"Refugees" What is Europe thinking? | Page 6 | INFJ Forum

"Refugees" What is Europe thinking?

just me said:
Scrow, I didn't expect you to understand. Food for thought for you. I did expect you to try and hammer it, though.

Let the others see if they understand. People migrated to America. They destroyed it to make something for themselves.

We should learn from history. "A parcel of land for $12"

We buy land and continually repay for it in taxes. When we get old, it is taken away from us: even though we helped our government to survive. All the while, it was taken from the Indians and all I hear about are the slaves. Hide the Indians under the slaves?
Blame the South? Anything else you can come up with? What a difference one rifle made. That would be the Henry Repeating Rifle the South did not have. Blame it on slavery, but collect your taxes the same ways they were collected when the migrants fled and came here. Greed and corruption are the enemies of us all. Our government takes from its people to survive. If I have to take, I will go without. If others do not want me to have, I will make do with what I have and live off the land the way the first Americans did.
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Tie that into the refugee crisis now please.
Can you even do that, or are you too far off topic now?

This “crisis” is propped up by the US…I mean, it’s basically our fault for destabilizing the region under false pretenses - proven time and time again to be lies.
And yet how many refugees have we taken?

What was that quote written on the Statue of Liberty again?
Guess that doesn’t apply to Muslims.
(they could be secret terrorists sneaking into Murica and then Bam! Gotcha…Sharia Law motherfuckers!)
 
This is not meant for you. You can't understand that? It is tied in, but you can't see it.

You cannot de-classify anything to prove this is all the US' fault. Conjecture from bias.

Quote from that long ago? Do you even listen to some of them, or do you feel they are all irrelevant now?

Do you like Sharia Law? Move to Mecca.
hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-speak-no-evil.jpg
 
Yes, US politics is the biggest reason for this crysis. Same thing expanded from north africa to middle east causing mass wave of people moving to EU, right hand of US. In last 5-10y, US had put missile shields all across EU and made middle east army playground. I hope that final purpose isn't to provoke Russia into war or else we're all screwed..
 
just me said:
This is not meant for you. You can't understand that? It is tied in, but you can't see it.

You cannot de-classify anything to prove this is all the US' fault. Conjecture from bias.

Quote from that long ago? Do you even listen to some of them, or do you feel they are all irrelevant now?

Do you like Sharia Law? Move to Mecca.
hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-speak-no-evil.jpg
Click to expand...
Wow…I know sarcasm doesn’t translate well over this thing sometimes but you really missed that one.
 
housel said:
Yes, US politics is the biggest reason for this crysis. Same thing expanded from north africa to middle east causing mass wave of people moving to EU, right hand of US. In last 5-10y, US had put missile shields all across EU and made middle east army playground. I hope that final purpose isn't to provoke Russia into war or else we're all screwed..
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From 2013, but still relevant to this discussion - http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...invasions-destabilize-the-middle-east/274190/
 
images
 
In March of 1949 the C.I.A. orchestrated a Coup in Syria on behalf of the Trans-Arabian Pipeline, which the democratically elected government of Syria had blocked.
This event had led to decades of instability.

In 1953 the C.I.A pulled off a coup d'etat on Iran on behalf of British Petroleum.
The reality is the U.S. Government on behalf of large multi national corporations are responsible for the whole history of chaos and death in the middle east.

The U.S. government would always officially claim to be combating Communism when in reality they were doing the dirty work of some corporation.
Not a conspiracy theory but a proven fact!

For more info on the Coup of 1949 in Syria:

http://www.slate.com/…/syrian_violence_was_the_cia_involved…
https://en.wikipedia.org/…/March_1949_Syrian_coup_d%27%C3%A…


[video=youtube;sE0fucxLvKI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sE0fucxLvKI[/video]


We just can’t leave things well enough alone.​
 
copied History of Syria
Syria became independent on 17 April 1946. Syrian politics from independence through the late 1960s were marked by upheaval. Between 1946 and 1956, Syria had 20 different cabinets and drafted four separate constitutions.
In 1948, Syria was involved in the Arab-Israeli War, aligning with the other local Arab states who were opposed to the establishment of the state of Israel.[SUP][14][/SUP] The Syrian army entered northern Palestine but, after bitter fighting, was gradually driven back to the Golan Heights by the Israelis. An armistice was agreed in July 1949. A "supposed" demilitarized zone under UN supervision was established; the status of these territories proved a stumbling-block for all future Syrian-Israeli negotiations. It was during this period that many Syrian Jews, who faced growing discrimination, left Syria as part of Jewish exodus from Arab countries.

