Too Illogical to be Logical

Saru Inc

Saru Inc

Schrödinger's Pussy
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ENFJ
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Hey guys!
I prefer for this thread to remain in this current forum of Psych and MBTI.


All my life I've always tried to be this logical person, an obvious attempt to try and overcome my own feelings of insecurity in regards to logic. I've always taken my feeling based thoughts, slathered them with condiments of rigid mental conformity to the rules, and reconsituted logical principles; thrown them on a plattered and present it in a way that I pray will be consumed and not rejected. I've noticed this in my best friend (ENFJ) also, she always says I'm a logical person, business is business and I don't have time for feelings." But she is an Fe dom to the core. Why do we lie to ourselves? Because we aren't perfect, and just like everyone paints over their imperfections with coats of everything that they think people will most admire; so do F doms (fe more than Fi, I've noticed - but that might just be me not noticing) try to act overly illogical. And boy, does it get us into trouble. So many politicians, presidents, influential figures in general fuck up because their too afraid to say I need help in this matter. Yet, our society respects T doms, and no one pays any mind (typically) to their inability to make emotionally charged decisions, or express their emotions.

Why is this? Do you think the over amount of 'drama' in our society subconsciously stems from our feelings? The kardashians and Bad Girls Clubs ruining the meaning of feelings? Not sure, not what this topic is about regardless.

I guess I'm trying to articulate that I'm finally coming to terms that I will never (at least in this point in my life) be able to make logically based decisions frequently and without great strain on me, and I don't want to be given flack on it. I used to hang out in this forum full the fricken brim of intjs/istjs and isfps (odd combination?). God. Holy shit. So many debates were on that forum, and all people cared about was "OMG STRAWMAN FALLACY" "OMG RED HERRING FALLCY" , everyone yelling at everyone. Albeit, sure, those do have their places in arguments that are logically based. On matters of religion, and such, I myself see them as uncalled for. Idk. I feel this topic is all over the place. I'm not good at organizing my thoughts in a coherent manner.


I just want to say that while I still feel shame at being logically handicapped, I don't feel shame for being emotionally aware of all that is around me, and all the life I can feel through it. Is there anyone else like me?

P.s.: AND CAN WE PLEASE HAVE ALL THE T-TERT FOLK IN THIS HERE FORUM ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE NOT T's EITHER. Not saying there's anything wrong with doing thinking type stuff, but you aren't always as good as you think you are. And you can take that to the bank.
**typo fixed. I meant tertiary. fuck my life.

also: people who are T doms typically have bad hygeine. You can tell because they usually have yellow teeth. and high sat scores.
 
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Saru Inc said:
P.s.: AND CAN WE PLEASE HAVE ALL THE T-AUX FOLK IN THIS HERE FORUM ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE NOT T's EITHER. Not saying there's anything wrong with doing thinking type stuff, but you aren't always as good as you think you are. And you can take that to the bank.
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Im ISTJ and am aux: Te. So wtf?
 
I relate to this a lot. I've spent a lot of time attempting to swap out my emotions in favour of logic and it never works in the long run. What ends up happening is I suppress my emotions as opposed to replace them but they always tend to boil to the surface no matter how much I try to bat them away and not address them. I always find that when I make decisions based on "logic" it is taxing for me in the sense that I'm not truly expressing myself and a lot of the times the emotions surrounding choices I've made stick around for a long time afterwards.

I've recently also come to the conclusion that even if I can make myself look logical and analytical on the surface I'm simply not and that by trying to be more T than F I am being a detriment to myself. I feel much better and healthier since being more emotionally expressive and going with my feelings than I ever did trying to cast them off in favour of logic/reason. It all ends up being okay in the end even if emotions are a bit chaotic.
 
Saru Inc said:
not referring to the T in istj



try really really hard to understand it

also: I find the phrase 'be yourself,' as nice as it may sound, really isn't anything.
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i will try, i promise. i'll read it again.
funny, i find the phrase 'be yourself'to be quite profound. try really really hard to understand it ;)
 
Saru Inc said:
all people cared about was "OMG STRAWMAN FALLACY" "OMG RED HERRING FALLCY"
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SPELLING FRIEND!, spelling! :D

cat-hug-5.jpg


You are right, but if its about being convincing, a good discussion and logic chain does help big time.

I think you may (as many do) have felt that many people view T vs F wrong in MBTI terms.

