INFJ vs INTJ - Intelligence

[Tactical Panda]

No, this isn't the part where I tell you INTJs are worth recognizing, respecting, appreciating or bestowing an honorary place of authority. So lets just move onto business.

In a simple sense:
The INTJ type possesses the functions Ni, Te, Fi and inferior Se as the "main" four functions.
The INFJ type possesses the functions Ni, Fe, Ti and inferior Se as the "main" four functions.

1.) When it comes to emotional intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly Ni and Fi compared to Ni and Fe? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

2.) When it comes to social intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly of... erm... all of the functions, I suppose? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

3.) When it comes to rational intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly Ni and Ti compared to Ni and Te? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

4.) When it comes to practical intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions? Maybe cooking, fixing stuff, playing sport and getting the day to day or normal part of life jobs done well?

I'd be interested in your perspectives and thoughts.
You guys seem thoughtful, insightful and reliable enough.
Plus the issue is sort of interesting.

PS. If you have only had experience with the INFJ side of the equation, still feel free to share. It is still good stuff.
Even if you ignore the questions or just use them as guides, as long as generally has to do anything involved with INTJs or INFJs and intelligence it is relevant.

 

[Trifoilum]

1.) When it comes to emotional intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly Ni and Fi compared to Ni and Fe? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

Ni ensures that what they will see is going to be deep and nuanced-- no matter right or wrong.
But Fi focuses more to what certain (chain) of events is doing to them-- while Fe focuses more to what certain (chain) of events is doing to the environment at large-- which may or may not include them.
I would enjoy the larger perspective; seeing the strings; how people act and react, their intentions and implications; what they hid as much as what they shown; what they know and use, what they don't know; etc.

The difficulties is separating Ti (which is paired with Fe) and Fi. What is 'right' for me with what is 'good' for me. Sometimes they are different.

2.) When it comes to social intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly of... erm... all of the functions, I suppose? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

TeFi are more insensitive, but FeTi can be too sensitive.
TeFi are more ruthless, but FeTi can be duplicitous.
One of the challenge I have faced in relation to the difference was related to-- well, most of the times when considering solution I cannot help but think of-- the effects. How it would made me seen as, will they be angry (and block me in the future?)
TeFi users, the more I see it, feel less to no attention to those-- sort of like bulldozing them all. For better or worse.

3.) When it comes to rational intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly Ni and Ti compared to Ni and Te? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

Ni Ti dissects more, while Ni Te expands more.
The way I see it, left alone NiTi will only dig deeper on the subjects they are interested into; and NiTe will only spread wider and wider-- with little to no....mmm, not exactly 'validity', but external and internal validity. They may -get- some amount of external validity, but the detachment..

4.) When it comes to practical intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions? Maybe cooking, fixing stuff, playing sport and getting the day to day or normal part of life jobs done well?

Noooooooooo idea. :|

 

[Billy]

My experience is that INFJs don't fit into the INFJ group nor INTJs into the INTJ group of cognitive functions. That MBTI is completely subjective and where 1 person sees Te another sees Fe.

 

[Nitesteamer]

Not sure that I can compare my functions to functions like Te or Fi, so I will just talk about what I have noticed:



In times of solitude, it seems that my Ni And Ti are allowed to mingle in such a way that it is interesting and fun to watch as they automatically operate. I think that the Fe is then allowed to idle, unless there is a pressing issue regarding people going on (positive or negative).

Fe allows me to exercise some extroversion because it demands some sense of community of souls. It works pretty well with brief day-to-day interactions or with deeper discussions, but is often undercover when I am in a public place but don't see the need to interact. There are times however where Fe can be taken a little too far and I need to check myself and say "enough". Kinda like getting out of a stock while it's still going up.

Tert. Ti is a great thing to have since it sometimes allows me to interject the perfect word or phrase. It is pleasing to me to see someone's eyes twinkle after summing up what they were saying with a single word or a phrase. Flipside: At times I can be unintentionally insensitive.

Se seems to kick in when I observe something very beautiful or different, or have an urgent purpose in the concrete world that requires attention to things. Otherwise my Se is terrible..."how could you not have noticed x or y??"

 

[Knew]

When comes to emotional intelligence it's obvious who has the upper hand, so, taking individual differences into account, it would be fair to say that......... It's not up for debate......I guess it's sounds boring when u know that u ve done ur research on the mattaaaaa.....infjs it is.

As far as rational and practical intelligence goes, it might be a close cool.....those who are strongly logical can represent even fallable ideas in a preety ribbon....and sweeten the textures for the simple minded in a way that's easy to swallow.....in which case...... I pick.........erm......intj.

