Prediction: Gay Marriage Will Fail

[dneecey]

Actually, as a side note: I wouldn't even care about the lack of religion and politics being separate if it wasn't for the fact that the ones in powhoer are either too gung-ho about the 'homosexuality is a sin and is poisoning humanity" crap, or totally afraid of the idea of difference in general. It's a shame, because I know not all Christians are anti-gay rights.

The whole situation is stupid to even be in debate.

Even though in our opinion (and trust me it is my opinion that homosexuals being discriminated against is stupid, immature, selfish, and COMPLETELY wrong) it's stupid to debate, and overwhelming that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Is it depressing and sad, yes.. unfortunately so, but it can not just be accepted.. it must not. Homosexual people.. are just that! PEOPLE!! who deserve every right every other PERSON has. And the only way to see this actualized is through education, and education can often spur from debate... People shy away from politics because of how overwhelming it all can be. I am ashamed to admit that I have been one of these people for far too long, but I see now, that that is not the way.. *sigh*

I
It gets harder and harder to have passion about something when it has a 31-0 track record and the greatest threat to it is, "let the people vote". Americans generally see gay people and their relationships as inferior, and it's something I'm just going to have to come to accept. No amount of arguing from evidence or reason is going to change that outcome. The top news story will always be the Christian traditional marriage supporter who received an unsubstantiated death threat on their phone and had their yard sign vandalized, not the gay man who was beaten to death in an alley.

I had an uncle who was beaten to death because he was gay. This happened before I was born.. something like 30 years ago, maybe more. There is nothing that excuses that..


Perhaps its not in the arguing that change will come, although I do believe in debate, civil debate, as a way to bring forth education... however I think perhaps it is time for yourself to approach this fight in a different manner. Education is a powerful tool... It's not fast or easy.. It takes time, but it provides change.. Provide the education, just like you always do here. And as cliche as it sounds.. DON'T stop believing...

 

[christmas]

^ I understand. I want to see it too, but you can't give up. You're fighting the good fight.

 

[dneecey]

I believe in the good old U.S.A. even though she is really flawed. Eventually, we'll do the right thing. It is just going to take time, and even then it won't be perfect.

I just wanted to live long enough to see same sex marriage recognized nationwide in this country.

^ I understand. I want to see it too, but you can't give up. You're fighting the good fight.

Agreed!

 

[Blind Bandit]

Is it sad that I'm starting to think a division into two countries would be the most effective means for peace? Just draw a big line down the middle and let people who hate others living their lives differently take one half that we never need to look at again, and the rest of us who are accepting of it are perfectly fine with it enjoy ours?

Regardless, the fact that this is failing just pushes the idea of 'separation of church and state' that much further from any sign of ever having existed. This is exactly why I hate politics. It's like playing a game of tag where the rules change to only benefit the snobby brat kid.

/rant before I get too pissy.

Actually, as a side note: I wouldn't even care about the lack of religion and politics being separate if it wasn't for the fact that the ones in power are either too gung-ho about the 'homosexuality is a sin and is poisoning humanity" crap, or totally afraid of the idea of difference in general. It's a shame, because I know not all Christians are anti-gay rights.

The whole situation is stupid to even be in debate.

Sometimes I think we should have let the south split off then all the I hate everyone and i'm too stupid to understand the issue can go there. I hate to say that. You would think we would be passed this by now but no. We aren't.

No disrespect to anyone in the south.


But I'm shown this is again and again no world for idealists.

 

[Celsius100]

Heh, that sounds great in theory, but I think the last time we did something like that it was called The Civil War, and it kinda sucked.

Oh I know. It was mostly as a joke.
The sad thing though, is I honestly feel like it might work better as two divisions, except that I'm sure some kind of actual warfare would break out. Bleh.

I believe in the good old U.S.A. even though she is really flawed. Eventually, we'll do the right thing. It is just going to take time, and even then it won't be perfect.

I wish I could say I still have much confidence in it to do the right thing, but I get a bit annoyed at the stubbornness of some people to refuse to respect that not everyone is the same by lifestyle.

Sometimes I think we should have let the south split off then all the I hate everyone and i'm too stupid to understand the issue can go there. I hate to say that. You would think we would be passed this by now but no. We aren't.

No disrespect to anyone in the south.


But I'm shown this is again and again no world for idealists.

Eh, there was a good deal of good though in the prevention of a secession then though, as it at least led to the full abolishment of slavery in the US. Had the south seceded then, I think it would have ended up for the worst for those living as slaves at the time and their descendants. It might not have been the change that has been occurring since the civil rights movement, but it at least helped to get rid of the notion of people as property in that area, and help to support that humans are humans (to a degree, considering that supremacy groups still exist). The fight in that instance was unification to bring forth the freedom of a people. Now that same unification is possibly the biggest obstacle for another group.

I dunno. It's a pain to think about, since there are too many factors that could end up hurting people to break that as well. But I definitely agree that you'd think people could be past the point of a sense of superiority, at least temporarily, when making 'executive' decisions.

 

[slant]

I advise all couples, gay or straight to reject legal marriage all together.

love is NOT a contract.

Supported.


But, as for Gay Marriage, it will occur for the next generation (my) generation.

We are seeing that more and more children are athiests, less have homophobias towards gays; I don't think anyone really expected for Gay Marriage to push so easily through like that. Like that novel in which a character, Atticus, defends the black man even though he knows he will lose- only for future generations to built on the movement later. All of this activism has attracted the attention of younger generations whom, once it is their turn to take charge, will enable Gay Marriage.

 

[INFJesus]

Supported.


But, as for Gay Marriage, it will occur for the next generation (my) generation.

