Love as the essence of faith? | INFJ Forum

Love as the essence of faith?

Altruistic Muse

Altruistic Muse

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Apr 6, 2009
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[youtube]POBKL0zHZyc[/youtube]


Williams seems to be asserting here that if you can see beauty and feel love, then you are capable of having faith. He also seems to be saying that love is directly from God, and an atheists love of the universe suggests this... I love this, but I think it may be controversial. What do you guys think?
 
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I can't watch it.


Scripture does explicitly say that whoever loves has seen the Father, as God is Love. It is also not possible to love God if you hate anyone.
 
Yes, but not all love is really Love. Jesus made very clear that He was the only path to God. If you don't know Christ, you don't know God.
 
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Altruistic Muse said:
[youtube]POBKL0zHZyc[/youtube]


Williams seems to be asserting here that if you can see beauty and feel love, then you are capable of having faith. He also seems to be saying that love is directly from God, and an atheists love of the universe suggests this... I love this, but I think it may be controversial. What do you guys think?
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it's a stretch. love is likely a remnant of our strongly socially interdependent past, nothing more
 
No, I'm not seeing it.

I can see interactions between love and faith, but I think faith can be hate-driven too.
 
KazeCraven said:
No, I'm not seeing it.

I can see interactions between love and faith, but I think faith can be hate-driven too.
Click to expand...

i think faith can be motivated by any strong emotion
 
^^Hmmm, I'm having difficulty coming up with a rage-driven faith, but I am inclined to agree with you.
 
KazeCraven said:
Hmmm, I'm having difficulty coming up with a rage-driven faith, but I am inclined to agree with you.
Click to expand...

cause i'm awesome? its okay, you dont need a reason beyond that xD
 
I can see the connection. I'm not yet as well versed in the scriptures as I would like to be however ... to confirm my "feeling". Still working on it though :)
 
April said:
cause i'm awesome? its okay, you dont need a reason beyond that xD
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LOL, no.

I meant intuitively it seems like any emotion would lead to faith. The fact that you are awesome is great, but it's beside the point.

Upon closer inspection though, I'd argue that any strong emotion may stem from faith, but not the other way around. Faith seems more like hope or trust, depending on the type of faith.
 
April said:
love is likely a remnant of our strongly socially interdependent past, nothing more
Click to expand...

Damn, then we should just all move to Jonestown and drink the kool-aid ASAP. For me, love is the tangible proof that life is more than a purely rational endeavor. Love is ****ing MAGIC, and I mean that less figuratively than you probably think!

What makes you think our society is shedding love like an old snake skin?

***EDIT did you by chance mean faith instead of love?***
 
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Altruistic Muse said:
Williams seems to be asserting here that if you can see beauty and feel love, then you are capable of having faith. He also seems to be saying that love is directly from God, and an atheists love of the universe suggests this... I love this, but I think it may be controversial. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Not to go out on any limbs here or something, but scripturally, faith is driven by hope, and hope, hope is driven by love.


So.... just kind pointing that one out.
 
Gloaming said:
Damn, then we should just all move to Jonestown and drink the kool-aid ASAP. For me, love is the tangible proof that life is more than a purely rational endeavor. Love is ****ing MAGIC, and I mean that less figuratively than you probably think!

What makes you think our society is shedding love like an old snake skin?

***EDIT did you by chance mean faith instead of love?***
Click to expand...

I agree that love is magic (not the whole "should drink the kool aid thing"). However I feel compelled to add that there is nothing wrong with life being rational (just saying it, probably has something to do with Te).

For me, faith is believing despite. Despite knowing. Despite having a rational explanation. Just despite. Coming to this conclusion required me to question, question, question and then accept that my understanding of faith was beyond logic and lay inside my spirit. I have faith in many things and it all comes down to whether or not I can set aside my doubts and believe
 
KazeCraven said:
^^Hmmm, I'm having difficulty coming up with a rage-driven faith, but I am inclined to agree with you.
Click to expand...

Oh, it's possible: Klu Klux Klan, extremists in political parties...etc. Not everything they believe is true, but they take it on faith that it is because they refuse to acknowledge truth.
 
Spiritually speaking I thought we only receive faith through God's grace. So if faith is love, then we love by the grace of God. Sounds about right to me. God is love. That's just what I think : )
 
No wonder love sickens me.
 
Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Here's how I view faith. You can have faith that the sun exists, because you hope that it does. You have an assurance that it will, and you're convinced the sun exists at 12 noon on Saturday and it will continue to exist tomorrow. You don't live in constant fear that the sun will explode in the next five minutes, or will even explode in our lifetime. You know it could be a possibility because of scientific discourse, but you're not hiding under a rock expecting it to happen right away.

In other words, the actual emotion of faith is not dependent on God, but it is dependent on conviction, assurances, and hope. Those things can include God (and from a Godly perspective, God *is* included in all of it) but even an atheist has faith if he believes in the natural laws of the universe.

A better question might be: Why does one have faith? What purpose does faith serve?
 
arbygil said:
Why does one have faith? What purpose does faith serve?
Click to expand...

Because we are taught what to believe.
If you were born in a muslim environment, you'd believe in Allah.

And it has multiple purposes:
On individual level, it can give you hope and can give your life meaning.
Collectively speaking, it can justify the actions of a government or a large group of people.
 
The Jester said:
Because we are taught what to believe.
If you were born in a muslim environment, you'd believe in Allah.

And it has multiple purposes:
On individual level, it can give you hope and can give your life meaning.
Collectively speaking, it can justify the actions of a government or a large group of people.
Click to expand...

I did mean beyond spiritually (i.e., not a religious figure, per se). But think about it: Why have faith in anything? Why hope? Why give your life meaning? Should it justify our actions? Should people use faith to justify their actions?

(Going the philosophical route, here)
 
The Jester said:
Because we are taught what to believe.
If you were born in a muslim environment, you'd believe in Allah.

And it has multiple purposes:
On individual level, it can give you hope and can give your life meaning.
Collectively speaking, it can justify the actions of a government or a large group of people.
Click to expand...

I disagree, if people only believed what they were taught then religion would never exist in the first place. Not to mention the fact the their are Christians in Islamic environments and converts from every wake wand walk of life.
 
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