And social intelligence, well, let's jus say.....infj can seem a bit awkward initially bu once u get use to dem, only den do they hop out of der shell to expose sum next shit. At least in my experience ;]

 

[imocheann]

I don't post here often. It might even be my first post. Sorry if I'm being non-Fe by resurrecting a dead thread but I'm fascinated by the INFJ/INTJ divide and these questions, [MENTION=2746]Tactical Panda[/MENTION], are excellent.

I can almost pinpoint the time I was pulled into being an INFJ rather than INTJ. I don't think it was a choice between Fe and Te. I studied philosophy in college and had a Ti trip before I ever really got a chance to chose between them. It's really only in the last few years that I've been comfortable with being a lover rather than a challenger! I desperately wanted to be both but it took me a long time to learn how confusing and even hurtful that can be to others. I still experiment with Te a lot with certain strangers and even an a regular basis with my INTP friend who doesn't care particularly for my soft side. And I think I've a firm grasp on Fi because I've worked with an INFP in creative collaboration for 10 years. Blah blah blah, onto the questions.

1.)

When it comes to emotional intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly Ni and Fi compared to Ni and Fe? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

This all might be controversial so sorry for any damaged egos. I think F is really just a value system and only orientates the surrounding functions. I think Fe can incline someone to be empathetic but it only accounts for the impulse, not ability. That's why ENFJs can be vaguely interested in everybody with no real understanding, that's sympathy not empathy. Similarly I think Fi can incline someone the same way, if one of the user's personal concerns is other people's emotional well-being. That's why I think INFPs can have an inclination to project rather than empath, the work of their Ne. They can jump the gun and imagine what you're thinking because they know what they would be thinking if they were saying what you're saying, if you have me.

I think empathy lives in seeing the tears behind the smile, the truth coming out through the use of certain words, or the arrangement of language. This kind of subtlety is the playground of intuition. That's why, to me, INFPs are great lovers and readers of people but can't match the ENFP. That's why INFJs are said to be natural therapists even when they don't have the same desire to give that ENFJs do. An ENFJ will listen to you all day at any time. An INFJ will get tired of it and then arrange to meet for coffee at a later time so they can give you the time to be more than a listener.

I may be biased but on a side note, I think that however popular ENFPs are as confidants they will often fall into the INFP projection trap and give you advice based on what they would do. INFJs give advice based on what they think YOU COULD do. For this reason, if I'm honest, I don't see why an INTJ can't be right up there. INTJs already soak up the same information about social subtleties that INFJs do so, if they just temporarily shift from trying to trip people up to asking them how they are, what's the difference? I have an INTJ friend who changed my life recently with one isolated insight. Similarly my ENTJ brother can be my most useful confidant at times because he uses Te to find inconsistencies in my emotional life. In summary, where INTJs are concerned, I don't see how they could be so far from Fe since they once experimented with it to chose Te, and I don't see why Te can't be orientated to examine emotional content in others.

2.)

When it comes to social intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly of... erm... all of the functions, I suppose? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

In isolation I don't think the perceiving functions do anything socially.

Fi
Makes others feel comfortable because of its consistency and comfort with itself.
Respects the individuality of others.
It demands an immediate respect.
Has courage of conviction and knows what it wants / Its genuine
Expects too much of itself and others.
Selfish with its energy and time
Has little understanding of boundaries.
Has trouble seeing resolution in conflict
Consolidates patterns of self-reflection instead of adapting because it's obsessed with its identity. This can be detrimental to itself and its relationships.
(Is it obvious I work with an INFP and have an ENFP ex!?)

Fe
Generous with energy and time / gives others the space to be themselves.
Warm to strangers
Understands compromise and the boundaries of others
Good with conflict resolution
Shares its sweets
Doesn't understand its own boundaries and pulls users into destructive patterns
Has trouble accepting help
Impractical
Can be fake
Can be dictatorial


Se
Honest
Great fun
Spontaneous
Approachable
Adventurous
Too honest
Loud
Brash
Thinks intuition is a form of insanity

Si (this is hard)
Honest
Curious
Consistent
Has a beautiful innocence
Stubborn
Boring
Has trouble understanding emotion

3.)

When it comes to rational intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions - particularly Ni and Ti compared to Ni and Te? What do you enjoy about your functions compared to if you were stuck with the other type's alternative? What are some of the difficulties you have faced with your functions and type in this area?