President Adib Shishakli​

The outcome of the war was one of factors behind the March 1949 Syrian coup d'état by Col. Husni al-Za'im, in what has been described as the first military overthrow of the Arab World[SUP][14][/SUP] since the Second World War. This was soon followed by another coup by Col. Sami al-Hinnawi.[SUP][14][/SUP] Army officer Adib Shishakli seized power in the third military coup of 1949. A Jabal al-Druze uprising was suppressed after extensive fighting (1953—54). Growing discontent eventually led to another coup, in which Shishakli was overthrown in February 1954. The Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party, founded in 1947, played a part in the overthrow of Shishakli. Veteran nationalist Shukri al-Quwatli was president from 1955 until 1958, but by then his post was largely ceremonial.
Power was increasingly concentrated in the military and security establishment, which had proved itself to be the only force capable of seizing and, perhaps, keeping power.[SUP][14][/SUP] Parliamentary institutions remained weak, dominated by competing parties representing the landowning elites and various Sunni urban notables, whilst the economy was mismanaged and little was done to better the role of Syria's peasant majority. In November 1956, as a direct result of the Suez Crisis,[SUP][15][/SUP] Syria signed a pact with the Soviet Union, providing a foothold for Communist influence within the government in exchange for planes, tanks, and other military equipment being sent to Syria.[SUP][14][/SUP]
 
*sigh*

I guess there is at least some humorous irony in this thread being hijacked by American politics.
 
housel said:
Yes, US politics is the biggest reason for this crysis. Same thing expanded from north africa to middle east causing mass wave of people moving to EU, right hand of US. In last 5-10y, US had put missile shields all across EU and made middle east army playground. I hope that final purpose isn't to provoke Russia into war or else we're all screwed..
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Do you think that perhaps in the future, should this mass refugee trend continue, perhaps with large amounts of unrest, that the EU will fall apart?
and if it does, what do you think will happen to all the non-welfare countries which tend to let refugees go where they want to (germany/sweden/etc.) and largely go untouched in favor of the welfare countries aside from an economic hit, trampled fields and comparebly minor unrest?

I am very interested in seeing what a non-total annihalation of europe scenario would look like if the problem can be contained to the welfare countries that are slowly but surely over run. I wonder because I cannot stand the thought of some countries being lost after centuries of fighting off the various armies from the middle east. Something I do believe is that if the EU falls apart by the welfare countries becoming one big caliphate, that perhaps even if it is just for security reasons, that we might see a re-emmegence of a union between the fairly uneffected countries. Possibly even with strong russian ties should the US not have done a complete 180 from their current policies.
 
All I hear are dark scenarios from everyone.
Seriously?

We can do better than that as a human race…we are more generous, intelligent, inventive, and have the ability to feel empathy (most of us do anyhow).
Clearly, this is a very complex issue from many aspects and is ongoing, so we don’t yet know the full extent and impact this will have on the world and Europe.
Let’s figure out ways to begin to fix some of the problems…let’s tap our best economists, our best diplomats, let’s chill with the xenophobic attitudes because it’s happening if you like it or not - things are changing…the diversity is changing - all around the world, but this is the most dramatic example right now.

IDK…just call me ignorant for hoping that we can find ways to solve this crisis instead of just complaining or worrying about how it’s going to destroy this or that aspect of your country - make it work. Because the opposite is what you are worrying about.

I for one, hope that the US takes in more refugees and sends our military to help with this humanitarian crisis, but this isn’t very popular with most Americans…the media has everyone worried that ISIS is going to sneak in with the refugees.

Hmmm….must suck to worry about foreigners attacking you in your own country…you know, exactly what we’ve been all doing to the middle east for decades (or longer) now.

It’s not an unsolvable problem.
 
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My friend from Germany wrote me (we've been writing letters back and forth for about 15 years) and this is what she had to say:

"Politically it is an interesting time in Germany and there are a lot of developments to worry about. The main topic in the summer was Greece and the growing number of money that is needed form other European countries - first of all Germany - to prevent the country from insolvency. Then the growing number of refugees from mainly Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq and some African countries. Now it is a dominating topic and yes the main worry of people including myself. I consider myself to be fairly liberal and rather a touch more to the left from the political centre, but I can't deny that the amazing number of people frightens me.

Personally, what I find difficult to get used to is the high number of young men coming. I do understand that is incredibly expensive to cross the Mediterranean Sea and get to Europe. So, it is the fittest member of the family who is sent. There are some families too. The expected number of refugees coming to Germany this year is at least an estimated 1 million people. They probably hope for their families - and in these countries they have BIG families - to follow them, which should be possible according to the fairly liberal German laws. Of course, I feel sympathy for the refugees. A long, hard journey - mainly on foot - lies behind them. Here in Germany many of them have to live in big tents. In my home town the number of refugees is growing weekly. Because there are so many of them, some are sent to the villages and live in flats that nobody wanted to rent. What are they supposed to do in villages? There are only a few buses a day to get into town. They get money from the state, but of course not enough to pay for transport every day. Those who are put up in my town wander around town in groups of young men. Some of them have bikes to get from place to place. Not many of them are educated enough to start work after a language course. Many volunteers are needed to help with integration. Another question is: Do they want to integrate? The majority of them are Muslims. There is a growing number of women with headscarves in the streets. This I find especially disturbing. Of course I know that is part of their religion. Quite a few of these men don't accept women or shake hands with them. Even more than the refugees, the rise in night-winged demonstrations is a reason to worry about.