We are seeing that more and more children are athiests, less have homophobias towards gays; I don't think anyone really expected for Gay Marriage to push so easily through like that. Like that novel in which a character, Atticus, defends the black man even though he knows he will lose- only for future generations to built on the movement later. All of this activism has attracted the attention of younger generations whom, once it is their turn to take charge, will enable Gay Marriage.

I am Canadian ,gay marriage is legal there. I am presently in Europe and it legal here too. Some day the USA will join the human race. I hope

 

[Blind Bandit]

I am Canadian ,gay marriage is legal there. I am presently in Europe and it legal here too. Some day the USA will join the human race. I hope

We can only hope.

 

[slant]

It's legal is mexico!!!

 

[TheLastMohican]

Civil marriage will be done away with completely long before same sex marriage is nationally recognized.

I don't know what you mean by this. Why would civil marriage ever be completely done away with? Isn't it increasingly popular in the U.S.? And if you only meant civil unions, then I think your approach is flawed: if you believe that even they will be struck down by voters, then the best bet is to pursue the current same-sex marriage case in the court system. (Hey, Roe vs. Wade was an unpopular decision in its time, too, but it stood.)

 

[The Jester]

It's legal is mexico!!!

It's legal is mexico?

I am disappoint.

 

[Satya]

It's legal is mexico!!!

Mexico City.

I don't know what you mean by this. Why would civil marriage ever be completely done away with? Isn't it increasingly popular in the U.S.?

Religious marriage is increasingly popular. More and more conservative minded inviduals are questioning why the government is involved in marriage, and in time will probably try to remove government from the marriage business, thereby absolving civil marriage and leaving it to be a religious issue.

And if you only meant civil unions, then I think your approach is flawed: if you believe that even they will be struck down by voters, then the best bet is to pursue the current same-sex marriage case in the court system. (Hey, Roe vs. Wade was an unpopular decision in its time, too, but it stood.)

Not really. At this point, conservatives can simply argue that just about any gay rights initiative is a step towards same sex marriage. Even job discrimination legislation is considered a stepping stone in that direction. So no matter what right at this point gays attempt to get, conservatives will combat it under the premise of fighting same sex marriage, even if it is only civil unions or domestic partnerships. Washington state taught us that much when they tried to expand the domestic partnership rights to include everything but the word "marriage" and the R-71 referendum was initiated to overturn it. R-71 is the only victory that gay rights advocates have had this year, and even that was by a thin margin.

 

[TheLastMohican]

Religious marriage is increasingly popular.

No it isn't. Marriage rates in the U.S. have been declining for decades.

More and more conservative minded inviduals are questioning why the government is involved in marriage, and in time will probably try to remove government from the marriage business, thereby absolving civil marriage and leaving it to be a religious issue.

And give up all those tax breaks and other benefits? I don't see that happening anytime soon. Even if it does, I don't see why civil unions would have to go along with it. The popularity of civil union proposals is largely built on their separate status from religious marriage.

Not really. At this point, conservatives can simply argue that just about any gay rights initiative is a step towards same sex marriage. Even job discrimination legislation is considered a stepping stone in that direction. So no matter what right at this point gays attempt to get, conservatives will combat it under the premise of fighting same sex marriage, even if it is only civil unions or domestic partnerships. Washington state taught us that much when they tried to expand the domestic partnership rights to include everything but the word "marriage" and the R-71 referendum was initiated to overturn it. R-71 is the only victory that gay rights advocates have had this year, and even that was by a thin margin.

Yeah... does that somehow mean appealing to the voters is a better strategy? I said that since you think that the voters are not going to be won over soon, you ought to focus on the courts instead.

 

[BenW]

If gay marriage fails, hopefully straight marriage will follow suite, and we can deinstitutionalize the entire idiotic concept.

 

[Barnabas]

I just wanted to live long enough to see same sex marriage recognized nationwide in this country.

You ain't dead yet. As much of what you say seem plausible, those who try to predict the future are often disapointed. If it will stand anywhere it will be in the courts.

I hate politics, it's simply killing the Church, thier are so many other things that we should be working together on and instead this is what makes the news. I'd like nothing more then to lead a full withdrawl of Christians from politics.

 

[Morgain]

I'm starting to wonder if the US is still "the land of the free". It seems to me more conservative than the "old motherland". Not only is guy marriage legal in Belgium, also adaption is. A collegue of mine is a lesbian living together with a women. Her partner is now pregnant (through in vitro fertilization) and now my collegue is going through the adoption process. It is still silly that she has to go to the adoption course since that course is set up for people who adopt children from other countries and learn how to deal with culture differences and binding problems. Since she will know the baby from day one (same as a father would) these are not issues for her. And it is also silly to consider that any silly stupid brainless girl can get knocked up from the most mean and brainless bastard and "raise" the child alone, while my collegue, a wonderful intellegent women, needs to take a course to raise a child!

I really hope that the US is turning towards more democracy and equal rights ... but since you've voted for Obama, I feel, things are changing now! We all hope for it!

 

[bamf]

Slant is right; by the time our generation (teens and 20's) is in political power, gay marriage will be legal. The discrimination against gays from older generations is slowly being weened from the youth.

 

[acd]

I advise all couples, gay or straight to reject legal marriage all together.

love is NOT a contract.

Indeed.

Why perpetuate an outdated tradition? For sentimental purposes? Or tax purposes? If it's for tax or insurance purposes, can't those benefits be obtained through other means?

 

[Motor Jax]

not the gay man who was beaten to death in an alley.

yea, that was kinda fun... lol, i am totally j/king here...

hmmm... i really don't care if it is passed or not...

but i wonder why the GOVERNMENT has its grubby little hands in the middle of it...

 

[corvidae]

Younger adults have lower voter turnout than older adults. And some of them aren't registered to vote at all. Eventually, though, I think gay marriage will become legal in more places. Don't give up!