I think the main difference between the two combinations is the ease at which they can be expressed. ie.) I would like to think, all things being equal, Ti could match Te in the performance of a task that requires rational organisation, eg organising a holiday, making a budget, etc. Ti beats Te at maths, chess etc. Te beats Ti at getting a job or expressing rationale. Basically Ti=Tactics, Te=Strategy. Ti will beat Te at chess unless Te can psyche Ti out.

Ni/Ti is useful because it creates a very tactile web of information that allows the user to make predictions and decisions before the fact. Together they're almost like a value system. A glorious objective value system. The problem is INFJs sometimes appear that they make huge life decisions with no rationale. It's very difficult to express but it's just obvious to us. It's like a constellation of interrelated a-priori-ness. Like music. It's a perfect system that automatically updates when a new interval is discovered. The problem is that Fe is concerned with the imperfection of people. It's in real opposition to Ni/Ti. Fe likes the status quo and Ni/Ti wants to tear the whole thing down because it knows better. It's like being a composer who can't perform the music they write. It results in phases of paralysis and reluctance to assert one's intellect. Fe affords me access to the finer things in life but it keeps me from taking over the world like an INTJ. I can't remember the facts because I spend too much energy on enjoying other people.

I don't need to tell you about Ni/Te but to me it's very impressive and enviable at times. Nearly every time an INTJ opens their mouth I think "Oh, that's how to express that". It's the embodiment of Ni/Ti I'll never have. It's such a clear, succinct and comprehensive combination and the insights are so delicious and perfect. So much so that I don't have much to say on it.

Ni/Te/Fi has expectations and intellectually enters the world. Ni/Fe/Ti waits for a problem to solve or for questions to be asked of it. I couldn't have formulated any of this without the questions triggering the response.

I remember not to envy INTJs when someone really looks me in the eyes. I don't think many experience the eye contact some types give INFJs. The playful curiosity of an ENFP, the pleading of an INFP, the cold dead stare of an INTP (!), the "You freak, I'm going to figure you out" of an INTJ!

4.)

When it comes to practical intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions? Maybe cooking, fixing stuff, playing sport and getting the day to day or normal part of life jobs done well?

Again I think the perceiving functions are as practically neutral as the judging functions are socially.

Ti
Systematic
Logical
Tactical

Te
Efficient
Rational
Strategic

Fe
Global thinking
People centred

Fi
Subjective thinking
Individual centred

That said I suspect spatial/bodily awareness is almost entirely made up of Se/Si. And I do consider them practical intelligences. I can't tell you how many times I've stopped ENFPs from walking out in front of cars and how often an ISFJ has known I was hungry before I did. Intuition is obviously powerful practically and influences intelligence but (like feeling being empathically neutral) it's just a curiosity until it's applied with a judgement.

Phew!

 

[CogentPursuit]

4.) When it comes to practical intelligence, what have you found are some of the pros and cons of the different functions? Maybe cooking, fixing stuff, playing sport and getting the day to day or normal part of life jobs done well?

I have a feeling that the different types might not agree on what practical is and thus will not agree on what practical intelligence is. ...sports?...

 

[LucyJr]

INFjs are the most insightful of all types. Their secret weapon is Ti, which kind of "guards" Ni.

 

[Dohavior]

My experience is that INFJs don't fit into the INFJ group nor INTJs into the INTJ group of cognitive functions. That MBTI is completely subjective and where 1 person sees Te another sees Fe.

And not fitting is a measurement just the same. Perhaps INFJ describes every person whom does not fit the INFJ requirements surely that is the definition itself of INFJ. Now while you are at it tell me you have evidence of something that doesn't exist proving that it doesn't exist! Surely I would love to hear that.

MBTI no where does it touch upon any person or psyche. Carl Jung created empirical measurements for studying any physical being. Subsequent authors of the MBTI put those static answers into dynamic inter relating flux. You are subjective to something tangible and coherent or you don't exist and therefor are not a part of the equation. Step outside the 16 types and certain evolutionary processes will auto correct.

 

[ImaginaryBloke]

When Fi is too ambitious in INTJs, expect weird behavior.

 

[Ryso89]

From what I've experienced with INTJs, it would appear that their need for logical steps of action seems to get in the way of their intuitive capabilities. I say this from my many interactions with a close friend. I usually jump to a point or solution, and it's as if he doesn't understand how I got there at all, like he's stuck in the process. Usually I'll ask him, how can you not see this? But he'll always retort with a need to discover each step.

