INFJs and ISTJs

[Gaze]

My husband is an ISTJ and I really appreciated reading everyone's experiences with this type. We are currently separated, but living in the same house, and over time I've reached the same conclusions some of you have mentioned in your own ISTJ relationships: A stable, but not satisfying match. I was initially drawn to my husband's consistency, support and stability, as we both favor purposeful, long-term relationships. He's an all around "good guy", great leader, honors his word, would give you the shirt off his back, and is highly intelligent and focused. I tend to vacillate among choices and wrestle with ethical or principle concerns, so his no-fuss attitude soothed and centered me. Plus, I admired his commitment. He steadfastly accomplished any task before him, and it only helped that he loves romantic movies, music (a paradox to his personality) and is multilingual, sexy and a great kisser. Also, growing up in an unstable home, I couldn't count on my own family but I could count on him. He was my rock. He's also very aesthetically conscious, and unlike the stereotypical man, is very clean, organized, always smells good, is classy and a great cook! What woman wouldn't love that?

Despite the pluses, we had major problems that I couldn't go on smoothing over. Of course, he had his issues with me, such as how messy, "unrealistic", and optimistic I tend to be, but in general, he would have been content to continue with the relationship as it was. For me, his lack of affection, expression, communication, appreciation, his passive-aggressive attitude, pessimism, and materialism really bothered me. I craved active participation in creating a life together, enthusiasm, romance, transparency with our personal matters (ex. finances), and variety! He didn't value my passion for travel and experiencing new environments. Though he offered obligatory support, he much preferred I stay put and tend to him and the house (and later, the kids, him and the house). He didn't understand my need for personal and relationship growth; he wanted no more than a loyal wife, dedicated mother, and an upstanding woman who would play her part. In fact, when I asked him why he loved me, he said "Because you're a good woman." I was always baffled and saddened by this response until I understood its significance years later. In essence, as renowned type researcher and psychologist Dr. Keirsey states: ISTJ Guardians want a "helper mate" not a soul mate, like the INFJ Idealist.

Indeed, he was more interested in me being a domestic goddess and focusing on practical matters such as holding a stable job, earning a good income, raising respectful children, and honoring him as head of household. But was easily frustrated by my "Follow Your Bliss" motto of life. He didn't understand why I have to be happy in everything I do. "Work is work" he says, not "a purposeful and engaging contribution" in the world, as I believe. Because of this and many other similar "utility vs. possibility" (SJ vs. NF) situations, I suffered from loneliness and alienation. I also felt disrespected when trying to have a conversation with him about the days goings-ons, myself or our relationship. He'd just sit staring and typing away at his computer-not once acknowledging my presence-and was adept at bottling his emotions, often to the point of austerity or sometimes a blowout of rage. It was maddening. Ironically, he's great with people and very adaptable to any social situation. My judgmental family loves him and those who don't know the "flipside" of his type think he's the kindest person ever.

Forgive me for writing a book, but I hope this post helps clarify matters with other INFJ/ISTJ matches. Though type is just a component of one's overall makeup, it powerfully and accurately explains (80%+) how each views the world and functions within it; and in relationships, how we interact with each other. We are all shaped by our experiences, beliefs, culture etc. and no one relationship is indubitably well- or ill-suited based on type alone. However, in the case of the ISTJ match, I find that the lack of depth/communication, affection and growth/variety made my relationship stable and comfortable, but lacking in the meaningful, in fact incorporeal, connection I need. For him, the novelty-seeking, affirmation-needing, and purpose-craving nature of my INFJ type was exhausting, frustrating (possibly offensive?), and baffling to him. We had a thoughtful discussion today (maybe 2 in nearly 8 years hehe) and he said he still loves me, but that we just desire a different connection. I couldn't have said it better myself, and I love him for the insight.

Thanks for sharing Siela. This is really helpful.

 

[Siela25]

My first reply, thanks! I enjoyed contributing.

 

[ENTroP]

My mom is INFJ and dad is ISTJ... Interesting.

 

[Norton]

ISTJ's are completely alien to me, yet they have some very admirable qualities worth emulating. For example, I wish I could finish projects and other tasks like ISTJ's and I wish I could be organized like they are. They exemplify follow-through and dependability.

 

[shannishannon]

My husband is an ISTJ and I really appreciated reading everyone's experiences with this type. We are currently separated, but living in the same house, and over time I've reached the same conclusions some of you have mentioned in your own ISTJ relationships: A stable, but not satisfying match. I was initially drawn to my husband's consistency, support and stability, as we both favor purposeful, long-term relationships. He's an all around "good guy", great leader, honors his word, would give you the shirt off his back, and is highly intelligent and focused. I tend to vacillate among choices and wrestle with ethical or principle concerns, so his no-fuss attitude soothed and centered me. Plus, I admired his commitment. He steadfastly accomplished any task before him, and it only helped that he loves romantic movies, music (a paradox to his personality) and is multilingual, sexy and a great kisser. Also, growing up in an unstable home, I couldn't count on my own family but I could count on him. He was my rock. He's also very aesthetically conscious, and unlike the stereotypical man, is very clean, organized, always smells good, is classy and a great cook! What woman wouldn't love that?

Despite the pluses, we had major problems that I couldn't go on smoothing over. Of course, he had his issues with me, such as how messy, "unrealistic", and optimistic I tend to be, but in general, he would have been content to continue with the relationship as it was. For me, his lack of affection, expression, communication, appreciation, his passive-aggressive attitude, pessimism, and materialism really bothered me. I craved active participation in creating a life together, enthusiasm, romance, transparency with our personal matters (ex. finances), and variety! He didn't value my passion for travel and experiencing new environments. Though he offered obligatory support, he much preferred I stay put and tend to him and the house (and later, the kids, him and the house). He didn't understand my need for personal and relationship growth; he wanted no more than a loyal wife, dedicated mother, and an upstanding woman who would play her part. In fact, when I asked him why he loved me, he said "Because you're a good woman." I was always baffled and saddened by this response until I understood its significance years later. In essence, as renowned type researcher and psychologist Dr. Keirsey states: ISTJ Guardians want a "helper mate" not a soul mate, like the INFJ Idealist.

Indeed, he was more interested in me being a domestic goddess and focusing on practical matters such as holding a stable job, earning a good income, raising respectful children, and honoring him as head of household. But was easily frustrated by my "Follow Your Bliss" motto of life. He didn't understand why I have to be happy in everything I do. "Work is work" he says, not "a purposeful and engaging contribution" in the world, as I believe. Because of this and many other similar "utility vs. possibility" (SJ vs. NF) situations, I suffered from loneliness and alienation. I also felt disrespected when trying to have a conversation with him about the days goings-ons, myself or our relationship. He'd just sit staring and typing away at his computer-not once acknowledging my presence-and was adept at bottling his emotions, often to the point of austerity or sometimes a blowout of rage. It was maddening. Ironically, he's great with people and very adaptable to any social situation. My judgmental family loves him and those who don't know the "flipside" of his type think he's the kindest person ever.

Forgive me for writing a book, but I hope this post helps clarify matters with other INFJ/ISTJ matches. Though type is just a component of one's overall makeup, it powerfully and accurately explains (80%+) how each views the world and functions within it; and in relationships, how we interact with each other. We are all shaped by our experiences, beliefs, culture etc. and no one relationship is indubitably well- or ill-suited based on type alone. However, in the case of the ISTJ match, I find that the lack of depth/communication, affection and growth/variety made my relationship stable and comfortable, but lacking in the meaningful, in fact incorporeal, connection I need. For him, the novelty-seeking, affirmation-needing, and purpose-craving nature of my INFJ type was exhausting, frustrating (possibly offensive?), and baffling to him. We had a thoughtful discussion today (maybe 2 in nearly 8 years hehe) and he said he still loves me, but that we just desire a different connection. I couldn't have said it better myself, and I love him for the insight.

Welcome to our forum, Siela-what a beautiful post. You just described my first marriage. I was looking for a soul mate too-he was looking for a helpmate. I blamed myself for the marriage breakup for many years later. Hearing an ISTJ say "we just desire a different connection" would be very healing.

 

[dneecey]

My husband is an ISTJ and I really appreciated reading everyone's experiences with this type. We are currently separated, but living in the same house, and over time I've reached the same conclusions some of you have mentioned in your own ISTJ relationships: A stable, but not satisfying match. I was initially drawn to my husband's consistency, support and stability, as we both favor purposeful, long-term relationships. He's an all around "good guy", great leader, honors his word, would give you the shirt off his back, and is highly intelligent and focused. I tend to vacillate among choices and wrestle with ethical or principle concerns, so his no-fuss attitude soothed and centered me. Plus, I admired his commitment. He steadfastly accomplished any task before him, and it only helped that he loves romantic movies, music (a paradox to his personality) and is multilingual, sexy and a great kisser. Also, growing up in an unstable home, I couldn't count on my own family but I could count on him. He was my rock. He's also very aesthetically conscious, and unlike the stereotypical man, is very clean, organized, always smells good, is classy and a great cook! What woman wouldn't love that?

Despite the pluses, we had major problems that I couldn't go on smoothing over. Of course, he had his issues with me, such as how messy, "unrealistic", and optimistic I tend to be, but in general, he would have been content to continue with the relationship as it was. For me, his lack of affection, expression, communication, appreciation, his passive-aggressive attitude, pessimism, and materialism really bothered me. I craved active participation in creating a life together, enthusiasm, romance, transparency with our personal matters (ex. finances), and variety! He didn't value my passion for travel and experiencing new environments. Though he offered obligatory support, he much preferred I stay put and tend to him and the house (and later, the kids, him and the house). He didn't understand my need for personal and relationship growth; he wanted no more than a loyal wife, dedicated mother, and an upstanding woman who would play her part. In fact, when I asked him why he loved me, he said "Because you're a good woman." I was always baffled and saddened by this response until I understood its significance years later. In essence, as renowned type researcher and psychologist Dr. Keirsey states: ISTJ Guardians want a "helper mate" not a soul mate, like the INFJ Idealist.

Indeed, he was more interested in me being a domestic goddess and focusing on practical matters such as holding a stable job, earning a good income, raising respectful children, and honoring him as head of household. But was easily frustrated by my "Follow Your Bliss" motto of life. He didn't understand why I have to be happy in everything I do. "Work is work" he says, not "a purposeful and engaging contribution" in the world, as I believe. Because of this and many other similar "utility vs. possibility" (SJ vs. NF) situations, I suffered from loneliness and alienation. I also felt disrespected when trying to have a conversation with him about the days goings-ons, myself or our relationship. He'd just sit staring and typing away at his computer-not once acknowledging my presence-and was adept at bottling his emotions, often to the point of austerity or sometimes a blowout of rage. It was maddening. Ironically, he's great with people and very adaptable to any social situation. My judgmental family loves him and those who don't know the "flipside" of his type think he's the kindest person ever.

Forgive me for writing a book, but I hope this post helps clarify matters with other INFJ/ISTJ matches. Though type is just a component of one's overall makeup, it powerfully and accurately explains (80%+) how each views the world and functions within it; and in relationships, how we interact with each other. We are all shaped by our experiences, beliefs, culture etc. and no one relationship is indubitably well- or ill-suited based on type alone. However, in the case of the ISTJ match, I find that the lack of depth/communication, affection and growth/variety made my relationship stable and comfortable, but lacking in the meaningful, in fact incorporeal, connection I need. For him, the novelty-seeking, affirmation-needing, and purpose-craving nature of my INFJ type was exhausting, frustrating (possibly offensive?), and baffling to him. We had a thoughtful discussion today (maybe 2 in nearly 8 years hehe) and he said he still loves me, but that we just desire a different connection. I couldn't have said it better myself, and I love him for the insight.

Wow! Thank you for sharing this. I feel like I could have written it myself, because it is almost exactly what I am going through with my husband.. Wow..

