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INFJ subtypes

I tried very hard to occupy the chat for a portion of each day from the time we got it going, but as time went on I was often in there alone. Every now and then I'll try again, but it still isn't frequented by many. Indie (Individuation) can usually be counted on to be there, and I enjoy chatting with him, but even our timing was off the last couple of times I went in.

Then Bob(bot) died and it appeared that nobody was in there for weeks (even if there was someone in there!)...

Now I basically only go in when somebody specifically invites me to. Had a nice chat with Wyote there not long ago :)
 
I tried very hard to occupy the chat for a portion of each day from the time we got it going, but as time went on I was often in there alone. Every now and then I'll try again, but it still isn't frequented by many. Indie (Individuation) can usually be counted on to be there, and I enjoy chatting with him, but even our timing was off the last couple of times I went in.

Then Bob(bot) died and it appeared that nobody was in there for weeks (even if there was someone in there!)...

Now I basically only go in when somebody specifically invites me to. Had a nice chat with Wyote there not long ago :)

Should we create a desginated "chat time" thread? So we can like plan times of the day for people to go into the chat so it gets occupied?
 
What? No, I started a thread about a chat today and the only three people that came were on a time limit, so if you didn't get your fill of chat today when it was available that's your fault, and I left for two minutes and Gloomy already went to class!

Warning; not for virgin ears.
HERALD MY RAGE BALE!
 
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What? No, I started a thread about a chat today and the only three people that came were on a time limit, so if you didn't get your fill of chat today when it was available that's your fault, and I left for two minutes and Gloomy already went to class!

Warning; not for virgin ears.
HERALD MY RAGE BALE!

Babaloo! :D

Send me your AIM again. I think I lost it. I'll chat with you if I have time, and I'm student-free. :)
 
Well it's under my avatar, but I think chat would perhaps be for the best, maybe we can catch a few stragglers.
 
Well it's under my avatar, but I think chat would perhaps be for the best, maybe we can catch a few stragglers.

Gotcha! True, true...:D Maybe tonight's a good night to chat while I finish my homework. :p
 
Types within types:

So I've started to notice patterns within types and it's got me wondering and I think I've noticed a simple way of breaking types down further.

I will use INFJs as an example to help explain it.

During my time on the forum I've noticed three typical variations to the general INFJ type, first of all we have;

The Primary Variant: This is basically the Uber-INFJ, when you hear someone referring to a "strong" personality they are probably describing a primary variant. This variant is dominated by the primary cognitive process, Ni in the case of INFJs. Their Ni is what is most obvious to others, for me when I come across one of these I find them fascinating
yet difficult to understand, very intuitive/abstract and future orientated. Examples from the forum of this variant; HolySmoke, G.Kai (he should come back, I miss him).

The Secondary Variant: In this variant their secondary process is most evident to others, in the case of INFJs Fe. This variant is very people orientated and often have great depth of feeling, they are always looking to resolve conflict and look out for others. They have a very maternal vibe. Examples from the forum: Sumone, Zencat.

The Tertiary Variant: These INFJs have very obvious tertiary processes, in the case of INFJs this is Ti. The tertiary INFJ will break down ideas, concepts and arguments with precision. They are principled, rational and always questioning. Satya is the poster boy for the tertiary variant INFJ. :D

Younger INFJs don't seem to fit into the system as easily but I believe IndigoSensor to be heading towards the primary variant, Gloomy heading towards the secondary and perhaps Wyote heading towards the tertiary.

Perhaps the wording I've used (primary, secondary etc.
) may not be appropriate as it implies a heirachy where there is none, they are all equally INFJ.

It works for ENTPs too, with a Ne variant, a Ti variant and and Fe variant. Shai Gar representing the Primary variant with lots of unusual ideas, Deathjam representing the secondary with his technical knowhow and Lurker (if she is ENTP) representing the tertiary variant with more interest in other people and perhaps more socially appropriate.

For my type I have noticed the three variants as well, ISFP has the Fi variant, the Se variant and the Ni variant. With the primary (Fi) variant being deeply emotional, the secondary (Se) variant being stereotypically SP more interested in doing than feeling or wondering and then finally you have the Ni variant, this type is more intuitive than the usual Sensor and is more prone to daydreaming and pondering. I believe my type is the Tertiary variant ISFP, which explains why I find iNtuitves so interesting.

