Did I get INFJ Door-slammed? What went wrong in this friendship? INFJs, please help me understand better.

[Asa]

Yeah, I just feel that I didn't have enough contact with Elizabeth for that to have actually been the case, unless it was somewhat or just part of it.

To be honest, I am afraid I might've spooked her and her friends without intending to, by what you just described above. I'll tell you, it was probably 50% a coincidence and 50% I moved because of her. I did get a lot of job offers there that I did not get in other towns that seemed like great offers. However, I did kind of intentionally look there for more offers when I remembered that she lived there. Before, I moved, I told her, Sarah, and Mike that I got a new job here and that is basically why I am moving. However, after I moved, I started to open up more honestly, and say that it wasn't only the job, but also because of connections with Elizabeth and Sarah and I was looking for a new friend group and thought they'd be great people. I think I might've made it sound like they led me on to move when I told them and other people. They did talk about excitement to see me, but I wouldn't say they "LED ME ON" like that, but I might've made it sound that way with the way I told people. I think I admitted to Elizabeth that she was one of the reasons that I moved and she was like: "Aww, that is so sweet." However, I know some girls might say that phrase when they might feel a little weirded out by a situation. And people were starting to find out more and more that I had high hopes and expectations of being part of the ministry, especially Mike. Mike originally thought I moved for just a job, but after everything that happened, he appears to be learning more that I moved because of the ministry with the expectation of being able to join it. Do you think that can definitely spook people? I know it is likely very unusual. I'm afraid that in itself kind of spooked Elizabeth, and probably more so her friends in that ministry.

Not to mention, this kind of behavior is very normal for me personally to move or relocate because I want to make friends with someone specific or develop closer relationships with people I met once. This is NOT the first time I have done something like this, and I even do it for platonic reasons and NOT only if I have romantic feelings. That being said, I do think it's very unusual, and those others didn't know me well to know that this is a very common practice for me.

You're underestimating how creepy men can be with women and how common it is for men to be a real threat to women. For women, it is better to play it safe as soon as red flags pop up.

By blocking you on Spotify, she is setting a boundary. I think you should leave her alone.

While it is common for close friends to move closer to each other, it's unusual for people to move closer to people they don't know well. That freaks people out.

I know you didn't mean to be threatening or weird and that you were hoping to make deeper friendships with people you felt a connection with. It's unfortunate it turned out this way, and I'm sorry you are going through this.

 

[DreamStreet]

You're underestimating how creepy men can be with women and how common it is for men to be a real threat to women. For women, it is better to play it safe as soon as red flags pop up.

By blocking you on Spotify, she is setting a boundary. I think you should leave her alone.

While it is common for close friends to move closer to each other, it's unusual for people to move closer to people they don't know well. That freaks people out.

I know you didn't mean to be threatening or weird and that you were hoping to make deeper friendships with people you felt a connection with. It's unfortunate it turned out this way, and I'm sorry you are going through this.

Thanks man! I do plan to leave her and all those people alone at least for the time being and near future. Honestly I probably don’t even have to go this far as they all said they’d gladly say hello to me at common events, but I’ve actually changed my routine a bit and stayed away from a few events to avoid them.

Here’s my question though: what boundary is she setting by blocking me on Spotify? It doesn’t make much sense because as far as I know you can’t communicate on Spotify. She still follows me on Instagram and even sees my stories. Isn’t Instagram a much more vulnerable social media platform than Spotify? I just don’t quite understand the logic in this.

To be honest from what Elizabeth and all those people said, I don’t actually think they see me as a huge threat or someone that intends to be creepy. However, what I do think they’re seeings is that I’m obsessing over them in a very unhealthy way that makes them uncomfortable. And I do think you’re correct that a man being obsessed with a women especially (it can happen with any gender) can feel scary for sure because it can lead to unconscious overstepping of boundaries, etc. I mean I do believe that a lot of the bad behavior we always hear about starts with obsessions that might even be innocent but people lose track of what they’re doing and do dangerous and bad things likely without realizing. It’s definitely not something to ignore or overlook I suppose. However, I think I’m doing the right thing by leaving them alone and hopefully that’ll prove to them that I’m a safe person and want them to be comfortable and I won’t push anything they aren’t comfortable with. It definitely sucks that it had to come to this point, but I think that’s the best way to approach it. Hopefully they’ll see me for who I am from afar and be more comfortable overtime.

