I'm starting to think I might be an ENFJ | Page 7 | INFJ Forum

I'm starting to think I might be an ENFJ

My other INTJ brought up an interesting point tonight.

"There might be more than the theory currently contains."


This was in reference to my revelation that I'm actually an INFJ, and not an ENFJ, despite how much I can seem like both. He suggested that there might be the possibility of Ambiverted people who don't have a dominant or secondary preference, just like handedness. While I've heard, and even proposed, variations on this theory more than a few times. He came up with an interesting proof as we talked.

"If the tertiary and inferior functions also have no preference, then it is very possible that someone is an ambivert. The lesser pattern aligns with the greater pattern."


The following are my average scores from the results of the cognitive function tests. I've been taking this test once every few weeks and recording the results for almost a year now, and averaged them as follows.

(Ni) ***************************************** (40.1)
(Fe) **************************************** (38.9)

(Ti) ******************************** (31.2)
(Se)******************************** (30.4)
(Fi) ****************************** (28.4)
(Ne) ***************************** (27.8)
(Te) ********************* (20.2)
(Si) ********************* (19.4)

What popped out to me, very clearly was not just that my dominant/secondary and tertiary/inferior scores were statistically equivalent, but also that my shadow functions mirrored the same effect. That's very interesting. This is going to warrant further contemplation, but at current, I've got two options I'm exploring.

1. Jung was a genius and got all of this right on his first try, and the effect exists because I've developed my dominant and secondary functions to an equivalent degree, and the rest have fallen into place according to the theory by developing into more balanced functions as I mature. However, this leaves a gaping hole: I've pretty much always been like this.

2. Jung was a genius, but there were a few points he didn't catch on his first take with this theory, and there actually is the possibility of ambiversion. As my INTJ friend said, "Ambidexterity is an extremely rare condition, and you have it. It wouldn't be too much of a relative leap to assume that it could be tied to cognitive ambiversion."



I think people can be XNFJ or ANFJ. That said I am going to go with slight ENFJ for you. I have heard that very many ENFJs and ENFPs (and ENs in general) are on that borderline.

I think true INs, tend to be pretty introverted.

That said, far be it from me to tell you your type, that is something you can decide for yourself, I am just trying to give you my perspective and I think you are ENFJ, maybe barely, but ENFJ still.
 
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INFJs can be borderline very easy; the nature of Fe is caring for other people. In the right area, the INFJ can become very extroverted because of their inclination to care for others.
 
It really can go either way. Some people are just borderline on functions, and it is very diffucalt to sort out. I am very introverted, but I actually have people mistake me for an extrovert quite often.

I was talking to von hase about another theory idea last night. That everyone has a "primary" mode, or a mbti that they are most confortable in, followed by around 3 other types in a certain order (related to cognitive function order) that can be turned on in the right situation or if the right pressure is applied. Some people's modes are close, one always is the primary. As such, I don't think it is possible for be to be an A/X for a given letter. It just seems like this is one of the last things, and hardest things, to determine in a person.

I have been working at my mbti to sort it out for a very long time, and after a recent revelation I had to my function order, and talking to VH, we came up with this idea, and I have determined for myself that my order is INFJ > INTJ > ISFJ > ISTJ. Given the right pressure I will shift out of INFJ to these other types. I can access other types, but they take a much higher level of pressure, as such they aren't included. My main set is I can easily access the four IJ varients. For VH, I believe he can access the four NF varients, or the four NJ varients (I am leaning to the former). For gloomy, I think she can access the four NF varients.
 
Yeah, I agree any combination is possible, I am talking about trends. I find there is a distinct difference between an extroverted INFJ and an introverted ENFJ.
 
I have been working at my mbti to sort it out for a very long time, and after a recent revelation I had to my function order, and talking to VH, we came up with this idea, and I have determined for myself that my order is INFJ > INTJ > ISFJ > ISTJ. Given the right pressure I will shift out of INFJ to these other types. I can access other types, but they take a much higher level of pressure, as such they aren't included. My main set is I can easily access the four IJ varients. For VH, I believe he can access the four NF varients, or the four NJ varients (I am leaning to the former). For gloomy, I think she can access the four NF varients.