 

[chameleon]

Siela,

Thank you so much for posting about your relationship with your separated husband. I actually cut your words out and emailed it to my ISTJ husband because I can relate to almost all of what you said and I think his experience of me is very similar to how you described how your husband reacts to you.

This is my first post as I just found these forums yesterday and deliberately looked to see if other INFJ's were married to ISTJ's to see if they have the problems I do.

My husband and I have been arguing - or rather I have been arguing with him (which has just gotten more and more explosive over the years - don't get an INFJ heated up :msith:) about the same things for 10 years. Over the last three years we've had two kids which has put additional pressures on our relationship. That, amongst other events made us decide to go to couple's therapy to try to "divorce proof" our marriage. Being in therapy has made me realize even more keenly how alone this relationship sometimes makes me feel... and how far it is from the relationship I want. But at the same time, my ISTJ is applying that ISTJ work ethic in trying to "be there" more fully for me and be more in touch with his emotions (instead of burying them which might be something my particular ISTJ does or perhaps an ISTJ trait) and communicating them.

Siela, I wanted to ask you about this -

However, in the case of the ISTJ match, I find that the lack of depth/communication, affection and growth/variety made my relationship stable and comfortable, but lacking in the meaningful, in fact incorporeal, connection I need. For him, the novelty-seeking, affirmation-needing, and purpose-craving nature of my INFJ type was exhausting, frustrating (possibly offensive?), and baffling to him."

That incorporeal connection, do you think it can last in a long term relationship? If I understand what you mean by this, I've had this in the past but in and of itself it doesn't lend to stable relationships. I know, I have very idealistic views about wanting a soulmate relationship and I actually wonder if it makes us (INFJs) very difficult partners. Who could live up to our standards unless they are an NF themselves. And even with that pairing, I see potential for problems because how exhausting would that be ?

 

[enfp can be shy]

..

I cried when I read this. Thanks for writing so well. I can confirm many things, because ENFPs can exist as ISTJs too.

 

[the]

Some of you guys are real buttholes. Do you know that?

 

[christmas]

ISTJs...

I dated one. I honestly think no one on earth can blindside me quite like an ISTJ. He introduced me as his girlfriend. It was news to me.

I also never heard from him again after a really romantic dinner. He's not dead. I made sure of that with my elite stalker skills.

 

[Matariki]

I had an ISTJ work colleague once.

She was obsessed with time. I remember her always staring up at clock before she went home, she would not leave until the clock struck 6pm even if she had nothing to do.
She thought I was weird and I thought she was grumpy.
Otherwise besides that we got along on working terms.

 

[Siela25]

Welcome to our forum, Siela-what a beautiful post. You just described my first marriage. I was looking for a soul mate too-he was looking for a helpmate. I blamed myself for the marriage breakup for many years later. Hearing an ISTJ say "we just desire a different connection" would be very healing.

Omg!!! I forgot to respond to this thread. So sorry guys. I know it's years later, and I'm not sure where I disappeared to, but thank you for your thoughtful, heartfelt replies and here are my responses:​

ShanniShannon- Yes, it was very healing for him to confirm that we desire different connections. I crave closure, in general, so I'm grateful for that moment.

Wow! Thank you for sharing this. I feel like I could have written it myself, because it is almost exactly what I am going through with my husband.. Wow..

Dneecey- No problem! I'm so glad you could relate, and it's great to share my experiences and have them be useful to others. It's been 2 years since this post, and we're still friends. Not best friends that stay up all hours of the night chatting on the phone, but a friendly and pleasant friendship. Anything I need, I just ask and he's right there. He moved out and to another state (a year after I wrote my original post) and so we're finally living separate lives- officially. It's kind of strange to remember that we were once in a relationship together, married even! Because now, we're so civil with each other- not cold but not cozy. How are you and your husband coming along?

That incorporeal connection, do you think it can last in a long term relationship? If I understand what you mean by this, I've had this in the past but in and of itself it doesn't lend to stable relationships. I know, I have very idealistic views about wanting a soulmate relationship and I actually wonder if it makes us (INFJs) very difficult partners. Who could live up to our standards unless they are an NF themselves. And even with that pairing, I see potential for problems because how exhausting would that be ?

