Suicide: is it ethical? | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Suicide: is it ethical?

A person should govern their life according to what is best for them. We shouldn't live our lives for other people; we're not alive to make sure others are happy. We can only contribute to the happiness of others once we've achieved and are able to maintain our own contentment. When a person achieves this, they are able to give selflessly to others because they are already fulfilled in themselves.

Everything begins in the internal world and moves to the external. Nobody makes anyone happy or keeps anyone happy because our own emotions etc. are our own responsibility.

I don't think that suicide is an act made in one's best self-interest, though. Is it a 'happy making' act or a 'giving up' action? If anything, I'd say suicide is the ultimate act of self-betrayal.



If you're going to take the license to end your life based on your own authority, why not just take the license to live your life based on your own authority?
 
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Virgoess said:
That's an interesting perspective.

If I were to use logic (which granted isn't my #1), to bring something to conclusion that you never see any future, hope or improvement - is that not in a way logical? I ask because yes, it may be based in the deep emotional recesses of the mind but there is a certain logic behind it in the process and outcome.
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I don't think there is anything logical about that. I think it'd be logical to
form the hypothesis that : you never see any future, hope or improvement

Then, continue living, exploring every possible option to the improvement of one's life

That's kinda scientific methody.

But it's illogical to assume based on a present circumstance or previous life experience that there is no future or improvement when all options have not been explored into the matter. That's just speculation.
And anyway, it would take someone a lifetime to explore every good thing (whatever one deems good) and whether these good things improve life or give it meaning.
 
suicide: is it unethical?

CoffeeShopDiva said:
Did either of your parents display symptoms of being bipolar?
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My mother most definitely had bipolar, probably type I. She remained untreated all her life. Sometimes thinking of what her life must've been like breaks my heart. Lithium was discovered to be effective in treating bipolar in 1977, when she was 55; before that there wasn't much.

My father may have had major depression most of his life. He, too, went undiagnosed and untreated. His depression and his rages affected us all, but I loved him very much.

My brothers didn't miss out either: One has chronic depression--untreated--and symptoms of OCD; the other appears to be hypomanic most of the time, the lucky dog. I'm the only one who cycles and the only one in treatment...in recovery, really.

Ask a simple question...
 
Anica, I am so sorry to hear about your parents. I would guess you may be the one closest to the reality of suicide here, having experienced it twice in your family. Anything positive to say about it?
Only time I can think of glad about hearing someone's committing suicide is after they have taken another's life or more. While it still doesn't make it right, and it is no excuse to use to try and justify it to oneself, I do see a bit of poetic justice in it. If taking others out with you is your choice, go see a shrink and stay away from weapons. It may be something physical or mental, but ya sure cannot fix it later when you're gone. I cannot fathom a justifiable suicide.....sorry.
 
I think suicide is unethical, what is unethical is what hurts others. However I just wanted to make it clear that if someone chooses to commit suicide it does not say anything about how selfish or unselfish the individual is. Only the amount of pain he or she is in.
 
Which opens up the line of debate, Palliative Care.

Thirty years ago my grandfather was diagnosed with terminal cancer. The doctors gave him 6 months to live. Every 6 - 9 months he'd go to see the doctors and they'd give an update of 6 months to live. His cancers metastasised and he died about ten years ago. He didn't die from the cancer however, he "accidentally" overdosed on morphine after being on morphine for many months and at the end he actually had three active drips to keep the pain at bay.

I don't say this as a sob story, nor to sway your opinions emotionally, but to relate in a very basic way how life can become completely unbearable and futile to save. Eventually everyone deserves to go out with dignity, even if they're a mass murderer/rapist/paedophile (which my granddad wasn't). Death is the ultimate known barrier, people shouldn't need to go out pathetic and painfully if it can be avoided.
 
Shai Gar said:
Which opens up the line of debate, Palliative Care.

Thirty years ago my grandfather was diagnosed with terminal cancer. The doctors gave him 6 months to live. Every 6 - 9 months he'd go to see the doctors and they'd give an update of 6 months to live. His cancers metastasised and he died about ten years ago. He didn't die from the cancer however, he "accidentally" overdosed on morphine after being on morphine for many months and at the end he actually had three active drips to keep the pain at bay.

I don't say this as a sob story, nor to sway your opinions emotionally, but to relate in a very basic way how life can become completely unbearable and futile to save. Eventually everyone deserves to go out with dignity, even if they're a mass murderer/rapist/paedophile (which my granddad wasn't). Death is the ultimate known barrier, people shouldn't need to go out pathetic and painfully if it can be avoided.
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I agree I have relatives who are in a bad state and I think it would be better... if they weren't alive. Not that I don't love them I just don't think they should be in such pain.

Sometimes the "slings of outrageous fortune" are worse then sleep.
 
Which kind of makes me reconsider my original stance. Is everything that is ethical, ethical? If you believe in a duality in the universe like I do wouldn't it sometimes be better to do the unethical thing yet the right thing?

Does ethical equal right?

Now I have gone and confused myself. Thanks Shai!
 
right=good=ethical

But a lot of the time you don't have the choice between a good thing and a bad thing. Just a bad thing and another bad thing. What then?
 
suicide: is it unethical?

just me said:
Anica, I am so sorry to hear about your parents. I would guess you may be the one closest to the reality of suicide here, having experienced it twice in your family. Anything positive to say about it?
Only time I can think of glad about hearing someone's committing suicide is after they have taken another's life or more. While it still doesn't make it right, and it is no excuse to use to try and justify it to oneself, I do see a bit of poetic justice in it. If taking others out with you is your choice, go see a shrink and stay away from weapons. It may be something physical or mental, but ya sure cannot fix it later when you're gone. I cannot fathom a justifiable suicide.....sorry.
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Do I have anything positive to say about suicide? Not really, though Shai Gar makes a strong point in his story about his granddad. But neither of my parents were terminally ill and though they were in great psychological pain, most of it was of their own making. They had other options, such as figuring out how to live with each other or going their separate ways. I remember at their memorial service I said to their closest friend that very close couples often died within months of each other but that I didn't think my parents actually loved each other. I'll never forget her reply: "No, they didn't love each other; they consumed each other."
 
anica said:
Do I have anything positive to say about suicide? Not really, though Shai Gar makes a strong point in his story about his granddad. But neither of my parents were terminally ill and though they were in great psychological pain, most of it was of their own making. They had other options, such as figuring out how to live with each other or going their separate ways. I remember at their memorial service I said to their closest friend that very close couples often died within months of each other but that I didn't think my parents actually loved each other. I'll never forget her reply: "No, they didn't love each other; they consumed each other."
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You are a testimate to the amazing inner strength that humans can possess.
 
The story about my granddad is meant to make people stop and think, hnnh, maybe saying never isn't the best idea.

There are always reasons.
 
I could almost hear everyone now if there was a legal death chamber where people could kill themselves without a lot of mess to clean up. No way I'm going down that road; I've watched "House" too many times.
 
suicide: is it unethical?

Shai Gar said:
The story about my granddad is meant to make people stop and think, hnnh, maybe saying never isn't the best idea.

There are always reasons.
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I got your point and acknowledged it in my post. I even agree that there are always reasons; I just don't agree that all of them justify suicide.
 
You're assuming I take the time to actually read other peoples posts instead of skimming them.
:m182:
 
suicide: is it unethical?

Shai Gar said:
You're assuming I take the time to actually read other peoples posts instead of skimming them.
:m182:
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Bad assumption, huh? I'll keep that in mind in the future.
 
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