INTJ seems to lack creativity and imagination by comparison to the INFJ. Imagination is a hallmark of intelligence. The INTJ mind is extraordinarily brilliant in their understanding of systems but they don't seem to appear to reach the depths of understanding that NF is capable of. Just my thoughts.

 

[Eventhorizon]

From what I've experienced with INTJs, it would appear that their need for logical steps of action seems to get in the way of their intuitive capabilities. I say this from my many interactions with a close friend. I usually jump to a point or solution, and it's as if he doesn't understand how I got there at all, like he's stuck in the process. Usually I'll ask him, how can you not see this? But he'll always retort with a need to discover each step.

INTJ seems to lack creativity and imagination by comparison to the INFJ. Imagination is a hallmark of intelligence. The INTJ mind is extraordinarily brilliant in their understanding of systems but they don't seem to appear to reach the depths of understanding that NF is capable of. Just my thoughts.

Give at least one example. You may be highly intelligent, I don't know you well enough to know. But the idea that somehow you come to a correct conclusion quickly and others have to catch up? I've always wondered what an intj would be like without a brain...

In terms of imagination? My imagination is off the charts. I can hold the size ... the distances of the known universe in my head even though for how its compared to us it's basically infinite. This probably doesn't sound like a big deal until you first have an idea of how long it takes to get places and the speeds involved.

Just the other day I was trying to picture how at that type of size we were not really seeing our own galaxy in different stages and configurations as it might look in an infinite time loop.

 

[Ryso89]

Give at least one example. You may be highly intelligent, I don't know you well enough to know. But the idea that somehow you come to a correct conclusion quickly and others have to catch up? I've always wondered what an intj would be like without a brain...

In terms of imagination? My imagination is off the charts. I can hold the size ... the distances of the known universe in my head even though for how its compared to us it's basically infinite. This probably doesn't sound like a big deal until you first have an idea of how long it takes to get places and the speeds involved.

Just the other day I was trying to picture how at that type of size we were not really seeing our own galaxy in different stages and configurations as it might look in an infinite time loop.

I'm not saying INTJs are not imaginative, I'm saying that it is applied differently, but my bias is that I have based the observation on my best friend of many years (INTJ), and he simply doesn't have the vivid imagination that I do by comparison, and I say that with confidence because I know him well. The problem here is comparing two completely unique types, and because this is a discussion forum, here we are.

It appears that the authority of my assertions has you bothered... there's no need to be. You're perceiving my suggestion to say that "INFJs are smarter than INTJs", which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that, insofar as I understand intelligence in the animal kingdom, creativity and imagination are trademark signatures of the most intelligent life forms to exist. Might I be wrong? I may, and I'm not blind to new information, but this is my input on the subject of comparing the intelligence of INFJ versus INTJ. Also, I'm not always ahead of my friend, but my interests in life are more vast by comparison, and likely the breadth of my knowledge. Do I have research to justify these claims of INFJ versus INTJ? No, but that doesn't matter. It's personal experience. Anyway, hope that helps.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I'm not saying INTJs are not imaginative, I'm saying that it is applied differently, but my bias is that I have based the observation on my best friend of many years (INTJ), and he simply doesn't have the vivid imagination that I do by comparison, and I say that with confidence because I know him well. The problem here is comparing two completely unique types, and because this is a discussion forum, here we are.

It appears that the authority of my assertions has you bothered... there's no need to be. You're perceiving my suggestion to say that "INFJs are smarter than INTJs", which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that, insofar as I understand intelligence in the animal kingdom, creativity and imagination are trademark signatures of the most intelligent life forms to exist. Might I be wrong? I may, and I'm not blind to new information, but this is my input on the subject of comparing the intelligence of INFJ versus INTJ. Also, I'm not always ahead of my friend, but my interests in life are more vast by comparison, and likely the breadth of my knowledge. Do I have research to justify these claims of INFJ versus INTJ? No, but that doesn't matter. It's personal experience. Anyway, hope that helps.

Nope. I have no concern with intelligence as I certainly do not believe it has anything to do with mbti. You have to define what intelligence you are speaking of anyway. My focus was on imagination. Imagination is what allows me to play out ideas. Its what allowed me to imagine what is noew called the holographic universe theory long before ever reading or hearing about it. I don't think mbti has anything to do with imagination just as it has nothing to do with intellect. So I would only say that what you are imagining or interested in imagining is more likely what effects your ability to come up with certain answers more quickly.

 

[Ryso89]

Where did I say intelligence and MBTI are related? Definitely didn't allude to that, but I see how you came to that assumption.