MBTI - T = prefers to attempt to establish common facts in conversation, F = prefers to refers to events and people in conversation.

Don't worry about it, it's just that people are dumb and assume people have any skill with either. Just because they have a dichotomy does not denote capability.
 
I'm still figuring it out; decisions in my life always seem to be a struggle.

->Logic v Feeling
 
fuck logic, follow your feelings! even if it doesnt turn the way you wanted to at least youll be happy with yourself.
 
Saru Inc said:
P.s.: AND CAN WE PLEASE HAVE ALL THE T-AUX FOLK IN THIS HERE FORUM ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE NOT T's EITHER. Not saying there's anything wrong with doing thinking type stuff, but you aren't always as good as you think you are. And you can take that to the bank.
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Sniffle sob :m142: It's true, you got me :( Please stop yelling. I'm coming out of the closet: I'm really an ENFJ. Love and cuddles all around.
 
Alright, here's the thing: Everything is grounded in logic. Everything. No, not just everything within a certain category, but everything period. Whether or not you understand or can explain that logic is another story. Allow me to illustrate.

Example 1: Let's say you're behaving like a total retard. There is a logical reason for that. Something about that behavior makes you feel a certain way that you want to feel at that moment.
Example 2: You think that you intuitively 'know' something. There is a logical reason for that too. Intuition is unconscious processing of information.
Example 3: "My parents said that I should go to medical school, and that "logically" makes sense. Great pay, job security, and social status. But I don't want to be a medical doctor. I just want to live on the beach and surf for the rest of my life." The decision to live on the beach and surf is actually logical, but the logic is based upon emotions. "I'm going to do this because it makes me happy. I'm going to not do that because that makes me miserable." Those are logical decisions based on emotions. Which makes sense, because feeling good is arguably the sole purpose of our existence.

The biggest problem that I see with going with your feelings, and making emotionally based decisions, is that it can be used as an accountability cop out. You can make selfish decisions without acknowledging it's a selfish decision. You can behave unethically without having to acknowledge that either. You can justify a whole slew of dumb shit behavior by saying "oh. I'm just going with my feelings". You can avoid having to answer to yourself, or anyone else. So of course life is easier in this way if you're doing dumb shit, or you're lying to yourself and/or others.

So the big takeaway is:
1. Logical decisions are often based upon our emotions, and it's logical for that to be.
2. Intuition is not illogical.
3. Emotions and intuition are very important to decision making, but it has to be done right.

Advice? You need to ensure you're being objective. For me personally, emotions/feelings/intuition all fit WITHIN the frame of a logical system of knowledge, which is pretty INTJ specific. I don't know how a feeler would do it. You might not be capable. My impression of a feeler's inner world is that it's a mish-mash of non-linear information and associations. Chaos, basically. You might be doomed to a life of semi-objectivity, at best.

[/powerpoint presentation]
 
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God I didn't realize the first post was such a text orgy. I'm on the forums at work :O


I'm basically referring to the pressure in this society, to make most decisions on, well, to be literal "T" basis. Such as statistics and stuff. idk. fuck details. Vs. feelings, in the sense of not doing something because of a gut feeling, or, hell, I can't articulate this either. I'm not referring to such a literal definition of Ti/Te. Just, T type stuff, and F type stuff. I can absolutely relate, to Feelings account of T, in post #12. I guess I should have been more specific.

I also wasn't intending to come across as performing a mimicry of Scratchy the Addict in the first post, and post following it.

I feel self conscious when people confront me on spelling errors, grammatical errors, etc., in other words.
 
IDK I dont make a lot of decision on T but on how I expect something will make me feel (good v. bad). People just assume Im logical cause I dont smile and my plans usually go along smoothly.
 
Saru Inc said:
So many politicians, presidents, influential figures in general fuck up because their too afraid to say I need help in this matter. Yet, our society respects T doms, and no one pays any mind (typically) to their inability to make emotionally charged decisions, or express their emotions.
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An "emotionally charged decision" is not a decision, at least not a good one. It could change every moment or have catastrophic consequences. You should definitely read this article: Judge a Presidency By Its Crises Avoided

Feelings said:
Sniffle sob :m142: It's true, you got me :( Please stop yelling. I'm coming out of the closet: I'm really an ENFJ. Love and cuddles all around.
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Haha, that's funny.
 
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