who allows rampant unemployment, home repossessions and police brutality against the public suddenly care so much about the public over vaccines?
Further to this why would billionaires like Bill gates and Ted Turner who are OBSESSED with population reduction be such big fans of vaccinations if vaccinations saved lives? Surely if vaccines save lives then that would BOOST the global population which is the total OPPOSITE of what they are trying to achieve
Take a deep breathe and think all these points through
Yeah disney is also owned by the CFR network
Disneyland contains the '33 club' which is a club for 33rd degree freemasons
But some people aren't yet seeing all the layers to this thing...but they will as the scandals keep coming
Yes it would be safer but then that wouldn't be any use to bill gates and his buddies at the CFR who are all obsessed with population reduction
The earlier you can pump toxins like aluminium and formaldehyde into the human immune system the earlier you can damage it
Also the smaller a person is the less toxins their body can handle and the accumulative effect of scores of shots in a childs early years mean they are literally bombarded with toxins
This is causing a massive rise in autism rates and also auto-immune disorders. For example before people were being given all these vaccines autism was 1 in 10,000 children now it is 1 in 50....HELLO!!!! Wakey wakey america!!!
Bill Gates main passion in life is the reduction of the global population and he cites vaccines as one of the main tools he is using to achieve that
If vaccines save lives, like dogman would have you believe, then bill gates would be helping to increase the number of people on the planet which is the exact opposite of what he wants to achieve
Think about it
Yes indeed it has an accumulative effect and a baby is very small and not able to process all those toxins
Unfortunately the CDC has published lots of junk science to try and convince people that the toxin laden vaccines are safe for wee babies and this is working for people like dogman who like to post information from sources with things like 'gov' (government source) in their web address! (face-palm)
A whistleblower from the CDC even admitted publically that the CDC was falsifying data whilst another of their researchers is now on the run from the law after embezzling funds; none of this seems to concern dogman though (face palm)
Yes the human body has evolved over 200,000 years to live on this planet but now we are being told that no in fact we need scores of a shots of a toxic product that is created by big corporations owned by the very same people who are telling you that you need to get the shots and who in their own personal time pursue their favourite past time of reducing the population; none of this seems to bother dogman though (face palm)
Yes definately which is why children are developing autism now at a rate of 1 in 50
Dr wakefield is a name that comes up a lot in these debates and his advice was to avoid giving children a COMBINED vaccine of measles, mumps and rubella as he felt it was too much at such an early age. He advocated giving them the shots seperately and that was enough for the system to strike him off the medical register and to destroy his reputation in the media (which is owned by the CFR)
Think about that for a moment......he didn't even say they shouldn't be vaccinated, he only said to give the kids the shots seperately and this sent the system ape-shit
Why is it so important for them to give the shots in one combined shot? The reason is that it causes more damage to the immune systems of children and that's what they want it for 2 reasons:
- first of all it helps reduce the population
- secondly it makes people develop chronic (long term) health problems thereby making them customers of big pharma products for life because if big pharma actually made people better then they would destroy their own market (which instead is growing)
People should have the choice of what they do with their own bodies. This means they should be left alone until they can make an informed decision for themselves, but that does not fit the agenda of the club of rome which wants to reduce the global population by 95%
This is why there is so much pressure for obamacare (insurance corporations will benefit) in the US and for the privatisation of the National Health Service in the UK because the corporate network KNOWS THAT THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC IS BEING DESTROYED and that in the coming decade HEALTH (or rather ill health) WILL BE THE MOST PROFITABLE AREA FOR THEM
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Calm down man you'll give yourself a heart attack! And if you've been vaccinated you will need to take extra care over your health because your immune system will have been compromised
I like listening to a certain economist because he is VERY insightful and he points out that the federal reserve base their policies on what he calls 'junk economics'; he also says that an economist was given a nobel prize for his junk economics which have now been proven by events in the real world to be JUNK
Well the same thing happens in science.....the people who want to screw the populace pay corrupt scientists to produce JUNK SCIENCE to support what they want to do anyway; this provides a smokescreen for their true agenda
You are dealing with JUNK SCIENCE and a CDC whistleblower HAS TOLD US that the CDC is FALSIFYING data
Here is a clip of the then head of the CDC admitting that there was a link between vaccines and 'autism like symptoms' (ie autism) in kids who have an underlying mitochondrial disorder
She obviously avoids saying 'autism' outright because she is paid to cover up the truth. After this interview she then went on to leave the CDC and to get a job at the big pharmaceutical corporation who manufacture the vaccines that she was covering for!
