Obesity: A Health crisis or a moral one? | Page 5 | INFJ Forum

Obesity: A Health crisis or a moral one?

So until we have a scientific consensus to prove otherwise, it is safe to assume that if a person cannot go up a few flights of stairs without getting winded that something is wrong.

Yes, of course something is wrong, regardless of their body size!

The behaviour is the problem, not the condition!

We should be promoting this equation;

Exercise and eat well = Health

rather than this one;

Exercise and eat well = Weight loss = Health

Weight loss becomes a limiting condition on the road to health so people give up.

If we sucked all the excess fat out of everyone, we would still have a health crisis because people care less about health and more about their weight, and why? Because we make such a huge deal out of it!
 
This is just a difference in attitude. I don't fail, I make mistakes and then I learn from them. I don't accept myself doing things wrong, even if I do they are a learning experience and I use it to get better.

Which is why I don't fail and I wont fail.

it
 
Prove someone can gain weight on 500 calories, that's not even enough to maintain a basic muscle structure and your lymph systems. I call BS.

A member of my immediate family is one of them. She went on a "cleansing" diet a couple of years back that consisted of only liquids (almost all water, with the calories coming entirely from apple juice). It was about a week long, if I remember correctly, and during that time she gained weight.

If someone is becoming narcoleptic because their body is going into a starvation routine (highly doubtful never heard anything about this) then they need medication. NOT extra calories.

You are correct. (Or rather, they need medication, after which they should need more calories, if the medication is working.) But calories are different from nutrition: extremely low-calorie diets can be detrimental to a person's health even if that person is overweight, and since those with severe hypothyroidism have extreme difficulty in losing weight, they tend to damage themselves with such diets over long periods.


All i am seeing in this post is a justification for why people are obese and I don't buy it, sorry.

I am not trying to justify the obesity of most or even a significant percentage of people. I am countering your absolutist claim that it is impossible to be obese and on good diet simultaneously. Technically you can call any obese person's diet "excessive" on the principle that se would lose weight if se stopped eating altogether, but approach is not "healthy."
 
Those IMO are not legitimate reasons for being obese. Well really there are no legitimate reasons outside of being chained down and force fed through a tube.

I don't know a single person who doesn't suffer from stress, depression, or anxiety, myself included. Except when that stuff gets to me I hit a hard workout session to release tension... other people hit a box of Twinkies.

I suppose you
 
yes, and it
 
A member of my immediate family is one of them. She went on a "cleansing" diet a couple of years back that consisted of only liquids (almost all water, with the calories coming entirely from apple juice). It was about a week long, if I remember correctly, and during that time she gained weight.



You are correct. (Or rather, they need medication, after which they should need more calories, if the medication is working.) But calories are different from nutrition: extremely low-calorie diets can be detrimental to a person's health even if that person is overweight, and since those with severe hypothyroidism have extreme difficulty in losing weight, they tend to damage themselves with such diets over long periods.




I am not trying to justify the obesity of most or even a significant percentage of people. I am countering your absolutist claim that it is impossible to be obese and on good diet simultaneously. Technically you can call any obese person's diet "excessive" on the principle that se would lose weight if se stopped eating altogether, but approach is not "healthy."

That's an unhealthy diet. Dieticians recommend the food triangle for a reason. The food triangle doesn't contain only liquids.
 
That's an unhealthy diet. Dieticians recommend the food triangle for a reason. The food triangle doesn't contain only liquids.

Yeah, thanks, Captain Obvious. :doh: It was a quick cleansing diet, not a long-term one. The point was just that it is possible to gain weight (mostly water weight I suppose, but weight nonetheless, indicating a lack of significant fat loss) on 500 calories or less.
 
The point was just that it is possible to gain weight ... on 500 calories or less.

No. That's bullshit. It's impossible to gain ANY weight on such a diet. I have the proof to back it up. This is completely beyond any doubt.
 
No. That's bullshit. It's impossible to gain ANY weight on such a diet. I have the proof to back it up. This is completely beyond any doubt.

Okay, let's see your proof. But I will have to remain unconvinced, since I watched it happen.
 
No. That's bullshit. It's impossible to gain ANY weight on such a diet. I have the proof to back it up. This is completely beyond any doubt.

500 calories sounds extraordinarily low, there must be many negative physical and psychological side effects from that kind of diet?

I still stand by the root of my argument, that the pursuit of health (for health's sake) is healthy and the pursuit of weightloss (for weightloss sake) is often unhealthy.
 
Noone can gain or lose any weight at all. Not through exercise, not through diet, and not through overeating.

Impossible. Anyone who says different will get curb stomped with shailogic.
 
Anyone who says different will get curb stomped with shailogic.
Does your curb stomp look anything like the curb stomp in American History X (if you've seen it...)
 
“The two major findings of this study were that there was a clear relation between the body-mass index of biologic parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that genetic influences are important determinants of body fatness; and that there was no relation between the body-mass index of adoptive parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that childhood family environment alone has little or no effect.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08iht-snfat.5614611.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

Can someone debunk this? as it seems to show that genes cause obesity, rather than over eating/bad parenting/whatever.

Is it possible that obesity isn't a choice (just like every other genetically inherited condition)?
 
Does your curb stomp look anything like the curb stomp in American History X (if you've seen it...)
Yes, it does.

