[PUG] Suicide is Acceptable

[bamf]

I think there are a lot of social constructs regarding people that lead to suicide. The aspect I mentioned with regards to being considered "weak" is just one. Another is being considered a "freak". If someone feel is being margainalised in society for opposing a norm and they notice that while other causes garner large amounts of supporters and proponets yet their feelings of being margainalised are going unrecognised, considered irrelevant , or are being invalidated, such people may feel outcasted and repudiated. As apparently no one cares about their pain they feel as though they are worthless. Some conform, others do not. Those that do not can go through life feeling as though no one can ever understand them or will even try. They can feel disconnected from other people and unwanted, unappreciated, or just downright loathed. And thus feel depressed insofar as to desire to end their life. They begin to think that no one would understand their pain, they do not discuss it or reach out- perhaps even rejecting those that reach out them. And perhaps end their life. The destructive cycle then continues as the person who took their own life can be considered mentally ill; which leads to their violation of the norm being labeled as sign of mental illness, further leading to repudiation and ostracisation of such individuals. And the disconcerting cycle continues

Regardless of the society, these are things all humans are capable of feeling, and things that I'd wage have, and will always, exist. The solution isn't to make everyone fit in or be accepted. That simply will never happen. Society also isn't to blame for suicide. While it may influence people into feelings of worthlessness, I'd wager that all societies will influence people in such a way.

The problem is what do we do for those who contemplate/attempt suicide?
While I agree with you that social constructs can influence people's attitudes, I'd argue that they don't lead people to suicide. The things you described fit a very large number of people. I'd bet that almost everyone feels the odd one out in different situations. So why do a few people choose suicide, when so many don't? I would say that there is something mentally different for some people if the norm is to not kill ones self. However, being different is not a weakness, and I think that it often is portrayed as being one.

So what do we do? I think we need to stop blaming something as big as "society" for the extremely personal problem of suicide. Blaming something so big and nameless seems pointless to me. Even if we changed society, the same problems of someone being left out, or feeling worthless would still exist. Yes, I think we need to work on the pervasiveness of certain things like a throw-away culture, money=success, and the such, but I don't think they offer a solution. Rather, seeing as suicide is an extremely personal choice, I think prevention/education needs to happen on a personal level. Ultimately though, we have to understand that people will commit suicide, and it was their choice to do so. The "world" can only be at fault to a certain extent, it was the individual who pulled the trigger.

 

[Barnabas]

who am i to determine the moral/non moral implications of anything, nonetheless suicide?

Who are you post in this thread?

 

[acd]

whered the OP go?

Originally Posted by Dragon
At present, there are many social and moral sanctions on suicide. These moral ans social sanctions are systems that often debase the suicidal. For example, they may consider the suicidal to be weak, constituted contrary to nature, and/or frequently "sinners". In spite of this, the fact that humans commit suicide may arguably completely undermine some ethical systems.

Anyway, life is suffering. Conversely, death is the cessation of suffering. As a result, if someone wishes to or attempts to end their life, there is no acceptable reason for thinking less of them as a person for wishing to (or doing) so.

Should suicide be discouraged? While I would like to say yes, I don't think that I can agree to that in all situations. There does come a point when you have to admit that, if you were that person, you would commit suicide too.

Therefore/

Proposition: The most insensitive and amoral thing that a person can do is to call someone weak for attempting suicide.

Discuss.

Here you are m'dear boy.

 

[just me]

whered the OP go?

Could have at least put a question mark in the name of the title....

 

[Roger]

Suicide means negative thought and also cowardice deed. No. I don't agree with this and will never accept it.

In other words, suicide is killing chance of living life which was given by god. God gave you courage and power, so you don't think about suicide.

 

[acd]

I think of suicidal tendencies or thoughts as a symptom of illness or injury--which can be treated or mended..
(If you have a broken leg it's going to hurt like hell but that doesn't mean you should cut it off.)