 

[DreamStreet]

While it is common for close friends to move closer to each other, it's unusual for people to move closer to people they don't know well. That freaks people out.

Yeah I figured that. To be honest, I don’t know anyone who does that unless they’re already extremely close friends, and even then, it’s not super common.

I think when I do this for people that I don’t know very well and seek connections with, it might come across as kind of stalkerish to some people, and maybe that’s why it freaks them out.

 

[DreamStreet]

Also not to mention as I’ve been processing and thinking about this more, I did kind of really latch on to Elizabeth, Jennifer, and Rebecca anytime I’d see them at mutual events and church services. I don’t think they minded me sitting with them, but I’d always want to talk with them from the moment they came to the moment they left and I had trouble leaving them alone to go talk to others.

I do think I might’ve missed a few cues from Jennifer and Rebecca telling me that they want to talk to other people now and it’s time for me to let them go and give them a chance to socialize with their other friends. Sometimes I’d let them go for a few min but always go back to them or try to join them in a group conversation with other friends. I’ll be honest, when I look back, I really had a hard time leaving them alone and felt very glued to them. While I do think they enjoyed talking to me, I think they did feel very uncomfortable with the way I latched onto them especially after not even knowing them very well.

As for Elizabeth, I latched onto her quite a bit as well, but she was more reciprocal of that some of the time. At times we did have some long conversations, but I do remember a few times with her as well when she told me that she had to go or needed to talk with other friends and I didn’t leave her alone when I should’ve. I especially remember a time when I did leave her alone for like a couple minutes but came back later. It wasn’t nearly as often with Elizabeth but it definitely happened a few times. Also, she did mention many times about how busy she was, and maybe that should’ve been a cue for me to not text her as much or ask to hangout as much as I’ve been doing and give her more space in general to invest in her other friends too. I don’t think I got that back then, but she might’ve been telling me that I was taking up too much of her space and wasn’t leaving enough room for her other friends.

Now after I mention these things, can you see why they might’ve gotten really uncomfortable after a while? I probably did miss some important cues, and probably smothered them. In general if a girl feels smothered especially by a guy, can that feel creepy and raise red flags as well?

And also while I didn’t directly say this, I think the way I went about wanting to join their ministry to be closer to them, also sent them the wrong message that I wasn’t satisfied with where the relationship was and wanted to be a lot closer. This was when they were already likely feeling smothered.

 

[Asa]

It sounds like you are hyperfixating. Figuring out how to stop the hyperfixation on this group, particularly Elizabeth, should be your primary goal. The more it continues, the more frustrated and unfulfilled you will be and the more your behavior will push people away. It's going to make you unhappy.

As you get older, you'll know yourself better, and you'll know what triggers hyperfixation on people and you'll learn to avoid it.

It does make people uncomfortable. The more you persist, the less they'll want to do with you. Hyperfixating leads to unhealthy behaviors that make other people uncomfortable. I'm not sure if you can see how you keep pressing and pressing for answers and bringing up every memory and behavior trying to find a loophole when the only thing that matters is that they requested space from you. You'll be so much happier if you move on and find real friends.

It doesn't matter why Elizabeth blocked you on Spotify but not on IG. Leave her alone unless she reaches out. She likely wants space from you, and you need to get over her.

 

[DreamStreet]

It sounds like you are hyperfixating. Figuring out how to stop the hyperfixation on this group, particularly Elizabeth, should be your primary goal. The more it continues, the more frustrated and unfulfilled you will be and the more your behavior will push people away. It's going to make you unhappy.

As you get older, you'll know yourself better, and you'll know what triggers hyperfixation on people and you'll learn to avoid it.

It does make people uncomfortable. The more you persist, the less they'll want to do with you. Hyperfixating leads to unhealthy behaviors that make other people uncomfortable. I'm not sure if you can see how you keep pressing and pressing for answers and bringing up every memory and behavior trying to find a loophole when the only thing that matters is that they requested space from you. You'll be so much happier if you move on and find real friends.

It doesn't matter why Elizabeth blocked you on Spotify but not on IG. Leave her alone unless she reaches out. She likely wants space from you, and you need to get over her.

Part of the reason why I’m hyper fixating is because this sort of thing has happened a lot with me in the past. This is NOT the first time it’s happened, and I literally have a list of around 15 people written down somewhere that I’ve made uncomfortable unintentionally over the years, without meaning to at all. And most of those seemed like genuine friends to me in the past.

Therefore, it’s definitely me that is causing problems and making them uncomfortable, because it wouldn’t happen so often like that if it was just lack of interest in friendship by them.

I even remember a time back when I was 12 years old, an older lady in her 50s told me that I was one of her favorites in the world. I loved her so much and she was such a genuine friend. However there came a time and point in our relationship where I hyperfixated on her and her family and got attached in an unhealthy way. This caused issues and she asked for some space. We didn’t go completely no contact but she set strict boundaries (we were long distance, and it might’ve been different if we were not). Our friendship felt weird for about almost 2-3 years, but it started to get back to normal after a while. I did do some insane things, but I’ll tell you she blocked me on Facebook during that time because she was uncomfortable that I was snooping around and trying to interact with her other friends / family, etc. And to be honest, I did some extreme creepy things in this situation and I think the only reason why our relationship survived was because I was only 12 and she was in her 50s, and we were family friends that have had a history of knowing each other for years (not as close friends, but as pretty familiar acquaintances prior to that time)

Therefore it’s very important for me to figure this out so I don’t repeat this or something similar again as it’s really making people feel uncomfortable.

 

[Asa]

I understand. I'm going to make an assumption that you don't read hints, passive aggression, subtly, and body language well.
It's important that you ask your friends to be clear with you and to let you know how they feel before it becomes a problem. It helps if you make it as lighthearted as possible and just accept it if they tell you that your behavior is overbearing or that your infodumping is overwhelming, etc. Ask people to be clear with you instead of indirect.

Try to read up on and study neurotypical behaviors and human behavior. This may help you understand human needs and improve your chances of making lasting friends.

The number one rule is that you need to leave people alone when they set boundaries. Snooping and interacting with a person's friends after they ask for space is not OK. It doesn't matter why they set boundaries. It doesn't matter how close you were before the boundaries were set. Anything short of honoring their boundary is a problem. It will also greatly decrease your chances of repairing the friendship. These behaviors will make people like you less, not more.

Doing "insane things" when someone sets a boundary or cuts you off could get you into a lot of trouble and you could get hurt, arrested, or someone could get a restraining order against you, etc. This is creepy behavior. Leave people alone.

Learn to tell the difference between hyper fixation and real friendship and avoid situations where you know you are likely to hyper fixate. Think of all those names you kept a list of and look for patterns in the situations and your behaviors. Work on yourself to correct these patterns and behaviors so this doesn't keep happening to you.

It is strange to keep a list of everyone who has cut you off. Since you do have this list, try to use it for self improvement.

Hyper fixating on people can be unhealthy and will make you miserable. You want real friendships and love, not hyper fixation.

 

[DreamStreet]

I understand. I'm going to make an assumption that you don't read hints, passive aggression, subtly, and body language well.
It's important that you ask your friends to be clear with you and to let you know how they feel before it becomes a problem. It helps if you make it as lighthearted as possible and just accept it if they tell you that your behavior is overbearing or that your infodumping is overwhelming, etc. Ask people to be clear with you instead of indirect.

Try to read up on and study neurotypical behaviors and human behavior. This may help you understand human needs and improve your chances of making lasting friends.

The number one rule is that you need to leave people alone when they set boundaries. Snooping and interacting with a person's friends after they ask for space is not OK. It doesn't matter why they set boundaries. It doesn't matter how close you were before the boundaries were set. Anything short of honoring their boundary is a problem. It will also greatly decrease your chances of repairing the friendship. These behaviors will make people like you less, not more.

Doing "insane things" when someone sets a boundary or cuts you off could get you into a lot of trouble and you could get hurt, arrested, or someone could get a restraining order against you, etc. This is creepy behavior. Leave people alone.

Learn to tell the difference between hyper fixation and real friendship and avoid situations where you know you are likely to hyper fixate. Think of all those names you kept a list of and look for patterns in the situations and your behaviors. Work on yourself to correct these patterns and behaviors so this doesn't keep happening to you.

It is strange to keep a list of everyone who has cut you off. Since you do have this list, try to use it for self improvement.

Hyper fixating on people can be unhealthy and will make you miserable. You want real friendships and love, not hyper fixation.

Understood! And maybe I phrased it wrong but all that behavior I described above: snooping, trying to interact with family / friends was BEFORE she set boundaries. That’s the reason she did set those boundaries. I was only 12 back then, but I think her point was I should’ve known better not to do that, which is why she set those strict boundaries. After she set them, I respected them. We weren’t completely no contact, but she set limits to what she will do and what she won’t and it definitely felt weird for a couple years, but she relaxed a lot of her boundaries when she saw I was getting over the hyperfixation and it started to get back to normal.

And yes I need to start doing that: asking people to be clear and let me know anytime I become overbearing and infodump.

I agree 100% with you that it’s important to respect boundaries regardless after they set them, and not doing that will make things worse and definitely decrease chances of ever reconciling.

The reason I keep this list is to figure out what happened in every situation.

 

[Asa]

The reason I keep this list is to figure out what happened in every situation.

It is good for you to reflect on what went wrong and how you can change your behaviors. It will help you keep friends and also help you be a happier person.


I'm confused as to why you had a friendship with someone who was in her fifties when you were only twelve.

 

[DreamStreet]

Also on another note, only 1 person has ever completely cut me off permanently in my life. The rest just set strict boundaries because I made them uncomfortable.

And the main reason why that one person has cut me off is because after she set strict boundaries that I thought were very unjust and unfair, I tried to sue her for emotional distress. My lawyer said that I have a very low chance of winning the case and I dropped it eventually, but I was exaggerating and tried to sue her basically for revenge. While we didn’t move forward, I definitely got the legal authorities involved and I think she thought that was taking it way too far. Usually at that point, nobody is ever going to want contact with me again if I try to get the legal system involved.

 

[DreamStreet]

I'm confused as to why you had a friendship with someone who was in her fifties when you were only twelve.

Good question. This is going off topic, but when I was young growing up as a kid, I always had these weird crushes on older ladies and wanted friendships with them. Often crushes on ladies in leadership positions. And surprisingly, many of them thought it was cute and kind of reciprocated my desire for friendship!

As an autistic person, I had trouble making friends my own age, so I’d often go for the older ladies and be pretty successful. LOL, I had probably over 10 older lady friends between 40-60 and most of them are still my friends now!

 

[John K]

@DreamStreet just reading your replies here, you actually seem to have an intellectual grasp of why things are going wrong - you certainly articulate it well. The way you come across it's as though you know why things are going wrong, but you are compelled to keep flying into the same flame, inevitably with the same result. It's as though at an emotional level you don't really believe the validity of the logic, even though you understand it.

From what you have said, you strike up initial contacts OK with new folks who seem to respond favourably to you, and that's a really good base to build on. You come across to me here as a likeable guy, but with a significant problem rather than someone to avoid at all costs. If only you can stop overwhelming people with the way you try and associate with them things could improve quickly for you.

Asa's advice seems really good to me - perhaps when you get to know someone a little beyond casual acquaintanceship you can explain your situation and ask them to tell you if you are crossing boundaries, then respect what they tell you. Something that may help as well is to use your intellectual understanding of your problem to override your tendency to attach too much to folks you like. This is where you would use your knowledge and some logic to work out how best to behave with your friends - then go with its conclusions even when your feelings and desires are crying out to do something different. It's a bit clunky, but over time it will bed in and become part of the way you work out instinctively how to interact with folks. In a way, you are doing this right now with Elizabeth and the others and keeping away from them, but you have no real choice in that - if you do it up front instead the problems won't happen like they did. I suspect at first you will have to wrestle with yourself and it will feel strange - but you will get your reward by eventually making and keeping some real friends.

I don't know if you could get access to a mentor to help you with this - it would be good if you had someone who knows what they are doing and who could give you some feedback and help you with advice and support face to face. Maybe there is someone in one of the church communities local to you who would fit the bill?

 

[DreamStreet]

@DreamStreet just reading your replies here, you actually seem to have an intellectual grasp of why things are going wrong - you certainly articulate it well. The way you come across it's as though you know why things are going wrong, but you are compelled to keep flying into the same flame, inevitably with the same result. It's as though at an emotional level you don't really believe the validity of the logic, even though you understand it.

From what you have said, you strike up initial contacts OK with new folks who seem to respond favourably to you, and that's a really good base to build on. You come across to me here as a likeable guy, but with a significant problem rather than someone to avoid at all costs. If only you can stop overwhelming people with the way you try and associate with them things could improve quickly for you.

BINGO!!!!!

I think you pretty much explained my situation. Here's my take: I think I do understand what is wrong, and what is happening, but my main issue is that when I think logically, it just doesn't make much sense to me.

Here are the questions and thoughts that come to my mind when I try to think logically for myself:
1. Why do people care so much, how emotionally attached I am? They can always say No to anything I ask, but why do they feel smothered if I am just asking to be part of things?
2. Why do they just want to set stricter boundaries and not be friends rather than have a clear conversation about boundaries and fix the problem?
3. Who cares who I consider as my best friends and the most important people in my life, as long as I am honoring boundaries ok? Like I am happy to respect anybody's boundaries but that doesn't change the fact that they still might be considered a best friend or most valuable person in my life, even if I only get to see them once every 2 months.
4. Honestly, what is this thing about feeling overwhelmed with expectations, and me being overbearing? It's not like I clearly state any expectations. When I think logically, it feels like all a hoax to me to be honest. I personally, have NEVER EVER felt overwhelmed by a relationship, and I pretty much respond to anyone who wants to be friends or info dump emotionally. I don't remember EVER a time where I've had to say that I don't have the emotional space to listen to someone and be there for someone. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I might not be available 24/7, but I can easily make time in the next 2 weeks to be available to people who need to talk.
5. Who cares how deep the friendship gets? I mean if it happens naturally, and someone wants a deep friendship, what is the reason for having a problem with that?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also here is another big disconnect I often see between myself and others. I know that friendships take time to develop and people don't get close overnight. I am willing to take things slow, and not rush into a friendship with someone that needs time. I want them to feel comfortable.

That being said, I do expect the other person to make time to let the friendship develop naturally and progress. Like for example if we are not in the same circles, or do not see each other on a regular basis, it is still a priority for me to make time to spend with that person outside of settings and just getting together one on one. And I do expect at least some effort from the person as well. It doesn't have to be often. Maybe once every 2-3 months is what they might have the space for, but I still expect that hang out to happen once every 2-3 months and the other person to be intentional in getting together.

I will go at any pace the other person is comfortable with, but I EXPECT INTENTIONALITY to try and grow the friendship regardless of whether we are in the same circles, how often we naturally see each other, etc. Like I WILL NOT let go of that specific person that I want to be friends with, unless they explicitly tell me they are not interested in being friends at all, or set clear boundaries stating that. If they're really busy, we go slower, and do whatever they have the capacity for at a certain time.

Let's say I meet a guy called David at a one off event. We don't see each other consistently, but we had a great connection and I really enjoyed his company, and he probably enjoyed mine as well. I will likely occasionally ask him to meet up for lunch or something, because he is someone I really want to have in my life. If he is busy, I will try a few months later, etc. But I will persist in wanting to grow that friendship until he clearly says he isn't interested or otherwise.

It's kind of a little bit like a date or pursuing a romantic relationship. People take it at their own pace and make sure the other person is comfortable, but there is this expectation of making intentional time to spend together even if it might not be able to happen very often. I view friendships similarly, although obviously my expectations will be a lot lower. If it was a date, I'd expect to hangout at least once every 2 weeks, but if it was just a friendship, maybe 2-3 times a year at the least, but the more the better.

I think most people do not really care as much about who they make friends with and tend to prioritize the people they just naturally see on a regular basis. Like for others if they ask to hangout, and one person says he/she is busy, they might just forget about the friendship all together and focus on people that they see everyday. NOT ME. I have specific people that I want friendships with, and I will do whatever it takes to try and grow it, if I feel the other person seems interested, even if it means waiting 6 months to 3 years before they might be available.