Our Chancellor Angela Merkel still does not want to put a limit to the number of refugees and that's why her popularity has fallen. Especially people in East Germany seem to find it difficult to accept her Christian invitation (her party is the CDU-Christian Democratic Uni.(?)). I think another reason to help refugees is our Germany history. Almost no other country in Europe helps them - only Sweden allows refugees to come to the country. Quite the opposite is true. They blame Germany for our "welcoming culture." Personally, I don't have enough time to work as a volunteer, but we donated clothes and toys that we do not need anymore. Although the development worries me, I still think the best thing to do is to help in one way or another."
 
Why are they leaving their homes? You just don't hear of African countries wanting to take care of these people. Blame everyone for their gut feelings, but what is said of intuition? Gangs of young men with nothing to do? Breeding grounds for criminals. AlQaeda would swoop them up in a second. People have a right to worry. Being Christian does not mean letting your family and friends wash over the waterfall. I don't want to be done like the Indians were done.

People have a right to worry and listen to their thoughts.
 
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Skarekrow said:
All I hear are dark scenarios from everyone.
Seriously?

We can do better than that as a human race…we are more generous, intelligent, inventive, and have the ability to feel empathy (most of us do anyhow).
Clearly, this is a very complex issue from many aspects and is ongoing, so we don’t yet know the full extent and impact this will have on the world and Europe.
Let’s figure out ways to begin to fix some of the problems…let’s tap our best economists, our best diplomats, let’s chill with the xenophobic attitudes because it’s happening if you like it or not - things are changing…the diversity is changing - all around the world, but this is the most dramatic example right now.

IDK…just call me ignorant for hoping that we can find ways to solve this crisis instead of just complaining or worrying about how it’s going to destroy this or that aspect of your country - make it work. Because the opposite is what you are worrying about.

I for one, hope that the US takes in more refugees and sends our military to help with this humanitarian crisis, but this isn’t very popular with most Americans…the media has everyone worried that ISIS is going to sneak in with the refugees.

Hmmm….must suck to worry about foreigners attacking you in your own country…you know, exactly what we’ve been all doing to the middle east for decades (or longer) now.

It’s not an unsolvable problem.
Click to expand...

On the human level there is not much problem: people are people wherever they are. No one is going to starve to death in Germany, or virtually any other European country.

Xenophobia is an unhelpful label to throw around, because it just says some of your views cannot even be discussed.

If we were still in the early 1940's would it be xenophobia to say: we don't want the Nazi regime to take over Europe and later take over the US? (Back then there were no nuclear weapons - and the eventual development was made possible by German physicists taken to the US after the war). I mean, the Germans back then were people, looking for new lands/homes - couldn't you have just welcomed them with open hearts?

Obviously the American answer would be no - because the ideology they would have brought with them.

When you look at how minorities are treated in every single Muslim country - the comparison with Nazism isn't too far a stretch, except that the Nazis were far more organised, disciplined, and united.

The issue is not that more humans are entering Europe. It is that they are taking their destructive ideology with them. That needs to be addressed.


Just google "muslims synagogues france" (play around with the upload date parameters) and you will see what I mean by Islam being a problematic ideology, which will have real-world consequences and has had for quite some time in Europe already.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
On the human level there is not much problem: people are people wherever they are. No one is going to starve to death in Germany, or virtually any other European country.

Xenophobia is an unhelpful label to throw around, because it just says some of your views cannot even be discussed.

If we were still in the early 1940's would it be xenophobia to say: we don't want the Nazi regime to take over Europe and later take over the US? (Back then there were no nuclear weapons - and the eventual development was made possible by German physicists taken to the US after the war). I mean, the Germans back then were people, looking for new lands/homes - couldn't you have just welcomed them with open hearts?

Obviously the American answer would be no - because the ideology they would have brought with them.

When you look at how minorities are treated in every single Muslim country - the comparison with Nazism isn't too far a stretch, except that the Nazis were far more organised, disciplined, and united.

The issue is not that more humans are entering Europe. It is that they are taking their destructive ideology with them. That needs to be addressed.


Just google "muslims synagogues france" (play around with the upload date parameters) and you will see what I mean by Islam being a problematic ideology, which will have real-world consequences and has had for quite some time in Europe already.
Click to expand...

I’m not denying that a problem exists and many issues that didn’t exist before in those places now DO exist because of the change in migration and population.

Europe and America have been exploiting and warring in the middle east for over a century in some areas, now everyone gets upset when they hate us/you.
Poor us.

There is dangerous extremism but that exist everywhere in every religion, and yes, the Christians have killed just as many Muslims as they have killed Christians.

My whole point was - we are smart enough and have progressed forward enough in the evolution of mankind and society that we can figure out solutions to this mass exodus without it all falling to shit.

Also, having a xenophobic attitude and being a racist or having religious intolerance or even hatred are very different things.
I was only pointing out that so much of what has been said about these refugees and Muslims in general unfairly groups them all together and they are all immediately guilty it seems to some of the negative actions of others.
 
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