Okay, let's see your proof. But I will have to remain unconvinced, since I watched it happen.
Sorry, I didn't see your post.

ShaiLogic said:
Weight:
The weight of an object is the magnitude, W, of the force that must be applied to an object in order to support it (i.e. hold it at rest) in a gravitational field. The weight of an object equals the magnitude of the gravitational force acting on the object, less the effect of its buoyancy in any fluid in which it might be immersed. Near the surface of the Earth, the acceleration due to gravity is approximately constant.


Mass:
Mass is the quantity of inertia possessed by an object or the proportion between force and acceleration referred to in Newton's Second Law of Motion.

In most common instances, mass is determined by weighing the object and using the force of gravity to calculate the value automatically - which is why you can get on a scale and have read your mass.

The primary instrument used to measure mass is the scale or balance scale. In the SI (system of units), mass is measured in kilograms, kg. Many other units of mass are also employed, such as:
gram: 1 g = 0.001 kg (1000 g = 1 kg)
tonne: 1 tonne = 1000 kg
MeV/c2 (Typically used to specify the mass of subatomic particles. See mass-energy equivalence)

Bite the curb bitch.
 
Weight is an unnessary part of the equation here, those issues are concerning regardless of how fat the individuals are! If everyone was skinny but with clogged arteries would the health issue suddenly disappear? Weight doesn't even need to be considered.

Weight does need to be considered. Certain safety standards have to be met based on how much weight something can support (an elevator for example, or a ladder). Weight can also play a role in how much force is generated if someone falls. If that someone has osteoperosis and falls down and breaks their hip (note: they fall down for a reason other than the hip breaking pre-fall), then weight may play a very important role in how the bone fractures, the extent of the damage, etc.

While I understand that there is an emotional and very personal side to the issue of obesity, there are some facts that cannot be overlooked and talked about because the topic is a sensitive one. For example: hospitals having to buy open MRI's because patients cannot fit into closed machines (and other medical equipment). Logistics is also important when dealing with fulfilling the needs of all patients.

This is yet to be proved, we don't have the knowledge to even try and understand the size of the genetic, social and economic mountains these people have to climb, starvation is a proven weightloss treatment, but everyone's will has a breaking point. You can never know untill you're in their shoes how high their mountain is to climb. You can make all the best choices and be completely responsible and live a happy lide and still be obese.

Unhealthy living is the problem, and people of everysize can live unhealthy lives. By focusing on Obesity we just make scapegoats, and excuse the behaviour of the unhealthy people of all the other sizes.

We have to work with knowledge that is available to us (and follow appropriate guidelines). Yes, obesity is a great challenge to overcome. But so are a great number of other health related issues (ex. cancer, diabetes, drug addictions, etc.) There are ways to lose weight in a healthy manner (WeightWatchers comes to mind), and there are other options as well.

But I will agree and disagree with you: I think that a majority of people are obese because of poor lifestyle choices, but being obese does not mean that one cannot live a happy life.

Unhealthy habits and eating are the root of a growing health problem in the developing world. And yes, people of any size can be unhealthy. But I don't think that the obese are scapegoats by any means.

I am somewhat hesitant to say this, but I dislike the idea of 'victim' being brought into the obesity issue. I have noticed more and more that a 'victim mentality' is brought into issues where it does not belong. In my own perceptions of it, if someone says something to the contrary to the 'victim' side of the issue then that person is emotionally judged by both the 'victim' side and society at large. Thus, the person who brings up a contrary opinion risks either passively agreement with what is said, or active measures against their voiced opinion. Please note that I am not saying that you (or any other user) is doing this. What I am saying is that I do not wish to see this thread degenerate because of this scenario taking place. I think that the issue of obesity (and it's discussion) deserves better than that.

People of all sizes can eat too much, just because some have fast metabolisms doesn't mean they aren't still abusing their organs internally.

You are quite right: people can still abuse their organs even if they have a fast metabolism. They can also abuse their organs through a number of other things (ex. too much exercise too fast, alcohol, caffeine, drugs, etc.) In my own personal beliefs, I am against putting strain or abuse on the body (or organs).

In closing, I am not passing judgment on the obese population, their lifestyle, or trying to malign them in any way. I am well aware of the challenges that they face to losing weight in a healthy manner, and I am sympathetic to the plight that they face. I honestly don't care what a person's body size is as long as they are healthy. But in my own mind, I don't associate obesity with good health.
 
I would like to know, on the moral aspect of this debate, how is it anybody's business if someone's overweight or obese?
 
That is all absurd because:
a - overweight people pay taxes too, so they are entitled

b - the idea that other people's health concern you because you pay taxes and you'd like to have the right to tell them how to live their lives borders on fascism

c- next thing you'll do is try to tell people not to smoke, not to drink, not to eat unhealthy, not to rollerblade or sky or run because you're concerned about your tax money?

d- so if I don't want medical care paid to people whose habits I don't agree with, can I just ask them not to treat anyone whom I find an asshole?

e- so what if you don't like to see people unhealthy? democracy isn't about what you like, it's about personal freedom.

f- I know a lot of americans have a problem with this concept, but free health care has nothing to do with "socialist"? I have no idea what you said "socialist medicine"? Most countries that have govermental health care are democratic.

Pffft.
 
Last edited: