Suicide: is it ethical? | INFJ Forum

Suicide: is it ethical?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Virgoess, Apr 28, 2009.

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  1. Virgoess

    Virgoess Regular Poster

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    I saw the thread about Nihilistic Suicide. I debated about answering in that thread or starting a new one. I chose to start a new one on the basis that I don't want to deal with Nihilism per se, instead literal suicide and where it falls into the ethics and values of our worlds.

    I've strugged with this issue most of my adult life. Hell, I even recall wanting out of life as a child. I was picked on pretty heavily. A couple unsuccessful attempts over the years and here I am still reflecting upon the whole thing.

    My immediate concern is the pain that my loved ones will feel. It would inflict such sadness on my parents and one of my sisters. My other two sisters well, we share bloodlines - that's about it. Family - that's one of the anchors I think that has kept me here.

    From a religious or society standpoint, I think it has no business telling me its 'immoral.' It should be left to the individual and the pain they feel whether its a good choice. Every situation is different though and that's where the variables come in. Is it at least, inconsiderate to do if you have people dependant on you? I often think of the emotional devastation it can cause to people. So its a struggle for me. My own inner pain vs. how I'd hurt people I do care greatly for.

    Luckily, I'm an island lost at sea, as I have no one depending one me. However, the larger question and ethics is what interests me.

    Thoughts?
     
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    #1 Virgoess, Apr 28, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  2. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    I don't know if I'd talk about suicide in terms of ethical and not ethical because I think that suicide is a result of an unhealthy mind whether it be due to emotional stress or chemical imbalance.
    Suicide is an irrational act, not a logical decision.
     
  3. CoffeeShopDiva

    CoffeeShopDiva Community Member

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    I have also always thought about suicide as an option. Not one that I plan on taking anytime soon, mind you. I've never been suicidal in the traditional sense of the word. In my darkest hours I have wanted to disappear and simply stop existing, but not to taking my own life.

    I think that suicide should be an available option for all people. I believe that we all have a RIGHT to decide when we are ready to die.

    I believe that euthanasia should be legal. And I desperately hope that if I choose to one day, that someone else will not take my right away.

    (Yes, I do realize I will be blasted for said opinions. But, I will still voice them)
     
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  4. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Well, there's a difference between being terminally ill and in horriffic agony and deciding to end your suffering, or having a living will stating that you wish to be taken off life support if you ever end up in a vegetative state...

    ...and then wanting to end your life because nobody likes you, you're lonely, etc. etc. etc.

    What would be the point of even taking psychology and psychiatry seriously if ultimately it was ethical for people to kill themselves because they have emotional problems?
     
  5. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I'm for anything that lowers the population.
     
  6. bamf

    bamf Is Watching You
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    we are all the collective soul of humanity and to take ones own life is stealing from the rest. the future is unwritten and the fact that you won't be around to interact (potentially in a very positive way) with others is a hindrance to us all. (I say you as in a general sense)
     
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  7. CoffeeShopDiva

    CoffeeShopDiva Community Member

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    You first.
     
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    the likes this.
  8. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Ohhh Zzzing!
     
  9. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    I share your views on this.

    I never attempted simply because I knew I would never have a good enough method.

    I've wanted to just stop so many times.

    So for long stretches of my life I've lived for others. Having no reason of my own to live.

    I figure if I die alone, and sad then at least I will have helped others.

    Even if I will never get the happy ending I was promised.

    Honestly this isn't true to me.

    We are individuals and are a species. And I'm pretty certain we don't have souls.

    But we won't be around. We won't have the human experience but for many of us its not worth it much of the time.
     
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  10. PoetOfDreams

    PoetOfDreams Shadow Queen

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    How are you certain that we DON'T have souls? What evidences does that shows we don't have souls? In the step forward, how is there PROOF that there is a soul?

    I think before talking about suicide, we need to understand whether or not the soul will go to an afterlife anyways. Many people commits suicide for the glamorous afterlife that many other people place upon.

    So do we have a afterlife?

    I don't have a clear answer for this, so i am really asking this for your opinion.
     
  11. OP
    Virgoess

    Virgoess Regular Poster

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    That's an interesting perspective.

    If I were to use logic (which granted isn't my #1), to bring something to conclusion that you never see any future, hope or improvement - is that not in a way logical? I ask because yes, it may be based in the deep emotional recesses of the mind but there is a certain logic behind it in the process and outcome.



     
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  12. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Not really a zing. It's the most retarded statement put forward by these people.

    I've argued elsewhere in this forum why people who argue my point cannot be the first to go, look it up. Otherwise you're both just arguing retarded points of view. By believing the retarded points of view in the face of knowledge, you're retarded yourself.
     
  13. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    The burden of proof lies with proving either side of this argument is well very tough indeed.

    But that being said

    To the best of my knowledge their is neither.

    You can believe whatever you feel best. But I personally need facts over faith in unsound logic.

    I don't have an answer but from what I know that is my understanding of the issue.

    So I don't think this is anything after death for me, expect my body being broken down. Back into the universe myself used for something else.


    The cut and dried is people believe in what brings them comfort or gives they think their life meaning (we could do a entire thread on meaningfulness from philosophical standpoint).
     
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  14. just me

    just me GONE

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    New face, new name....same person. Well said. NO!!
     
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  15. Morpheus

    Morpheus Community Member

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    The burden of proof lies on those who claim the extraoridinary. Soul or afterlife are, indeed, extraoridinary: their existence is not nescessary or obvious, thus the burden of proof lies on the people who say they do exist.

    I don't think suicide has much to do with ethics, not really. Ultimately we own ourselves and I don't think we are responsible to even our loved ones in this case: we do not exist to make them happy and it'd be selfish of them to expect that.

    However, I don't really see why anyone'd commit suicide, ever, save maybe if they were in constant, overwhelming pain. I mean, it won't make anything better. It won't replace your loneliness or sorrow with happiness or tranquility. It won't make you content. We will all die in our due time, and that's it. From any, even remotely objective point of view our lives are but brief flashes in darkness. What is there to be gained in making our already short existence even shorter?
     
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    #15 Morpheus, Apr 28, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  16. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    I don't see anything unethical about suicide, except when you leave behind a big mess in the process. It's your life; as long as you are not harming other people, you should be able to do whatever. (Emotional harm to those who would mourn you probably shouldn't count.)



    Providing links or quotes would be more helpful than calling people retarded. Your opinions are not above criticism.
     
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  17. poetrygirl

    poetrygirl Community Member

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    Suicide

    I believe that suicide is unethical on the terms that most people that fall prey to it are victims like what was said, "of an unhealthy mind". Their depressed, stressed, numb, chemically imbalanced, over their heads and therefor more liable to make rash decisions. It's a permanent decision to a temporary problem. When your depressed and see no end to your suffering. I can remember contemplating it when I was little because of bullies as well ,because of my fathers death and my families situation. The only thing that got me through it was reminding myself that it would pass one day. I think people who commit suicide are people who feel so bogged down and are no longer able to see the end of the tunnel. When someone kills them self: everyone loses.
     
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  18. Morpheus

    Morpheus Community Member

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    Basically the difference between a really bad idea and an unethical act is that you can blame the person for doing what they did if it's deemed unethical.
     
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  19. efromm

    efromm Hiding In My Shell...
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    I know the place your coming from having been picked on myself I tended to focus on getting picked on. All that did was make me a victim in the end. A victim of myself and a victim of my past events. After several tries and some good luck with not getting the job done, I just decided to look at myself and see where I went wrong.

    I found that I put way too much emphasis on what other people thought about me. Never realizing that these people had reasons of their own for bulling me that I did not know. Looking back now I am glad I pulled myself out of the hole. I still think about not killing myself from time to time I think it is a stress thing for me I go into emotional over load. I slip from time to time it's how I think about it now that makes a difference. And if I did not believe in God and the existence of my soul I would have done it a long time ago.

    I find it very easy to get into the dark zone. That so called rich inner life of the infj is really a cold dark place that most people can't comprehend. We put so much thought into things sometimes I think we go overboard. That's why my new I don't give a shit attitude works perfect for me. In the end it's really your choice I know now that the dark days only last as long as you want them too. Now I deal with the feelings and I move on, no sense making my life a hell filled with other peoples words..
     
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  20. bamf

    bamf Is Watching You
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    Has anyone here to is saying suicide is a personal choice had anyone in their lives that they cared about commit suicide? Like say a girlfriend whom came to you and confessed about her desires to end her life and then ultimately did? Because let me tell you from personal experience, loosing someone to suicide, especially when you know about the intentions, is an indescribable emotion and something the people left behind can and never will get over.

    Suicide is selfish. Ego is selfish. Thinking your pain is enough to justify destroying other people is selfish. (I do think euthanasia for terminally ill patients is exceptable)
     
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