I can access INTJ too, and sometimes INTP with the right does of physics and dark humor.
 
Yeah, I agree any combination is possible, I am talking about trends. I find there is a distinct difference between an extroverted INFJ and an introverted ENFJ.

Can you explain this in some detail? One of my biggest sources of confusion is whether or not I am an extroverted INFJ (as I suspect) or an introverted ENFJ inherently.
 
Actually, I think that information would be valuable to me too. Please, do tell!
 
It really can go either way. Some people are just borderline on functions, and it is very diffucalt to sort out. I am very introverted, but I actually have people mistake me for an extrovert quite often.

I was talking to von hase about another theory idea last night. That everyone has a "primary" mode, or a mbti that they are most confortable in, followed by around 3 other types in a certain order (related to cognitive function order) that can be turned on in the right situation or if the right pressure is applied. Some people's modes are close, one always is the primary. As such, I don't think it is possible for be to be an A/X for a given letter. It just seems like this is one of the last things, and hardest things, to determine in a person.

I have been working at my mbti to sort it out for a very long time, and after a recent revelation I had to my function order, and talking to VH, we came up with this idea, and I have determined for myself that my order is INFJ > INTJ > ISFJ > ISTJ. Given the right pressure I will shift out of INFJ to these other types. I can access other types, but they take a much higher level of pressure, as such they aren't included. My main set is I can easily access the four IJ varients. For VH, I believe he can access the four NF varients, or the four NJ varients (I am leaning to the former). For gloomy, I think she can access the four NF varients.

The more I ponder this theory, the more I like it, as it is congruent with everything I have read and seen proven about shadow functions, stress and type shifting, as well as the dynamic and adaptive nature of the human mind.

If I had to choose an order in which I function it would be...

INFJ > ENFJ > INTJ > ESTP > ISTP

However, each of these needs to be described.

INFJ Mode [Me Myself and I]: I claim this as my primary mode, because when I have nothing pressing me, stressing me, or prompting me, I am very much Ni > Fe > Ti > Se. For example, when I first wake up, I'm not chipper like an ENFJ. All I have going is Ni. I'm not grumpy. I'm just non-verbal. It takes me some time to get Fe online and functional.
Another trait is that when I'm in my 'normal' unstressed mode, I will always geek out with Ti before I will work out with Se. I will give a lot more precedence to tinkering with my geeky mechanisms than I do to hitting the gym, and will often forget to go because I'm geeking out too hard.

ENFJ Mode [The Charismatic Philosopher]: When I was growing up, I was the wierd kid. My father worked for the government, so we moved around a lot (14 different schools before I graduated), which afforded me the ability to reinvent myself several times as a kid. As an INFJ, I lived in my head (Ni), but I still cared about people (Fe) and I got really tired of not having any friends. One of the best parts about being Ni dominant is that we can develop an image of who we need to be and become that person. I modelled myself into my ENFJ mode to become more social, even charismatic. I can turn on this mode whenever I need to, but the duration I can keep it running is in direct inverse proportion to how large the groups are multipled by how well I don't know the people in them. I can ENFJ in small groups of very close friends and entertain everyone for hours and hours. Small groups of people I'm not close to require me to take frequent breaks for a few minutes, but I can still manage this for most of a day. Large groups of people I'm close to can manage a few hours of ENFJ mode. But large groups of unfamiliar people just shut me down almost immedietely. I just plain can't ENFJ in crowds.
Oddly though, if I need to, and can stay alone more often than not, I can keep ENFJ mode going for long periods, especially if people are counting on me to do so. When I'm in ENFJ mode, I'd rather work out than geek out, proving my Fe > Ni > Se > Ti switch.
I've also noticed that when I do this, my Ne seems to be amplified a bit. It really seems like it's more of a case of Fe > Ni > Se+Ni=Ne > Ti