I don't really think of it as a valid decision one makes, therefore I can't say it's weak or cowardly. It's a symptom of hurt that needs to be healed.



I'm not talking about something like Shai Gar's grandfather though. That's different, a much different thing than someone who is depressed or mentally ill committing suicide. I don't think that is cowardly or weak either. I can sort of understand why someone would choose to do that.. having the medical care to keep you alive enough to suffer and not cure you or even improve your quality of life...

 

[just me]

I know what I believe but abstain because of a personal friend's brother and his reasons.

 

[Ria]

I find it dismissive and ignorant to see suicide as a selfish act. I'd rather it didn't have to be the case, but sadly it is a fact of life that people have, do and will continue to commit suicide. I say this because:

When we see people who are in physical pain and exist on analgesics such as morphine etc., it is apparent to our eye that they are having to live a lesser quality of life. I see it everyday in my work. Life, precious as it is, sometimes doesnt feel that acceptible on a concious and unconcious level. Suffering is tiring, especially if it is long term, and quite often the individual is left wishing for death, as their days of living actually feel more like killing time, than just being peaceful and "normal". So then, when we think of people who are living this way and they have no chance of living anyother pain fre way, we feel for them, and can imagine death as something acceptible, as apposed to seeing it as something acceptible for someone who has no physical ailment etc.

...

now if we look at someone who suffers an invisible ailment such as myself, there is always far les tollerance, and people's attitudes to my thoughts on suicide have felt dismissive and apathetic. Mental and emotional pain due to whatever cause, is just as impossible to live with somedays, either with or without medical treatement as any physical ailment. But, as it is not as visable (thus understandable) to others, there is less patience for our suffering by the general public. To suffer in extreme for any reason, is probably the most lonelies experience one can have. It is especially lonely and isolating if it is due to an uncommon sircumstance.

So to me, suicide is a real shame, and I don't like the thought of it at all. I would miss a loved one, even if it was one of my own daughters, but as I can understand how it feels to hurt that deeply, I would love them enough to validate their need to go. Maybe to struggle with an issue such as this myself, brings me a perspective that I might draw some sort of unconditional wisdom from, that most would not necessarily understand. And, I don't expect this to be a popular or appreciated post by many, and that's ok. I also understand how many people would not understand, because they would not want to understand or even go there... and I wouldn't blame anyone for disagreeing with my opinion.

 

[NeverAmI]

There are all kinds of different reasons for suicide.

Despair, intolerable pain, honor, etc. I think there is an utter lack of emotion a lot of times these days in teens that are suicidal, life just seems too mundane, too drab and too pointless to continue forward.

Suicide is a symptom, albeit.... kinda hard to fix after the fact.... yea...

But it isn't too late to fix the root causes for those who haven't yet done it. Is it acceptable? What is the true question? It is a fact, it happens, so it must be accepted to an extent. Must it be facilitated? No, I don't think so.

When I was young, what kept me from offing myself was the fact that I didn't want to put others through emotional turmoil, so it was my empathy. These days, it is that on top of being a role model for my niece and nephews, plus I would consider myself a coward in the act of doing so.

In another view, I could see myself as a coward for not doing so, because in my mind there is a certain probability that I would completely cease to exist after death, and any sort of discontinuation scares me.

 

[Faye]

Apparently some disagree, Why do I have the feeling your not aiming this at the young adult crowd? Maybe the elderly who suffer from disease there bodies can no longer fight.


I had a teacher in highschool, he told me that suicide is a perment solution to a temporarey problem.

I was talking about any possible situation, including historical ones i.e. when the slaves threw themselves off the ships on the way over to the Americas.

 

[NeverAmI]

I was talking about any possible situation, including historical ones i.e. when the slaves threw themselves off the ships on the way over to the Americas.

I would kill myself with a spoon if I knew the fate waiting for me aboard one of those ships!

 

[under skies]

I find it dismissive and ignorant to see suicide as a selfish act.

I completely agree with this statement, and it is basically what I was going to say.

I think in many situations suicide may seem like an unreasonable choice to some. I really can't say, as far as anyone else is concerned. I only know what is acceptable for me.

The ironic part to me is that I think as soon as a person calls a suicidal person selfish that they become the selfish one. I don't know if you can look at another person's life and rightfully point out what is or isn't "more important" than the person's happiness (or lack thereof)/free will.

 

[acd]

I would kill myself with a spoon if I knew the fate waiting for me aboard one of those ships!

I would fight to the death. Or, try to survive until we hit land.. Then fight to the death. At least I'd like to think that's what I'd do..

 

[NeverAmI]

I would fight to the death. Or, try to survive until we hit land.. Then fight to the death. At least I'd like to think that's what I'd do..

In all truth I have a hard time predicting what I would do. I would be a different person in that situation.

 

[Shai Gar]

WITH A SPOON!

 

[chocky]

Spoon!

Cue Hairless Blue Tick.

No matter how low, ugly, or utterly evil you feel . . . there is ALWAYS someone out there who cares about you . . . ALWAYS.

Think about it.

If you or anyone else you know is feeling suicidal, PLEASE get help. I solemnly swear and promise you that this is not meant in a condescending way, but in a truly caring and understanding way. You may feel utterly worthless, but, trust me, you're not to someone.

i'd wager that there are many more than just one good post Nucky

How is it possible to assert such a thing? *befuddled*

 

[Tactical Panda]

Then why does it feel so wrong to tell people to stop complaining and just go kill themselves when they are in a serious emotionally fragile state? Or is telling someone to kill themselves is merely a poorly thought out cultural taboo; is the truth that the value of a human life just a foolish lie?

What if we put it this way: if the OP was suicidal, would you put it out there and tell the OP that suicide was a perfectly valid option to consider? Why or why not?

"There is no hope worth believing in. You can stake your life on that, more or less literally. You are disposable; your life and the lives of everyone you care about are at the mercy of a human will. You can stake your life on that too." Why wouldn't you support this sort of statement? Or would you support it?

I don't support suicide. And for all the strange disturbing cases I support a last ditch risk of your very life on something worth fighting for. But aside from the grand talk I've hardly walked the walk, so take it how you will. But it does makes sense.

 

[Holden On]

My grandfather committed suicide. I supported that action 100% we always want more time with the victim because we know that we won't ever get time again.

But his cancer was terminal and he had been suffering for 20 years, the last 2 in complete agony on Morphine.

My grandmother also died of cancer - she hadn't been suffering for 20 years, but the cancer had been very aggressive over the course of 6 months. She did not commit suicide or anything, but if she had wanted to I wouldn't have blamed her.

In the case of terminal illness and suffering, I support suicide as a form of euthanasia. I also believe it should be okay for a doctor to euthanize a patient if the patient desires it, is suffering greatly, and has no hope for recovery. Yes, the family will certainly be said, but I for one would rather grieve for the loss of a loved-one and celebrate the time we did have together, than watch them suffer through prolonged, terminal illness if they desire to end their suffering.

As for people who are suicidal because of depression other mental health conditions, or life circumstances.... well, I can empathize, but I can't condone it. It is tragic that anyone should feel so hopeless that they feel suicide is the only answer... however, I don't believe the suicidal person should be reviled, but rather a society that allows such suffering to go unnoticed and unabated.

 

[Barnabas]

Spoon!

Cue Hairless Blue Tick.






How is it possible to assert such a thing? *befuddled*

Your obviously new here, welcome to the forum.

 

[Requiem]

Suicide being right or wrong is different with each individual story. For example : What if a hermit with no family committed suicide? No one knows her/him, doesn't effect society, its as if nothing happen the next day.

I think one should strive to look for alternatives but in the end you know what's best for you. If you have family make sure they are taken care of. Perhaps I am just playing the other side here but I think most people commit suicide for the wrong reason. However I believe that for many who die for the wrong reasons there must be a few where suicide was the best solution.