 

[highlighter]

INTJs in general get the Smartest Title....with INFJ/INTPs in a close second place.
But Honestly I disagree, i mean basically I would rank abstract thought Far higher than any reality based intelligence. What i am trying to say that "Soft Science" is far superior to any hard science because how smart does one REALLY have to be when dealing with a Hard science? not very since its all based in math or reality its not like you have to actually ponder something so deep its beyond human understanding. Basically INTJs are Hard Science and and INFJ is Soft science. Both are needed but in general INTJs (and INTPs) for that matter are basically just really good at Arguing....and arguing is basically bulls shit. its a stupid crude way to bully and say I WIN!!!! its a sign of people low emotional intelligence, and deep insecurity. I honestly really feel a deep sense of empathy for people like this and really for people who are Fi users. I feel for you. I really do.

and the other question i have is this...if these NT rationals are so smart than why are they ruled by emotions!?!?!?
they get hurt or ego bruised and they CANT DEAL WITH IT..... or they fall in love and again they CANT DEAL WITH IT......sorry that doesnt sound very smart too me. Oh they can argue and do that too high heaven and be stubborn but does that really matter?

i think of it this way,
Jesus didn't argue. if you tried to argue with him he basically told you are thinking about the wrong topic and walked away. Dude that is a total infj move. and if Empathy was so useless, as i have had an INTJ and an INTP tell me than why are all these people attend a church a christian church BUILT BY A GOD WITH empathy????

makes no sense,

 

[Wyote]

if Empathy was so useless

People trying to promote this message are simply either unaware of its actual importance/necessity or they are trying to tilt you in some way.
Lots of things that you don't like or gravitate toward are also important. Debate is important, being able to communicate effectively and self-promote is highly advantageous.
An argument for argument's sake is akin to practicing piano. The problem is if you don't want to practice and the other person does because it's natural to them, it's like they are forcing you to sit on the bench and stroke the keys. Nobody likes that. But it's a catch-22, nobody really likes the things that are good for them because they are often the more difficult pathways.

Imagine if you were an INFJ and good at arguing and hard science. How many people can really balance facets of themselves and their potential with confidence? Not many, perhaps none. At least not in a permanent state.

 

[Eventhorizon]

INTJs in general get the Smartest Title....with INFJ/INTPs in a close second place.
But Honestly I disagree, i mean basically I would rank abstract thought Far higher than any reality based intelligence. What i am trying to say that "Soft Science" is far superior to any hard science because how smart does one REALLY have to be when dealing with a Hard science? not very since its all based in math or reality its not like you have to actually ponder something so deep its beyond human understanding. Basically INTJs are Hard Science and and INFJ is Soft science. Both are needed but in general INTJs (and INTPs) for that matter are basically just really good at Arguing....and arguing is basically bulls shit. its a stupid crude way to bully and say I WIN!!!! its a sign of people low emotional intelligence, and deep insecurity. I honestly really feel a deep sense of empathy for people like this and really for people who are Fi users. I feel for you. I really do.

and the other question i have is this...if these NT rationals are so smart than why are they ruled by emotions!?!?!?
they get hurt or ego bruised and they CANT DEAL WITH IT..... or they fall in love and again they CANT DEAL WITH IT......sorry that doesnt sound very smart too me. Oh they can argue and do that too high heaven and be stubborn but does that really matter?

i think of it this way,
Jesus didn't argue. if you tried to argue with him he basically told you are thinking about the wrong topic and walked away. Dude that is a total infj move. and if Empathy was so useless, as i have had an INTJ and an INTP tell me than why are all these people attend a church a christian church BUILT BY A GOD WITH empathy????

makes no sense,

I dont understand, are you suggesting intjs do not utilize or implement abstract thought as well or better than another group? If so I dont think you have a good understanding of the type.

 

[highlighter]

that is what I am saying,
If an INTJ requires "proof" for something that is not tangible than yes I would say they are unable to understand abstraction. If the INTJ can not require proof than I would say ok they are able to process abstraction. this would surprise me as i have never met an INTJ that can truly do this. Most live by the motto of "prove it" or you are wrong.

just saying

 

[Eventhorizon]

that is what I am saying,
If an INTJ requires "proof" for something that is not tangible than yes I would say they are unable to understand abstraction. If the INTJ can not require proof than I would say ok they are able to process abstraction. this would surprise me as i have never met an INTJ that can truly do this. Most live by the motto of "prove it" or you are wrong.

just saying

You don't have to have proof of something to contemplate it or how it could potentially fit into a story. Do have to have proof to make it a foundationally relevant measure or addition to a story though.