INTJ Mode [Psuedo INTJ]: I've got a very strong Te and Ti. I don't think I'm actually going into Ni > Te > Fi > Se when I do this so much as this is how my T function focus manifests. It's more of a Ni > Ti+Fe=Te > Se, but it comes across as very INTJ (perhaps appearing like Ni > Te > Ti > Se), and harmonizes well with my INTJ friends. However, they're always acutely aware of my Fe, and seem to see my Ti+Fe=Te as a good imposter of Te, yet admire the Ti influence I bring. This is my academic mode, and pretty much is the mode I use when I geek out (like now). It's also the mode I use when I get overwhelmed by my emotions and have to shut them down. I really think Fe is my secondary function, because I'm not as fluent with it as Ni, and I can turn it off if need be. I've never, and I mean never been able to turn off my Ni.

ESTP Mode [The Undefeated Soldier]: I was raised by an ESTJ mother and was married to a wonderful ENFJ. Both of these women instilled a great deal of 'fire under my ass' to achieve more and be more in life. I have no doubt that this is my deal with stress mode, and is likely a hybrid of ENFJ mode and ESTP mode. This is my competitive mode. My father was a kung fu instructor (northern dragon style) and put me into classes at the age of 5. I had to learn this mode because with an ESTJ mother and an ISTP father, there was really no other way to make them happy at the same time. I can feel the shift of priorities, and it is strangely liberating when I go into this mode. Se > Ti > Fe > Ni. However, it needs to be mentioned that I don't really feel like I lose any capacity with my functions. I simply change the order in which I use them, and I've noticed an odd pattern to it where I sort of fail upward. I'm not as good with Se as Ti as Fe as Ni, and as I go down the list, I become more likely to succeed. It's almost as if I know I have a safety net when I'm in this mode, so I'm free to take risks I never would otherwise. I know my Fe and or Ni will cover any Se or Ti failings, setting the Se dominance free to be as assertive as I need to be. This is also my emergency mode that leaps out when anyone is hurt or there is real danger. My INTJ friend calls this my 'pushy dick' mode because it is so completely unyielding.

ISTP Mode [The Crafty Hiding Place]: Just as with ESTP mode, I am certain I learned ISTP mode as a defense mechanism to please my ESTJ and ISTP parents - and brought with it inverted function order but my normal function fluency. However, this mode came with an interesting side effect - artistic talent, buckets of it. Ti > Se > Ni > Fe makes for amazing spatial and abstract reasoning.
This is my go to mode when I am overwhelmed. This is what my mind does when I pull away and withdraw from the world. It seems as if my Ti and Ni bond into a NTi which pairs with my Se and Fe into SFe. I seem to turn Ni and Ti into a coherent reasoning function, but I drop a lot out of Se and Fe, and only keep the raw perceptual aspects. I can spend hours and hours here and not notice time passing. Once I go into it, I generally don't come out until my Fe starts to come back online as an F function, at which point the other functions start to separate and I slide back to normal.
Not suprisingly, my artistic abilities require this mode. I really suck at art unless I'm in this mode, and I have to be able to introvert without distractions in order to stay in it because it is a forced mode, and most likely the most poignant example of how my modes operate outside my base INFJ mode.
Lastly, I want to point out that this used to be my number three mode, but over the years, due to the stress and demands of life and making a living at jobs in a business world that is not very well suited to INFJs or even ISTPs, I had to rely more and more on my INTJ and ESTP modes, which is why they took over precedence in my mode hierarchy.
 
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I am going to try my best to put this into words, I am sorry if I don't quite hit the mark, I will try my best. Keep in mind in order to express these views I really have to boil things down and stereotype a bit more than I like to do. Forgive me if I do this too much, it is going to be hard to express this without putting people in boxes that I don't feel they should necessarily go in.

Ok, well I find that introverted ENFJs tend to take on much of the traits of EJs. They tend to be pretty judgmental (though open minded as well), and very quickly make judgments about people. They also tend to really emphasize politeness and positive relationships with people. This doesn't mean an extroverted INFJ won't do these things but I find this is crucial to ENFJs. Just in general from my experience ENFJs have a more formulated outer world, where INFJs in the outer world come across as 'feeling things out.'

I also notice that ENFJs (EJs in general) are more likely to have a hidden motive sometimes when they speak. They kind of get to the point in a roundabout way sometimes, usually to feel the person out, or perhaps they feel their idea will be misunderstood if stated directly. I don't see this as much in INFJ. When INFJ (or IJ in general) communicates it seems more direct. Actually on a side note, Soconics describes EPs/IJs as "static" personalities and EJs/IPs as 'dynamic', and this is kind of what they mean in a really abstract way.

I also think when they express their thoughts ENFJs tend to be pretty solid about them. They commit to their idea, and prefer to have it set, as opposed to INFJs who tend to walk the fence or be in the gray a lot with their views. I also find that ENFJs are more likely to take criticism to heart, often getting very defensive and emotional when personally 'attacked', or just shutting down completely. INFJs when criticized tend to start going into P mode as I call it where they just keep searching for more info about the criticism in an attempt perhaps to make sense of it in their heads, in essence assimilating the information before judging it.


Really the quickness and solidity of outer judgments I think is a good indicator. To INFJ the outer world is a dreamier place so to speak. Also, an introverted ENFJ may find it upsetting that they have trouble with making close friends, where extroverted INFJ wouldn't so much mind it preferring to keep only close friends and not worrying as much about it.


For me though the big thing is how open does the person come across in discussion. In my experience ENFJs really have made up their minds when they speak, whereas INFJs just seem more 'movable' in their position. Perhaps we could explain it as the Primary Judging/Secondary Perception vs. Primary Perception/Secondary Judging.


Another good way to find out is ask those you are close to. They know you well, how do they see you? Do your friends and family see someone who is extroverted or introverted. Their judgment would probably be more sound than a stranger's from the internet because they have so much more information to go off of.


I have some more ideas but when I wrote them they didn't quite come out right. I will add more later if you are interested.
 
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I am going to try my best to put this into words, I am sorry if I don't quite hit the mark, I will try my best. Keep in mind in order to express these views I really have to boil things down and stereotype a bit. Forgive me if I do this too much, it is going to be hard to express this without putting people in boxes that I don't feel they should necessarily go in.

Ok, well I find that introverted ENFJs tend to take on much of the traits of EJs. They tend to be pretty judgmental (though open minded as well), and very quickly make judgments about people. They also tend to really emphasize politeness and positive relationships with people. This doesn't mean an extroverted INFJ won't do these things but I find this is crucial to ENFJs. Just in general from my experience ENFJs have a more formulated outer world, where INFJs in the outer world come across as 'feeling things out.'

I also notice that ENFJs (EJs in general) are more likely to have a hidden motive sometimes when they speak. They kind of get to the point in a roundabout way sometimes, usually to feel the person out, or perhaps they feel their idea will be misunderstood if stated directly. I don't see this as much in INFJ. When INFJ (or IJ in general) communicates it seems more direct. Actually on a side note, Soconics describes EPs/IJs as "static" personalities and EJs/IPs as 'dynamic', and this is kind of what they mean in a really abstract way.

I also think when they express their thoughts ENFJs tend to be pretty solid about them. They commit to their idea, and prefer to have it set, as opposed to INFJs who tend to walk the fence or be in the gray a lot with their views. I also find that ENFJs are more likely to take criticism to heart, often getting very defensive and emotional when personally 'attacked', or just shutting down completely. INFJs when criticized tend to start going into P mode as I call it where they just keep searching for more info about the criticism in an attempt perhaps to make sense of it in their heads, in essence assimilating the information before judging it.


Really the quickness and solidity of outer judgments I think is a good indicator. To INFJ the outer world is a dreamier place so to speak. Also, an introverted ENFJ may find it upsetting that they have trouble with making close friends, where extroverted INFJ wouldn't so much mind it preferring to keep only close friends and not worrying as much about it.


For me though the big thing is how open does the person come across in discussion. In my experience ENFJs really have made up their minds when they speak, whereas INFJs just seem more 'movable' in their position. Perhaps we could explain it as the Primary Judging/Secondary Perception vs. Primary Perception/Secondary Judging.


Another good way to find out is ask those you are close to. They know you well, how do they see you? Do your friends and family see someone who is extroverted or introverted. Their judgment would probably be more sound than a stranger's from the internet because they have so much more information to go off of.


I have some more ideas but when I wrote them they didn't quite come out right. I will add more later if you are interested.

I don't know about ENFP's the people who know INFJs best are ourselves. Thats one blessing of Ni its is very inwardly turned and focused on us.
 
Repeated for emphasis:

I am going to try my best to put this into words, I am sorry if I don't quite hit the mark, I will try my best. Keep in mind in order to express these views I really have to boil things down and stereotype a bit more than I like to do. Forgive me if I do this too much, it is going to be hard to express this without putting people in boxes that I don't feel they should necessarily go in.


I would also like to point out the 3 ways of explaining who we are. I am sure everyone had heard this I am not sure who wrote it originally, but I don't want to take credit.

1) How we view ourselves
2) How others view us
3) How we really are (of course one could argue #3 is a combination of #1 and #2)

We can see ourselves a certain way and be so sure on that, but others may not feel that way. Who is right?

The classic example is an arrogant person. Arrogant people NEVER see themselves as arrogant right? Other people see them as arrogant. Eventually when enough people have told them they are arrogant many of them realize and change. If we make the claim that we know ourselves best, then we can fall into this trap of not being open minded enough to see the 'truth'. On the other hand if we always trust others, it can be stressful from never feeling like we really know who we are. A balance is key for everything.
 
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The classic example is an arrogant person. Arrogant people NEVER see themselves as arrogant right? Other people see them as arrogant. Eventually when enough people have told them they are arrogant many of them realize and change.

If an arrogant person NEVER sees themselves as arrogant, it doesn't matter how many people tell them they are arrogant, they'll never see it.

If we make the claim that we KNOW ourselves best, then we can fall into this trap of not being open minded enough to see the 'truth'. On the other hand if we always trust others, it can be stressful from never feeling like we really know who we are. A balance is key for everything.

An individual always knows themselves the best. Others can offer insights the individual may not be aware of. This does not mean that the individual knows themselves less than those who notice something that they didn't. The correct statement is that an individual can never know everything about themselves, and that others may have insights an individual does not about themselves. Not allowing for the possibility is foolish, but to assume that someone knows someone better than they know themselves is even more foolish. Your statement is another example of attempting to apply a universal constant to a situational variable, and is therefore relativistic. You're placing more emphasis on the conditional than the universal, and are demanding that the universal step aside when the conditional conflicts with it, rather than allowing the two to coexist with the universal being the constant and the situational being the variable.

The situational is always implied beneath the universal, because we live in a dynamic universe. There are always instances where the conditional will override the constant, but these instances are always temporary. Just because it can doesn't make it the rule, nor does it invalidate the rule. It's like saying that because some people jump in lines, that lines don't exist.

It seems as if the argument is more important to you than the solution. Please stay on topic.
 
If an arrogant person NEVER sees themselves as arrogant, it doesn't matter how many people tell them they are arrogant, they'll never see it.



An individual always knows themselves the best. Others can offer insights the individual may not be aware of. This does not mean that the individual knows themselves less than those who notice something that they didn't. The correct statement is that an individual can never know everything about themselves, and that others may have insights an individual does not about themselves. Not allowing for the possibility is foolish, but to assume that someone knows someone better than they know themselves is even more foolish. Your statement is another example of attempting to apply a universal constant to a situational variable, and is therefore relativistic. You're placing more emphasis on the conditional than the universal, and are demanding that the universal step aside when the conditional conflicts with it, rather than allowing the two to coexist with the universal being the constant and the situational being the variable.

The situational is always implied beneath the universal, because we live in a dynamic universe. There are always instances where the conditional will override the constant, but these instances are always temporary. Just because it can doesn't make it the rule, nor does it invalidate the rule. It's like saying that because some people jump in lines, that lines don't exist.

It seems as if the argument is more important to you than the solution. Please stay on topic.


You and your assumptions


When did I ever say another person knows you better than yourself?
Answer: never

Also when I say an arrogant person never realizes, that should be worded as doesn't realize until others tell them. Arrogance never realizes it until it is pointed out repeatedly and then sometimes still doesn't.


The point is we must be open to what others say or we can never fully understand ourselves. One of life's little ironies.

In seeing me as too relative you are taking what I am saying too concretely. Yay, more irony. Though I admit, my post could have been better worded in areas, sorry about that.

Let's stay on topic though, what do you think about your ENFJ vs INFJ issue?
 
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I am going to try my best to put this into words, I am sorry if I don't quite hit the mark, I will try my best. Keep in mind in order to express these views I really have to boil things down and stereotype a bit more than I like to do. Forgive me if I do this too much, it is going to be hard to express this without putting people in boxes that I don't feel they should necessarily go in.

Ok, well I find that introverted ENFJs tend to take on much of the traits of EJs. They tend to be pretty judgmental (though open minded as well), and very quickly make judgments about people. They also tend to really emphasize politeness and positive relationships with people. This doesn't mean an extroverted INFJ won't do these things but I find this is crucial to ENFJs. Just in general from my experience ENFJs have a more formulated outer world, where INFJs in the outer world come across as 'feeling things out.'

I also notice that ENFJs (EJs in general) are more likely to have a hidden motive sometimes when they speak. They kind of get to the point in a roundabout way sometimes, usually to feel the person out, or perhaps they feel their idea will be misunderstood if stated directly. I don't see this as much in INFJ. When INFJ (or IJ in general) communicates it seems more direct. Actually on a side note, Soconics describes EPs/IJs as "static" personalities and EJs/IPs as 'dynamic', and this is kind of what they mean in a really abstract way.

I also think when they express their thoughts ENFJs tend to be pretty solid about them. They commit to their idea, and prefer to have it set, as opposed to INFJs who tend to walk the fence or be in the gray a lot with their views. I also find that ENFJs are more likely to take criticism to heart, often getting very defensive and emotional when personally 'attacked', or just shutting down completely. INFJs when criticized tend to start going into P mode as I call it where they just keep searching for more info about the criticism in an attempt perhaps to make sense of it in their heads, in essence assimilating the information before judging it.


Really the quickness and solidity of outer judgments I think is a good indicator. To INFJ the outer world is a dreamier place so to speak. Also, an introverted ENFJ may find it upsetting that they have trouble with making close friends, where extroverted INFJ wouldn't so much mind it preferring to keep only close friends and not worrying as much about it.


For me though the big thing is how open does the person come across in discussion. In my experience ENFJs really have made up their minds when they speak, whereas INFJs just seem more 'movable' in their position. Perhaps we could explain it as the Primary Judging/Secondary Perception vs. Primary Perception/Secondary Judging.


Another good way to find out is ask those you are close to. They know you well, how do they see you? Do your friends and family see someone who is extroverted or introverted. Their judgment would probably be more sound than a stranger's from the internet because they have so much more information to go off of.


I have some more ideas but when I wrote them they didn't quite come out right. I will add more later if you are interested.

I agree. And here's why:

I have a very close ENFJ friend. We are very much alike; I don't think I've met anyone who thinks as much like me as this guy. We notice the same thing, think along the same lines, and today we both wore the same t-shirt by accident. I had a dream that I was pregnant at the same time he was half-awake-hallucinating that he was in the womb. It's almost creepy.

However, the differences between us are almost exactly as you mentioned. I am an "extroverted" INFJ, and he's pretty "introverted" for an ENFJ. But he still has his strong convictions of how things "should" be, is very caught in his ideas once they take root, and can be really defensive. He tends to make statements that seem to have an alternative meaning quite often.
I, on the other hand, am the free-spirit of our group. I am the one that wants to try new things, that wants to do the crazy antics, and all that. I'm more willing to change my position, and my ideas do tend to border-line. And while he gets defensive, I'm more likely to find things to back up my side before I get offended (although I do get somewhat defensive sometimes, not going to hide it).

So yes. I support you on these statements.
 
I am going to try my best to put this into words, I am sorry if I don't quite hit the mark, I will try my best. Keep in mind in order to express these views I really have to boil things down and stereotype a bit more than I like to do. Forgive me if I do this too much, it is going to be hard to express this without putting people in boxes that I don't feel they should necessarily go in.

I have no problem with putting people in boxes because these things are just trends and not absolutes. You can in fact put all the blonde people you know into a group containing blondes. Are some people in between blonde and brunette? Certainly. Does this indicate anything other than hair color? Of course not. But, the fact of the matter is that blondes have blonde hair. With respect to MBTI personality type, this is still applicable. No two people are going to be exactly alike, but people of any given type share some basic cognitive traits.

Ok, well I find that introverted ENFJs tend to take on much of the traits of EJs. They tend to be pretty judgmental (though open minded as well), and very quickly make judgments about people. They also tend to really emphasize politeness and positive relationships with people. This doesn't mean an extroverted INFJ won't do these things but I find this is crucial to ENFJs. Just in general from my experience ENFJs have a more formulated outer world, where INFJs in the outer world come across as 'feeling things out.'

I am quick to make deductions. I'm not sure if I'm especially judgmental. I am very much not one to emphasize politeness. In fact people who are overly polite annoy me, and people who demand politeness actually make me angry. That's a pet peeve of mine. However, I am very much one to emphasize sincere positive relationships with people, which is why politeness annoys me when it is forced. It gets in the way of sincerity and the beautiful thing that happens when two people connect in a positive relationship.

I also notice that ENFJs (EJs in general) are more likely to have a hidden motive sometimes when they speak. They kind of get to the point in a roundabout way sometimes, usually to feel the person out, or perhaps they feel their idea will be misunderstood if stated directly. I don't see this as much in INFJ. When INFJ (or IJ in general) communicates it seems more direct. Actually on a side note, Soconics describes EPs/IJs as "static" personalities and EJs/IPs as 'dynamic', and this is kind of what they mean in a really abstract way.

I'm ridiculously direct, and I always have been. One of my pet peeves is being accused of having some sort of ulterior motive, hidden agenda, or implied meaning when I speak. When I say something, I mean exactly what I say. If there was additional implication, I'd have just said it. The only time I will hold anything back is when I know it will cause more harm than good, which is saying a lot because the truth is very important to me, no matter how bad it is. Even then, I won't double talk. I'll just stay silent.

I've had more than a few people in my life accuse me of this double motive thing, and I can't even grasp where it is coming from because I never do it. My ESTJ mother, and two ENFP friends do this with alarming frequency. Most importantly, the things that they accuse me of implying are so off base that I couldn't have come up with them if I had to.

I also think when they express their thoughts ENFJs tend to be pretty solid about them. They commit to their idea, and prefer to have it set, as opposed to INFJs who tend to walk the fence or be in the gray a lot with their views. I also find that ENFJs are more likely to take criticism to heart, often getting very defensive and emotional when personally 'attacked', or just shutting down completely. INFJs when criticized tend to start going into P mode as I call it where they just keep searching for more info about the criticism in an attempt perhaps to make sense of it in their heads, in essence assimilating the information before judging it.

I have learned to express myself very solidly over the years. When I was younger, I was a lot more like the younger INFJs here. I proposed things much more than I declared them. This could be my Fe growing as I've aged. I certainly walk the fence less and less as I've gotten older.