Hmm interested in what you think, might come back to this to refine it.

Good work!

Can I be an INFJ Type 4 Variant? Strong Fe, Ti, and Se? Hehe.

This test said I had Excellent Use in all of them. *cognitive flex*

Actually, that test might be a fairly good indicator of the types in your theory.

And in all honesty, your theory is in line with all the cognitive function pair theories I've read. As people become stressed, they are forced to develop more and more of their lesser functions because their primaries are not working. Apparently, I've been under a lot of stress in my life, heh.

My personal theory is that the order of our pairs dictates how much development we get in them, because we stop using them once we succeed in a task. For instance, if INFJs get the task completed with just Ni, they only add some development to Ni. If they have to get to Ti to complete the task, then they develop Ni, Fe, and Ti. Therefore, using that pattern, it stands to reason why most people develop each function in proportion to the order of their precedence. All things being equal, Ni would get developed 100% of the time we are thinking because it is always used, Fe would get developed 75% of the time because a fourth of the time (equivalent number, baseless in fact) Ni solves the task, Ti would only get developed 50% of the time, because Fe would get the rest, and Se would only get developed 25% of the time because Ti would solve the rest.

Of course, those numbers are just a quick example. The other consideration is that if a function has no effect on a task, then it obviously won't develop, and gets skipped. Therefore, it's not just a question of being under stress, but what kinds of tasks are involved in removing the stress. If we focus on Ti tasks that don't do much for Fe, then we could end up with a strong Ti and a minor Fe. As INFJs, we would still go Ni, Fe, then Ti, but our Fe wouldn't be very well developed. The brain is a muscle, and we can isolate the areas we grow. It probably won't change how our minds function with respect to dominant orders, but it will change how effective those functions are.

However, there is a plateau of development in cognitive functions, and eventually Fe, Ti, and even little Se catch up with Ni. This is why people tend to have more of these functions as they age. I think stress is only relevent because it forces us to think, and therefore develop much faster than usual. Any degree of problem solving in life still has an effect on this development, but 'stress' forces us to do this to a much more obvious degree.

This means that a person would have to fail to solve a problem with all four of their type functions before they began to develop their lesser functions. For an INFJ, those would be Ne, Fi, Te, and Si. Looking at my results, it is clear that I've been pushed to that point enough to develop my Ne and Fi, but not so much with my Te or Si. Apparently, I've been under a fair amount of stress in life, but haven't been under as much stress as I thought, hehe.

If a person was forced into those situations often enough, then they could begin to reorder their cognitive function precedence. I think this is the point at which people 'change' rather than simply 'improve'. For example, an INFJ could become an ENFJ, or even an ENFP or any other function pair order. However, I think that this is only likely when their standard pairs consistently fail them.
 
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What? No, I started a thread about a chat today and the only three people that came were on a time limit, so if you didn't get your fill of chat today when it was available that's your fault, and I left for two minutes and Gloomy already went to class!

Warning; not for virgin ears.
HERALD MY RAGE BALE!

Sorry about that D: I was already in class, and then when I got on afterwards in math class (cuz I don't pay attention in that class anyways) no one was in there..
 
Wow Von Hase, great stuff, yes that goes along the lines I was thinking. I see these variants as different shades of a type and more fluid/changeable/overlapping than the overall type.

Like you said stress could be one of the factors influencing these variations, I also think social conditioning is a major influence, an INFJ child with strict SJ parents may be forced into reigning in their Ni for example.
 
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Wow Von Hase, great stuff, yes that goes along the lines I was thinking. I see these variants as different shades of a type and more fluid/changeable/overlapping than the overall type.

Like you said stress could be one of the factors influencing these variations, I also think social conditioning is a major influence, an INFJ child with strict SJ parents may be forced into reigning in their Ni for example.

The idea that parents can have an affect on a child's cognitive function is very sound. My parents are ESFJ and ISTP. They are likely one of the reasons my Se is so well developed, possibly also my Ti.

However, developing a function pair and changing the order of function pairs are two different things entirely. If a child was INFJ, but had parents who encouraged the development of Se and Ti, it wouldn't change the order of the INFJs cognitive pairs. The child would still begin at Ni, then move to Fe, then Ti, then Se before achieving cognitive solutions. They would just be better at Se and Ti than most other INFJ children. It is highly possible that they end up better at Se and Ti than Ni and Fe.

MBTI type is not an indicator of how well we think, just an assessment of the order in which we think.

If a child was stressed enough by their parents, it is possible that they could switch the order of their function pairs, but such a situation would likely have to be abusively domineering. For instance, an INFJ could be 'forced' to switch their Ni, Fe, Ti, Se to Ti, Se, Ni, Fe (ISTP) or even fully reverse them to Se, Ti, Fe, Ni (ESTP). However, it is more likely that the child simply learned to supress their unwelcomed processes in front of their abusers. Cognitive order is extremely difficult to permanently alter, but cognitive ability is very easy to develop.

In your case, I think you are likely still an INFJ, just one with a strong Se. That's Variant 4 in your approach? INFJv4? :smile:
 
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Those are some very good points. If there's one thing I hate about the nature vs. nurture arguments, it's that we don't really fuse together the idea enough that both could play very major parts.

You are your type, no matter what. However, that really only makes a difference in a few ways; there are a lot of ways a person in a type could be, depending on their environment and how they strengthen their functions.

Von Hase, you really explained it very well. You and Quin both have a lot of very interesting ideas ;)
 
I like all of these theories - fun stuff! It makes me think about my own typology as well. I'm stronger in Fe, but I have a pretty well-developed Te (an accident, I think) because I've had to help with some things around the home. It's very odd - I feel myself "switch off" when I'm with her, and Te becomes a defense mechanism. I'm never consciously cruel, but I can be and not know it.

But I wonder if it's acting more as a shadow process than a developed one?
 
This test said I had Excellent Use in all of them. *cognitive flex*

Actually, that test might be a fairly good indicator of the types in your theory.

I just had a good laugh... well. Not so much a laugh as a snort.

I followed the link to your test and took it. Hit submit, and these were my results:

You answered almost all the questionas as 'exactly like you,' which cannot give a useful picture of your development. Please use the 'Back' button to complete the questionnaire in a more realistic manner.
Talk about rude! They consider me unrealistic!? I've half a mind to write them and tell them to fix the damn typo in their judgmental "Go back and do it again and get results more akin to what WE want you to say!" Results Message.

BTW, there were 48 questions, and I answered 21 of them as something other than "exactly like me". By my calculations, that is nowhere near "almost all". Talk about unrealistic!

Stupid test. *kicks stupid test*
madwife.gif
 
LOL Zencat, you remind me so much of my mom right now :B
 
I like all of these theories - fun stuff! It makes me think about my own typology as well. I'm stronger in Fe, but I have a pretty well-developed Te (an accident, I think) because I've had to help with some things around the home. It's very odd - I feel myself "switch off" when I'm with her, and Te becomes a defense mechanism. I'm never consciously cruel, but I can be and not know it.

But I wonder if it's acting more as a shadow process than a developed one?

That's likely a strong Ti, actually. Ti is a very 'switch off' and detach function. As an INFJ, it would be your auxiliary function. Se is your inferior function, and if you are stressed enough to be pushed to Ti, it is likely that you're also leaning on your Se as well. The two make a 'Te effect'.

Keep in mind that this experience is highly common in INFJs when 'pushed' to it. It is the 'steel' that is in the core of us. When our normal selves are stripped away by our Ni and Fe functions not being effective, this is who we are underneath.

Don't be afraid of it, and understand that it is simply your back up personality. When you are there, you need to be, and it is okay to do so.
 
That's likely a strong Ti, actually. Ti is a very 'switch off' and detach function. As an INFJ, it would be your auxiliary function. Se is your inferior function, and if you are stressed enough to be pushed to Ti, it is likely that you're also leaning on your Se as well. The two make a 'Te effect'.

Keep in mind that this experience is highly common in INFJs when 'pushed' to it. It is the 'steel' that is in the core of us. When our normal selves are stripped away by our Ni and Fe functions not being effective, this is who we are underneath.

Don't be afraid of it, and understand that it is simply your back up personality. When you are there, you need to be, and it is okay to do so.

Ah, interesting! Thank you for that, Von - sometimes such things just "happen" and I like getting another perspective to see around the giant purple elephant in the room.

And thank you again for telling me it's normal. I feel bad when it happens, because I love my mother. But she drains me so very much without knowing it (she's ESTP) and she does not have an "off" switch...
 
The idea that parents can have an affect on a child's cognitive function is very sound. My parents are ESFJ and ISTP. They are likely one of the reasons my Se is so well developed, possibly also my Ti.

However, developing a function pair and changing the order of function pairs are two different things entirely. If a child was INFJ, but had parents who encouraged the development of Se and Ti, it wouldn't change the order of the INFJs cognitive pairs. The child would still begin at Ni, then move to Fe, then Ti, then Se before achieving cognitive solutions. They would just be better at Se and Ti than most other INFJ children. It is highly possible that they end up better at Se and Ti than Ni and Fe.

MBTI type is not an indicator of how well we think, just an assessment of the order in which we think.

If a child was stressed enough by their parents, it is possible that they could switch the order of their function pairs, but such a situation would likely have to be abusively domineering. For instance, an INFJ could be 'forced' to switch their Ni, Fe, Ti, Se to Ti, Se, Ni, Fe (ISTP) or even fully reverse them to Se, Ti, Fe, Ni (ESTP). However, it is more likely that the child simply learned to supress their unwelcomed processes in front of their abusers. Cognitive order is extremely difficult to permanently alter, but cognitive ability is very easy to develop.

OK so under the system I proposed all INFJs would have the same function order. This system would just be one that includes a description of how an INFJ (or any type) might look if one of it's lesser functions are obviously more developed. It could help people when typing themselves to be more aware of the fact that an INFJ with very strong Se for example, is entirely possible.

In your case, I think you are likely still an INFJ, just one with a strong Se. That's Variant 4 in your approach? INFJv4? :smile:

Hmm I am certain of my Fi, Se, Ni so I'm definitely an ISFP, under this system an INFJv4 (I like that format :D ) and ISFPv3 would be very similar (a combination of Ni and Se would be obvious in both). I have sometimes wondered if efromm and GO (INFJv4s) might be ISFPs in the past because I relate to their Se but this system would help explain things like that, where we can be different types but still relate quite well in terms of certain functions.
 
I'm pretty certain, deep down, that I'm definitely INFJ. However, my best friend is ESTP, and I've had events in the past that probably would have strengthened my Se. It's nice, because I can relate to a ton of different types because of it ;)
 
Hmm I am certain of my Fi, Se, Ni so I'm definitely an ISFP, under this system an INFJv4 (I like that format :D ) and ISFPv3 would be very similar (a combination of Ni and Se would be obvious in both). I have sometimes wondered if efromm and GO (INFJv4s) might be ISFPs in the past because I relate to their Se but this system would help explain things like that, where we can be different types but still relate quite well in terms of certain functions.

Very good. The biggest limitation of the MBTI approach is that it only established function order, and does nothing to measure ability within those functions. Your idea has a lot of merit.

My apologies. I assumed you were an INFP, but typed INFJ. I'm getting a little INFJ-centric here because of the target audience. I meant to type INFPv3. However, looks as if you're soild with your ISFPv3. Good work.

Perhaps the formula should be more specific and define these types by their increased functions, rather than numbers? For example, ISFP+Ni? This would allow for a string to display exactly what it is that we have developed. In my case, I might go so bold as to claim INFJ+Fe+Ti+Se (I think my Ni is normal for an INFJ, but my others have tested pretty strong.) This would avoid coming up with numbers for each possible combination, and allow that little cognitive function test to be somewhat of an indicator. It would also allow people to apply a negative for functions they don't have much of for a typical member of their type, for example INFJ+Fe-Ti.
 
Ah, interesting! Thank you for that, Von - sometimes such things just "happen" and I like getting another perspective to see around the giant purple elephant in the room.

And thank you again for telling me it's normal. I feel bad when it happens, because I love my mother. But she drains me so very much without knowing it (she's ESTP) and she does not have an "off" switch...

*nods* You're welcome, and my pleasure to help. :)