Oil: Will We Ever Learn? | INFJ Forum

Oil: Will We Ever Learn?

bamf

bamf

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Apr 9, 2009
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We just need to genetically engineer aquatic oil eating creatures.

Problem solved. Lazyness prevails.
 
I hope we will, MF. Learn, that is.

I was just thinking how all the recent media coverage on oil spills in general, and specifically the one in the Gulf, has led to more coverage of the one(s) in Nigeria, and has probably created millions of "tree huggers" who, if nothing else, loathe oil companies. I believe it has, based on people I've talked to.

I can't say "we will learn", but I do believe recent events are making big ripples in people's conciousness. It will be interesting to see what the next decade or so brings... do you think we'll have less dependence on oil? Electric cars? Some clean source of energy no one has thought of yet? I hope so, wouldn't that be wonderful?
 
It seems that throughout history we always make the same mistake over and over, it takes a catastrophe for humans to finally wake up and even then.it is just truly sad how ignorant people can be of this issues, how this companies for their own selfish reasons just continue to do their irresponsibilities. We should have thought already of possible solutions..but humans want to keep living in what they have been accustomed to. It truly is very selfish.
 
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I think at this point everyone knows the extreme drawbacks of continued reliance on fossil fuels. There is however far too much money to be made in oil, they will continue to focus our reliance upon it until it ceases to be profitable.
 
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Janet said:
I hope we will, MF. Learn, that is.

I was just thinking how all the recent media coverage on oil spills in general, and specifically the one in the Gulf, has led to more coverage of the one(s) in Nigeria, and has probably created millions of "tree huggers" who, if nothing else, loathe oil companies. I believe it has, based on people I've talked to.

I can't say "we will learn", but I do believe recent events are making big ripples in people's conciousness. It will be interesting to see what the next decade or so brings... do you think we'll have less dependence on oil? Electric cars? Some clean source of energy no one has thought of yet? I hope so, wouldn't that be wonderful?
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I hope so too. My fear is that because the oil companies hold the money, and money=power, cleaner energy sources won't truly be investigated or used until the oil companies decide to do so. Should they realize oil isn't a money source, they will most likely look elsewhere.

It frightens me though that we may have to rely on these energy giants to lead the change.
 
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Yes, you're probably right about the money=power thing. But something else that = power is knowledge! :D There are some very smart people doing some very smart things out there in the world today. And also the knowledge that comes from more and more people learning the truth about oil companies is powerful.

If you feel like reading some interesting (though maybe not completely practical) articles, check out where these crazy smart people are getting energy:

Scavenging energy from the human body
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/speci...edded-Technologies-Power-From-the-People.html

Solar power
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/speci...h-Breakthrough-in-Harnessing-Solar-Power.html

These scientists make me feel like a completely different species.
 
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Its not that theres money to be made on oil... its just that every major find in the last century has been due to a boon in power from oil consumption. EVERYTHING is run on fossil fuels, everything. Take away oil tomorrow and I have to walk a full day just to get to my gf's house and a half day just to get to work. And thats assuming my job wasnt wiped out in the process of switching off of oil based products.

We are seriously stuck with oil until something else gets figured out and they better do it soon, because the world population is getting bigger and the oil supplies are getting smaller.
 
Yea seriously. It's imperative for us to wean off the dependence for oil and find an alternative energy source; but with the current oil cartels lobbying the governments, that doesn't seem likely at all. Sadly, money translates into power in this world and oil companies are of the richest corporations in the world.
 
Actually, we do have alternatives to oil. They've been thoroughly researched. The problem is that the oil companies and the government work together to keep them off the market, and thus they've never been tested or applied to that many situations. Remember, most of the wealth and political power is in the hands of people who benefit from our current oil-based situation.

Solar and wind are the only candidates that have reached the market, but taxes and lack of demand ensure that these solutions remain expensive. Incidentally, they also present the least threat to oil, because they're the least reliable and practical sources of energy.

I'm pretty sure that as soon we absolutely can't run our society on oil anymore, suddenly a "miracle" fuel will be "invented" to take its place.
 
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My vision of the future of Earth is total industrialization of the planet. Nature will exist only in climate controlled, artificial ecosystems because that is the only way it will be viable to maintain. Our living quarters will likely be isolated from the outside atmosphere as well.

Fundamentally, the problem that leads me to this conclusion is population growth. Medical technology continuously improves, and the world economies inch their way upward so more people have access to good medical care. Population growth will slow at one point, but it'll still increase without a unified world governing body that has direct military control to impose population limits, which is very unlikely.

A human being consumes so much space in order to live. Yes, we can build up, but it is far cheaper to build out. If you drive around Northern Michigan where I live, there are miles and miles of countryside. Most of that countryside is private land. Two hundred years from now, that countryside will likely not exist and Northern Michigan will be a web of interconnected metropolitan areas.

As population growth continues past the stage of sprawling metropolis, state and national parks will be receive strong political pressure to be privatized. Even if they are not privatized, pollution and a change in our climate will ultimately dwindle what natural wonder you will find there.

Believing this to be the ultimate future of Earth brings me to a conclusion that the environmentalism movement for the sake of nature will ultimately fail. The movement I would respect is a new breed of environmentalism focused on improving human efficiency and survivability. We shouldn't pollute, because 200 years from now that'll mean just more toxins in the air and water for us to have to filter out in order to survive. Nature will hardly be around some time in the far distant future, but I like to think we will be, so we should plan accordingly.
 
"Will we ever learn" implies that we don't already know. We do know, at least in the sense that what needs to be known is already known. Politics, ideology, corruption, selfishness, pandering, ignorance, stupidity, inability to deal with complex systems, etc. all contribute to what you see, which, by the way, is what you've got. Really, is this all so surprising in view of a US Supreme Court that has decreed that corporations are individuals? Or that, what amounts to bribery (i.e., paying into the campaign funds of politicians), is "defined" as "free speech" (paid speech is a more apt term)?
 
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Yep, giving a corporation any right outlined in the bill of rights is a farce. They should have 0 say in anything political. A government exists for the good of the people, not corporations that are soulless.
 
I don't think we will, untill the economic costs of using oil outweigh the economic benefits.

I sometimes wonder what was going through the mind of the guy that cut down the last palm tree on Easter Island. What we're heading for now is a global Easter island.
 
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Easter island is the perfect analogy
 
Razare said:
Population growth will slow at one point, but it'll still increase without a unified world governing body that has direct military control to impose population limits, which is very unlikely.
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The concern with a one world government is: who would run it?

My guess is the same people who run things now....and they haven't done a very good job of things.

I believe strongly in the moral strength of an informed collective operating without elites.

If people are free from individual self interest (or the combined interest of small elites) then they are able to decide what is best for all (which ultimately benefits the individual).
 
muir said:
The concern with a one world government is: who would run it?

My guess is the same people who run things now....and they haven't done a very good job of things.

I believe strongly in the moral strength of an informed collective operating without elites.

If people are free from individual self interest (or the combined interest of small elites) then they are able to decide what is best for all (which ultimately benefits the individual).
Click to expand...

I totally agree, muir. That's why I am on a lifelong intellectual quest to develop a new government structure that incorporates an informed collective operating without elites. A democracy as it should have been, not as what it inevitably evolves into.

The problem is I haven't got very far. I'm not sure there is an answer, but I like to believe there is.
 
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