There was this one lady I wanted to befriend so bad back in 2016 that I didn't even know. I reached out to her with my desire to want to get to know her and she was honored. I didn't get to meet her for 3 years, but I kept her in mind, and kept looking for the opportunities to make it work whenever I had a chance, and I finally met her in 2019, and we slowly started to become good friends after that. Not to mention, she lived 6000 miles away from me when I first took an interest in befriending her, and I still kept the opportunity in mind, and I said to myself, I will try to make it happen whenever I get a chance. 3 years later, I was able to take a summer job that is about 150 miles away from her, and I found a way to make it happen to see her at one of her concerts (she is a musician). It definitely went slow, and we were not close right away, but I kept being very intentional in keeping in touch, and seeing her whenever both she and I could make it work. We met again 2 years later. I do not get to see this person often, and we do not hangout regularly, but I still call her one of the most important people in my life. We talk on the phone around once every 3 months. However, if I lost my friendship with her, that would likely make me severely depressed for at least a year. It would be BAD!!!

Does any of this make sense to you?

 

[DreamStreet]

To put what I said above in simpler words, I am willing to respect boundaries, as I want others to feel comfortable! However, no matter how many boundaries they set, that will NOT change how attached I am to them as a person. Honestly, someone could tell me that they only have the time to hangout with me once a year, and only maybe talk on the phone twice a year, and if I like them a lot, I could still consider them as the most important person in my life, but still gladly respect that boundary they set. However, if I lost that thing of seeing them once a year, I could be extremely emotionally depressed. This is a very extreme example, but I am just trying to get a point across here.

 

[may]

Hi. I have been sort of following your story as this thread progressed and I had a few comments to make.

Firstly, it's been established that you do have some degree of difficulty understanding social cues and things, but that you are also to a degree aware of what's going on, and yet still have compulsions in this area. I think other than obvious neurodivergence, this may also be due to a misunderstanding of the nuances of relationships and possible attachment disruptions you've suffered. For example, you say that you do not understand logically why someone should not just have a conversation about boundaries with you instead of just ending the relationship, or why people should care how emotionally attached you are to them. This indicates to me that you yourself have a basic understanding of boundaries but not a very sophisticated understanding. A person may not want to have a conversation about boundaries because they are detecting that it may still lead to trouble down the road and they want very easeful relating, they may be far less enthusiastic about relationships and connection than you are, they may not feel you are on the same wavelength as them beyond superficial relating, they may be less secure or comfortable about handling "intense" or neurodiverse interactions or anything that is off the neurotypical script, they may be more aware of the dangers of close relationships and thus have a high sensitivity to anything that feels dysregulating for them. Your style of relating might be too intense or too jarring for them, your energy might not match what they are comfortable with, and so on. Neurodivergent people can often relate to other neurodivergent people really well who share their same style of relating, but may have trouble with more neurotypical people whose interaction style is more subdued and subtle. However I do not believe neurodivergence is the whole story, and I think the spectrum is much more fluid and workable than people give it credit for. I do think it's possible to learn the more subtle and "energetic" style of relating that neurotypical people use, but it requires acute observation and understanding. It may also be necessary to supplement your observations and analysis with other studies, such as history, culture, politics, and so on, so you can really get a feel for how humans have to navigate each other and why.

The second point is about attachment disruptions. It sounds to me that you have a primarily "anxious preoccupied" style of attachment, which is just a very broad general description of some noticeable themes in how you relate to people and not at all a global diagnosis. All forms of insecure attachment ("anxious avoidant", "anxious preoccupied", and "disorganised") come from attachment disruptions with primary caregivers. Human relationships are so diverse and varied it's impossible to neatly catalogue them, but it does sound like you crave interaction and company a great deal and will go to great lengths to secure a relational attachment, which is very indicative of an "anxious preoccupied" attachment style. The reason I mention this is because at the heart of insecure attachment styles is a disrupted relationship with the self.
In "secure" attachment, a child grows up with a caregiver who helps the child regulate their emotions and get to know themselves better over time as they deal with the world, the relationship with their secure caregiver becomes internalised as a relationship with the self. When the child grows up, they have a secure relationship with themselves and are able to regulate themselves regardless of the status of external relationships. However, in "insecure" attachment, since the child's relationship with the caregiver is disrupted for all kinds of reasons, the child is unable to develop a relationship with self as well, and grows up with anxious styles of relating, whether presenting as avoidant or preoccupied or a mixture. They cannot regulate themselves in the process of relating because they do not have a secure relationship with themselves.
Effective treatment for insecure relationship styles is to develop a stronger caregiving relationship with the self as an adult, mimicking a securely attached upbringing. In "anxious preoccupied" people, you will see them depending less on external relationships to fill the need inside of them, and thus they will become less clingy and anxious about those relationships. Seeing as you have said that this has happened to you over and over again and you want it to stop, I highly suggest you look into "developing a secure attachment within" and "reparenting" "ideal parent" "inner child" related work as this is designed directly to address the issues you are having. The good news is that "anxious preoccupied" is the closest to "secure" out of all three, so it won't be as difficult as it could be for you to develop "earned secure" attachment as you heal.

I hope what I have said here hasn't been too presumptive or too offensive, I just wanted to share my perspective because I thought it might be helpful for your aims. Without sharing too much, I wanted to let you know it's possible for you to change these patterns and find more satisfaction in your relationships. The fact that you are motivated to change and grow means that with patience, perseverance and willingness, you have a good chance at success. And with that, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[DreamStreet]

Hi. I have been sort of following your story as this thread progressed and I had a few comments to make.

Firstly, it's been established that you do have some degree of difficulty understanding social cues and things, but that you are also to a degree aware of what's going on, and yet still have compulsions in this area. I think other than obvious neurodivergence, this may also be due to a misunderstanding of the nuances of relationships and possible attachment disruptions you've suffered. For example, you say that you do not understand logically why someone should not just have a conversation about boundaries with you instead of just ending the relationship, or why people should care how emotionally attached you are to them. This indicates to me that you yourself have a basic understanding of boundaries but not a very sophisticated understanding. A person may not want to have a conversation about boundaries because they are detecting that it may still lead to trouble down the road and they want very easeful relating, they may be far less enthusiastic about relationships and connection than you are, they may not feel you are on the same wavelength as them beyond superficial relating, they may be less secure or comfortable about handling "intense" or neurodiverse interactions or anything that is off the neurotypical script, they may be more aware of the dangers of close relationships and thus have a high sensitivity to anything that feels dysregulating for them. Your style of relating might be too intense or too jarring for them, your energy might not match what they are comfortable with, and so on. Neurodivergent people can often relate to other neurodivergent people really well who share their same style of relating, but may have trouble with more neurotypical people whose interaction style is more subdued and subtle. However I do not believe neurodivergence is the whole story, and I think the spectrum is much more fluid and workable than people give it credit for. I do think it's possible to learn the more subtle and "energetic" style of relating that neurotypical people use, but it requires acute observation and understanding. It may also be necessary to supplement your observations and analysis with other studies, such as history, culture, politics, and so on, so you can really get a feel for how humans have to navigate each other and why.

The second point is about attachment disruptions. It sounds to me that you have a primarily "anxious preoccupied" style of attachment, which is just a very broad general description of some noticeable themes in how you relate to people and not at all a global diagnosis. All forms of insecure attachment ("anxious avoidant", "anxious preoccupied", and "disorganised") come from attachment disruptions with primary caregivers. Human relationships are so diverse and varied it's impossible to neatly catalogue them, but it does sound like you crave interaction and company a great deal and will go to great lengths to secure a relational attachment, which is very indicative of an "anxious preoccupied" attachment style. The reason I mention this is because at the heart of insecure attachment styles is a disrupted relationship with the self.
In "secure" attachment, a child grows up with a caregiver who helps the child regulate their emotions and get to know themselves better over time as they deal with the world, the relationship with their secure caregiver becomes internalised as a relationship with the self. When the child grows up, they have a secure relationship with themselves and are able to regulate themselves regardless of the status of external relationships. However, in "insecure" attachment, since the child's relationship with the caregiver is disrupted for all kinds of reasons, the child is unable to develop a relationship with self as well, and grows up with anxious styles of relating, whether presenting as avoidant or preoccupied or a mixture. They cannot regulate themselves in the process of relating because they do not have a secure relationship with themselves.
Effective treatment for insecure relationship styles is to develop a stronger caregiving relationship with the self as an adult, mimicking a securely attached upbringing. In "anxious preoccupied" people, you will see them depending less on external relationships to fill the need inside of them, and thus they will become less clingy and anxious about those relationships. Seeing as you have said that this has happened to you over and over again and you want it to stop, I highly suggest you look into "developing a secure attachment within" and "reparenting" "ideal parent" "inner child" related work as this is designed directly to address the issues you are having. The good news is that "anxious preoccupied" is the closest to "secure" out of all three, so it won't be as difficult as it could be for you to develop "earned secure" attachment as you heal.

I hope what I have said here hasn't been too presumptive or too offensive, I just wanted to share my perspective because I thought it might be helpful for your aims. Without sharing too much, I wanted to let you know it's possible for you to change these patterns and find more satisfaction in your relationships. The fact that you are motivated to change and grow means that with patience, perseverance and willingness, you have a good chance at success. And with that, I wish you the best of luck.

Hey Man, thanks so much for your thoughts! Sorry for my late reply; I've been busy. And No, this was not presumptive or offensive at all.

Yes I would say, I have a good understanding of boundaries, but more towards the logical end, rather than sophisticated / cultural understanding. I understand what you're saying in the answer to why people might rather just drop a relationship rather than have a conversation about boundaries. I can say it sort of makes sense, and I can understand the way people are thinking when you describe the reasons; however, if you want my honest opinion, it is UNACCEPTABLE to not give someone a chance at least. While those reasons you mentioned make sense, I personally at least do not feel they are acceptable or something I would really accept or have respect for of a person. People can do whatever they want, but it would make me dislike them and lose more respect for them if they made those kinds of decisions. I'd follow and abide by any boundaries they set; but that does not mean that I would not talk about it with others or gossip behind their backs. Not necessarily with the intention of trying to destroy their reputation, but more so, warning others and just complaining, because I feel their behavior isn't acceptable. Yes, I will admit that when it comes to relationships, I can be very much of a Karen and really protest / complain if I believe I was wronged or treated unfairly. I even mentioned a previous post that I tried to sue someone for emotional distress after ending a relationship unfairly. The only reason I dropped the case is because my lawyer said that I really didn't have much of a chance of winning it or getting anything from it, and it would just cost a lot of money otherwise. Anyways, that was a very extreme case that I don't want to get into details about, as it's way off topic.

The other thing that you didn't necessarily mention is that I think some of those situations I've had in the past, people thought that they already were setting boundaries and kind of having a conversation about boundaries, but not very clear about it and somewhat indirect. As an autistic person, I don't always get cues, but I have to admit that in some of the situations (not all), I think I probably could've gotten or understood the boundaries they were trying to set if I wasn't so hyper-fixated / obsessive about them. Like for example, Elizabeth did warn me at the beginning of our relationship, that she is spread really thin with her time, and while she would value hanging out with me from time to time, it likely wouldn't be very regularly. She also said that I need to find a community to be primarily invested in with deep friendships, and that her community cannot be mine because it's made for people that are a lot younger and in college. I think she was probably trying to set a boundary there saying that I cannot really be a part of her community in the way I was looking for, and while I can hangout with her and her friends from time to time, when they have availability, it won't be super often, and therefore can't consider them my main community or primary friends. If I wasn't so hyper-fixated on her, her friends, and the community, I probably could've picked up that boundary and been more self aware.

When it comes to attachment, I'd say I am somewhat secure, but also somewhat insecure as well. I think it's a matter of me wanting to be close friends with specific people, and then being worried that it won't develop or they won't reciprocate that amount of closeness or the same intensity. I also worry that I will never be as meaningful to them as they might be to me. Basically concerned that my expectations won't me met ever. LOL, a lot of people have expressed that that has made them very uncomfortable when they feel my expectations are so high and they cannot meet them. That is what makes them want to withdraw from being friends with me and set stricter boundaries.

By the way, I do get counseling for this and see a therapist to process these things with here and there. The main thing though is that because I'm different, I see society's view of some things as just unacceptable, and rather than change, I want to protest and complain, and be a Karen about things. Therapy is definitely helping, and I want to be more healthy, but at the same time many people in our society confuse the words Normal and Healthy, and I don't like that. Just because something isn't normal doesn't mean it has to be mentally unhealthy. Although, I'll admit, there are definitely unhealthy things for sure about the way I look at this.