Chameleon- This is a great question. And the short answer is: We are who we are & we need what we need. Moreso, we deserve to be fulfilled in our relationships. And for INFJs, an incorporeal connection is essential to our relationship fulfillment. This is only one component of a whole array of factors (as in any relationship), but it's an essential component. And I do believe incorporeal connections exist in long-term connections. To me, it's a connection likened to a spiritual one. There are physical connections based on appearance, resources, instinct, sex. There are emotional connections based on bonding, camaraderie, romance. Mental connections are based on intellect, education, and knowledge. And spiritual connections are based upon awareness, consciousness, intuition, inner vision, and knowing/insight (knowing that's not rational/Mental, bodily sensing/ Physical, or feeling discernment/Emotional).

It's a sense of natural understanding of the greater truths and phenomenon of life and within a person. For us, there's no better romance than with someone who seeks to know and experience us truly and deeply- on all levels. So, yes, that's a tall order for a relationship, but oh well. It's who we are! And for those who would make our ideal mates, it's simply who THEY are. By refusing to believe in, seek out, and allow the spiritual connection we yearn for in our relationships, we deprive those who want to fulfill that desire with us...together.

Plus, an incorporeal connection, though an abstract concept, is very practical. Take the intangible concept of "inner vision". For an INFJ, we want a mate who can envision our futures together. We want to share our excitement and passion for possibilities with our lover. We want our partner to engage in talking about, dreaming about, planning about, and implementing the concepts and details of realizing our relationship vision. This is highly satisfying for an INFJ, and it's mostly an abstract, incorporeal experience (the dreaming, envisioning, talking about: all non-concrete but essential aspects in a fulfilling relationship for INFJs). With my ISTJ ex, he had different needs. He essentially put forth his expectations and desires in the beginning of our relationship and expected us both to uphold these timeless expectations. But for an INFJ, we need to constantly create, shape, and realize new possibilities with our mate. Imagine how in sync you must be to move in the same direction (maybe even if taking different paths) to fulfill relationship desires with your mate when there are No rules. And imagine how fun! This is what a totally real and possible incorporeal bond offers. Now, you could say the above represents communication, not anything incorporeal, but all types communicate. The question is: From what perspective?? Also, for me 'incorporeal' includes compatible ideals, aspirations and spirituality. So of course, I want my partner to relish in, respect, and challenge me to realize my potential in all these areas in life & our relationship.

Finally, the question of being difficult or of "asking too much" is a self-worth matter not a personality type conflict. If you don't believe you can have what fulfills you, you won't ever get it. You'll spend your whole life "making due" and who wants to live like that? I decided, after many years of toe-dipping, to throw myself into an ocean of uncertainties, determined to flow towards my true fulfillment. I continue on this journey, but oh boy, it's worth it. For the first time in my life, I've had a taste of the incoporeal, spiritually-connected relationship I've always wanted. And let me tell you, it's BEYOND WORDS and it does exist. There ARE people who want the same deep, out-of-this-world connection that you do. And when you find each other, it's like BAM!!! Where have you been all my life??? <3 <3 <3 So keep the faith!!!

I cried when I read this. Thanks for writing so well. I can confirm many things, because ENFPs can exist as ISTJs too.

And I got all misty-eyed reading your reply. Thank you for such lovely words. It's difficult to pour one's whole relationship story onto a page, but it's worth it when someone relates to and is moved by the experience.


Love you guys!!!

 

[Siela25]

ISTJs are strange in some ways that they show they want to be your friend.

Highly introverted INFJs possess a strong Ti, they can easily grasp systems, and thusly strive to do so.

ISTJs on the other hand sometimes possess a strong Fi. Just as one can draw the Ti out of an INFJ, so it is possible to draw the Fi out of an ITJ type. And as such they can be fascinating. The Fi function when dissected is an enigma and as such holds a type of fascination for the introverted thinking function.