This is called a 'revolving door' situation where government employees get jobs in corporations and corporate employees get jobs in government and they all move back and forth because basically the two are one
When this happens the government no longer represents the best interests of the public and instead represents the best interests of the corporations
[video=youtube;-PS7tqNYW9c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PS7tqNYW9c[/video]
I don't think you understand- there are ages for vaccinations. Babies up to a certain age cannot be vaccinated. The people who get sick are children who were UNVACCINATED and the reason is because they were TOO YOUNG. These are parent who intend to vaccinate their children the day that they are able to due to age requirements, whose kids are getting sick because your five year old is running around unvaccinated and spreading diseases.
No, often babies are injected as soon as they come out with a vitamin K shot and then vaccinated soon after
Have you looked at their schedule these days?
I posted the canadian schedule earlier in the thread; the US schedule is probably even worse
I have even posted articles about how it is usually the vaccinated kids who spread the diseases
In fact a forum member even admitted that her vaccinated son caught whooping cough despite being vaccinated against it and past it onto her young baby
http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/outbreaks-of-measles-in-vaccinated-children-intensifying/
Outbreaks of measles in vaccinated kids intensfying: May 7th 2015
The ineffectiveness and unintended consequences of measles vaccination
by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD)
International Medical Council on Vaccination
Measles vaccine introduction
Measles vaccination in the US and many other countries started in the early 1960s, at the time when measles was naturally abating and was heading for the 18 year low. That’s why the vaccine seemingly lowered the incidence; however, this was only coincidental with the natural dynamics of measles.
Image from healthsentinel.com – Click image to enlarge.
As one of many examples involving all infectious diseases of childhood against which vaccines have been developed, ever since any measles vaccines have been introduced and used in mass proportions, reports of outbreaks and epidemics of measles in even 100% vaccinated populations started filling pages in medical journals.Reports of serious reactions including deaths also appeared with increasing frequency. They are the subject of a separate essay.
Atypical measles – a new phenomenon only in the vaccinated
It is less well known to the general public that vaccinated children started developing an especially vicious form of measles, due to the altered host immune response caused by the deleterious effect of the measles vaccines. It resisted all orthodox treatment and carried a high mortality rate.
It has become known as atypical measles. (AMS)
Rauh and Schmidt (1965) described nine cases of AMS which occurred in 1963 during a measles epidemic in Cincinnati. The authors followed 386 children who had received three doses of killed measles virus vaccine in 1961. Of these 386 children, 125 had been exposed to measles and 54 developed it [i.e. measles].
The new, atypical measles, occurring in the vaccinated was characterised by high fever, unusual rash and pneumonia, often with history of vaccination with killed measles vaccine.
Rauh and Schmidt (1965) concluded that, “It is obvious that three injections of killed vaccine had not protected a large percentage of children against measles when exposed within a period of two-and-a-half years after immunization”.
Fulginiti (1967) also described the occurrence of atypical measles in ten children who had received inactivated (killed) measles virus vaccine five to six years previously.
Nichols (1979) wrote that atypical measles is generally thought to be a hypersensitivity response to natural measles infection in individuals who have previously received killed measles vaccine, although several investigators have reported AMS-like illness in children who had been vaccinated only with live measles vaccine.
He wrote that during a measles epidemic in 1974-1975 in Northern California, a number of physicians reported laboratory-confirmed measles in patients who had signs and symptoms, compatible with AMS…”We developed case criteria on the basis of serology and rash distribution and morphology. In typical measles a maculopapular rash occurs first at the hairline, progresses caudally, is concentrated on the face and trunk, and is often accompanied by Koplik’s spots. In AMS the rash Is morphologically a mixture of maculopapular, petechial, vesicular, and urticarial components. It usually begins and is concentrated primarily on the extremities, progresses cephalad, and is not accompanied by Koplik’s spots. Cases were classified as AMS if patients had 1) a rash with the distribution and morphology characteristic of AMS, and 2) a fourfold or greater rise in titer of complement-fixing measles antibody or a convalescent titer of 256”.
Continuing measles outbreaks signal increasing incidence comparable with the prevaccine era.
In the meantime, outbreaks of measles in vaccinated children have continued and intensified to this day. Contemporary observations of the ineffectiveness of vaccination indicate to me that the incidence of measles has increased and has not continued decreasing as it did for some 100 years before any type of measles vaccination was introduced.
Conrad et al. (1971) published about the dynamics of measles in the US in the last four years and conceded that measles was on the increase and that “eradication, if possible, now seems far in the future”.
Barratta et al. (1970) investigated an outbreak in Florida from December 1968 to February 1969 and found little difference in the incidence of measles in vaccinated and unvaccinated children.
Right through the 1980s, measles outbreaks in fully vaccinated children have continued all over the US and all other countries with high vaccination rates all over the world.
Robertson et al. (1992) wrote that in 1985 and 1986. 152 measles outbreaks in US school-age children occurred among persons who had previously received measles vaccine. “Every 2-3 years, there is an upsurge of measles irrespective of vaccination compliance”.
To cap it all: the largely unvaccinated Amish (they claim religious exemption) had not reported a single case of measles between 1970 and December 1987, for 18 years (Sutter et al. 1991). It is quite likely that a similar situation would have applied to outside communities without any vaccination and that measles vaccination had actually kept measles alive and kicking. According to Hedrich (1933), there is a variety of dynamics of measles occurrence, from 2-3 years to up to 18 years, as later also witnessed by the unvaccinated Amish.
Unfounded optimism for measles eradication in the US by 1 October 1982
Despite the obvious lack of success with measles vaccination, in October 1978, the Secretary of the Department of Health, Joseph A Califano Jr. announced, “We are launching an effort that seeks to free the United States from measles by 1 October 1982″.
Predictably, this unrealistic plan fell flatly on its face: after 1982 the US was hit repeatedly by major and even more sustained epidemics of measles, mostly in fully vaccinated populations. First, the blame was laid upon the “ineffective, formalin-inactivated (‘killed’) measles vaccine, administered to hundreds of thousands of children from 1963 to 1967″. However, outbreaks and epidemics of measles continued occurring even when this first vaccine was replaced with two doses of ‘live’ measles virus vaccines and the age of administration was changed.
These warnings have not been heeded. As the Swiss doctors wrote (Albonico et al. 1990), “we have lost the common sense and wisdom that used to prevail in the approach to childhood diseases. Too often, instead of reinforcing the organism’s defences, fever and symptoms are relentlessly suppressed. This is not always without consequences”.
Destruction of transplacentally-transmitted immunity by vaccination
Many researchers warned straight after the introduction of measles vaccine in the US that the generations of children born to mothers who were vaccinated in childhood will be born with poor or no transplacentally-transmitted immunity and will contract measles and other diseases too early in life.
Lennon and Black (1986) demonstrated that “haemaglutinin-inhibiting and neutralizing antibody titers are lower in women young enough to have been immunized by vaccination than older women”. The same applied to whooping cough. It explains why so many babies before vaccination age develop these diseases, and most particularly the much publicised whooping cough.
Read the Full Article Here: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...tended-consequences-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd
About the author
Dr Viera Scheibner is Principal Research Scientist (Retired) with a doctorate in Natural Sciences from Comenius University in Bratislava. After an eminent scientific career in micropalaeontology during which she published 3 books and some 90 scientific papers in refereed scientific journals in Australia and overseas, she studied babies’ breathing patterns with the Cotwatch breathing monitor developed by her late husband Leif Karlsson in the mid 1980s. Babies had alarms after vaccination, indicating stress. This introduced her to the subject of vaccination. She then started systematically studying orthodox medical papers dealing with vaccination issues. To this day she has collected and studied more than 100000 pages of medical papers.
Despite such extensive research of orthodox medical papers published on vaccines over the past 100 years, she established that there is no scientific evidence that these injections of highly noxious substances prevent diseases, quite to the contrary, that they increase susceptibility to the diseases which the vaccines are supposed to prevent and also to a host of related and unrelated viral and bacterial infections. Vaccines are involved in a great number of modern ills of childhood such as immunoreactive diseases (asthma, allergies), autoimmune diseases (diabetes, multiple sclerosis, lupus erythematosis), cancers, leukaemia, degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, behavioural and learning problems, to mention just the most important conditions.
Her research into vaccination has culminated so far in two books and a number of shorter and longer individual papers published in a variety of scientific and medical publications. She has also conducted frequent international lecture tours to present the results of her research to parents, health and medical professionals and anyone else who is interested. She has also provided a great number of expert witness reports for court cases relating to deaths and injuries caused by vaccines, such as so-called “shaken baby” syndrome.
See Part II: Well-managed Natural Infectious Diseases are Beneficial for Children
- See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/ou...d-children-intensifying/#sthash.sNMPIRa0.dpuf
Outbreaks of Measles in Vaccinated Children Intensifying - See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/ou...d-children-intensifying/#sthash.sNMPIRa0.dpuf
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Congressional Hearing on Autism research by the CDC
Mainly about thimerosol and combined vaccines (crazy that this guy should have to limit his time when discussing such important topics...madness)
It mentions how one of the researchers who contributed much of the work to the CDC's studies on thimerosol is a criminal on the run and is as the congressman describes 'one of the biggest scumbags on the planet'
This 'scumbag' is one of the people the CDC hired to provide them with the junk science they wanted to then peddle to any of the public who aren't switched on enough yet to realise what lying sacks of shit they are
[video=youtube;lrCZAEZgIsY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrCZAEZgIsY[/video]
Mainly about thimerosol and combined vaccines (crazy that this guy should have to limit his time when discussing such important topics...madness)
It mentions how one of the researchers who contributed much of the work to the CDC's studies on thimerosol is a criminal on the run and is as the congressman describes 'one of the biggest scumbags on the planet'
This 'scumbag' is one of the people the CDC hired to provide them with the junk science they wanted to then peddle to any of the public who aren't switched on enough yet to realise what lying sacks of shit they are
[video=youtube;lrCZAEZgIsY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrCZAEZgIsY[/video]
The case of the Amish having much fewer of these problems is compelling that something environmental is leading to these problems, unless someone can show that they're somehow genetically different that protects them, which should be able to be traced back to the common genetics and rates compared between those... I doubt it's related to genetics. It would have been nice if opposing information was investigated instead of accepting the easy explanation and ending inquiry, and we'd be less likely to be having these problems. The sweeping under the rug of opposing information seems to be a recurring problem... Since most of these diseases are basically eradicated in the west, we could take a pause in requiring the whole 9 yards and maybe only require them in cases of travel until the cause is isolated?
Rates of these issues could be compared across nations and geographically. You can even send out the western doctors testing a smaller but representative sample, so that we know it's not an issue of diagnosing.
How's that for Hegelian?
Rates of these issues could be compared across nations and geographically. You can even send out the western doctors testing a smaller but representative sample, so that we know it's not an issue of diagnosing.
How's that for Hegelian?
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Reflexive preference for the answer they already believe to be correct, for reasons of money or ego, ie not having to challenge their beliefs, or fear of having to throw the baby out with the water, yes I can be cheesy, and having diseases recur... Probably some of all of those. It's kind of silly to have known toxic substances in vaccines and expect them not to cause problems, w/o more than a little testing. I have a hard time believing that people are more nefarious than that, but I have been wrong about that before.
The body may be resilient, but cyanide is still going to kill you.
At least, it's irresponsible not to try to find out what's causing the higher incidence rates of autism, etc.
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Well the real awakening comes when you realise that it is all deliberate
If you think that people in power would not do such things to the public i suggest you spend some time scanning the following list of covert experimentation carried out against US americans by their government
Lets put it this way...they have past form of hurting their own people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States