'Hidden yet unknown depth of feeling' is something that many strive to unlock and understand. Yet it is only in the grasp of the trusted few. INFJs lend easily to this role.

Omg, so true. ISTJs attract me like magnets! because their Fi is like a gem to be unearthed. And once you experience an ISTJ's love, it's so intense when compared with how distant and objectively impersonal they can be. It feels like falling into a vat of warm gooey fudge! Yummmm!

 

[dneecey]

​

Dneecey- No problem! I'm so glad you could relate, and it's great to share my experiences and have them be useful to others. It's been 2 years since this post, and we're still friends. Not best friends that stay up all hours of the night chatting on the phone, but a friendly and pleasant friendship. Anything I need, I just ask and he's right there. He moved out and to another state (a year after I wrote my original post) and so we're finally living separate lives- officially. It's kind of strange to remember that we were once in a relationship together, married even! Because now, we're so civil with each other- not cold but not cozy. How are you and your husband coming along?

We aren't together any more. It's been two years. We have a similar relationship to the one that you mentioned with your ex. We are more open to one another because we have two amazing children together, but we aren't cozy. We're friends. And that's something. I have to say that I have wondered about you. I hope you post more soon. <3

 

[Siela25]

We aren't together any more. It's been two years. We have a similar relationship to the one that you mentioned with your ex. We are more open to one another because we have two amazing children together, but we aren't cozy. We're friends. And that's something. I have to say that I have wondered about you. I hope you post more soon. <3

Hi Dneecey, so glad you're still active on the boards!! Wow, so you guys aren't together but are friends. I'm sure you're proud of your friendship, as am I with my ex. Not all people in their relationships- compatible MBTI or not- can say the same. So yea, I intend to be on here and post a lot more. When I first posted, I was a complete newbie and hadn't found my way around yet. But reading these old posts brings up lots of memories, really good ones. Thank you for thinking of me too. Perhaps your thoughts lured me back to my INFJ tribe. Big hugs!!! and see you on the boards .

 

[Jill Hives]

I find myself drawn to them (ISTJs) like a black hole, but fear them/am intimidated by them.

 

[Siela25]

I find myself drawn to them (ISTJs) like a black hole, but fear them/am intimidated by them.

Yea, I can understand that too. A guy I'm "talking" to now is an ISTJ and I'm not ruling him out because we have so much fun, and there are other factors that shape his personality that make him slightly more 'colorful' than the typical ISTJ. But he's definitely intimidating. My sister when she met him said "I don't like you. You're a smarta$$". I laughed because that's part of what I like most about him. He's interesting to figure out too. Yet, it is difficult not to be drawn in by their intriguing qualities...intriguing because they're so different from our own. His laser sharp focus and perseverance is so admirable. I think we're drawn to them because they possess qualities we wish to improve in ourselves, i.e., mastery, focus, self-assuredness (even if they're deeply insecure, they easily project an aura of confidence).

 

[knight in battle]

(even if they're deeply insecure, they easily project an aura of confidence).

Exactly. They are us.
We have met the enemy.

 

[QuietlyBrilliant]

One of my best friends is an ISTJ and I actually get on better with her than any of my other friends. I find we have a mutual understanding of each other and she is hilarious. Shes also a good person, and is trustworthy. Great person. However, we clash. ALOT, and argue frequently but always resolve it.

 

[Siela25]

One of my best friends is an ISTJ and I actually get on better with her than any of my other friends. I find we have a mutual understanding of each other and she is hilarious. Shes also a good person, and is trustworthy. Great person. However, we clash. ALOT, and argue frequently but always resolve it.

I can relate to this. The guy is hilarious too, very solid as a person- committed, dedicated, perserverant. I don't know that we have a mutual understanding of each other, this must be nice! We're always clashing, but it's some kind of magnetic, complimentary pull. We also argue or disagree a lot, but he wins me over each time because he's relentless with resolving the issue, forces me to express what's bothering me & doesn't avoid conflict like I do- I always fear hurting someone's feelings, but he doesn't have this concern. It's funny how deeply MBTI illustrates and reveals a person's approach to life.