My first response to criticism is to figure out if it is correct. Only when I am convinced that it isn't, do I try to talk some sense into the person who offered it. Otherwise, I want to get to the bottom of it. What would cause them to say something like that if it's not the case? Maybe I can help them see more clearly.

Really the quickness and solidity of outer judgments I think is a good indicator. To INFJ the outer world is a dreamier place so to speak. Also, an introverted ENFJ may find it upsetting that they have trouble with making close friends, where extroverted INFJ wouldn't so much mind it preferring to keep only close friends and not worrying as much about it.

I have lived the majority of my life in a fantasy world of my own creation. I've only recently, later in life allowed myself to dwell much closer to reality as the Sensing types would refer to it. This is likely the development of my Fe, and especially Se as I've gotten older.

This is an important point to note, I moved to a new school at least once a year when I was growing up. When I say I got tired of not having any friends, I mean I got tired of not having a friend at all. Not one. All I wanted was one, maybe a few close friends. But, I realized that in order to make friends, I had to learn how to be like the people who have no problem making friends, not the people who stay lost in their heads and draw pictures all the time.

For me though the big thing is how open does the person come across in discussion. In my experience ENFJs really have made up their minds when they speak, whereas INFJs just seem more 'movable' in their position. Perhaps we could explain it as the Primary Judging/Secondary Perception vs. Primary Perception/Secondary Judging.

I'm very movable about anything I haven't made up my mind on. But, it often takes me longer to make up my mind than most. It's taken me months to somewhat make up my mind that I'm probably an INFJ. I'm still open to the possibility that I'm actually an ENFJ. I just think it is unlikely after all the discussion and pondering that I've done - despite the fact that I would rather be an ENFJ if I could, because I admire the traits that they have that I lack.

Another good way to find out is ask those you are close to. They know you well, how do they see you? Do your friends and family see someone who is extroverted or introverted. Their judgment would probably be more sound than a stranger's from the internet because they have so much more information to go off of.

I've asked a lot of people that I know over the past few months about this, pretty much anytime the subject shifts to Jungian type.

For the most part, people who don't know me very well have said they see me as an extrovert. Some of them even laugh at the possibility that I'm an introvert. However, in my close circle of friends, the reaction is the exact opposite - leaning in favor of introverted, with some laughing at the possibility of extroverted.

Interestingly enough, I've noticed that my extremely introverted friends see me as an extrovert, while my extremely extroverted friends see me as an introvert. I think this is more proof of my ambiversion theory. To each group, I look more like the other. It's only with my closest friends that I think I'm getting an accurate read, and even then there is only a lean, not a unanimous response.

I am pretty sure I'm an INFJ with a very strong Fe, which makes me seem like both an INFJ or an ENFJ, depending on the situation or perspective. In many ways I'm both, but I lean slightly in favor of INFJ.

The best reason I have to conclude this is based on something I read once, that was a brilliant measuring tool for type. A person's functions shut down in reverse order as they get tired, and the last function to go is their dominant function. When I start to get tired, the first thing to go is any desire to be competitve along with the ability to pay attention to my surroundings (Se). I become klutzy and can't deal with confusion in my environment, even a small amount of it. The next thing I lose is my ability to be analytical, and do things such as math or troubleshooting (Ti), but it goes at almost the same time as my Se, so this might be a tough call. From there, I eventually lose my ability to care much about whatever (Fe), and can only pay attention in that distant intuitive way (Ni), which is strangely sharper in those sorts of moments. I can never turn off my Ni. It even runs while I'm sleeping. Even though I've got a lot of mileage on my Fe, it doesn't start back up until I begin to wake up properly. My Ti seems to be the next thing to get going, and my Se seems to be dead last in the list of functions that go online as I get more and more awake, but again, these two things happen very close to each other so I'm not completely sure that's the case. I'm basing this on my ability to analytically be aware of losing my Se traits, and assuming it's Ti that allows me to do that. Once my Ti goes, I'm off in right brained abstraction land, and it's really hard to put into words how I am thinking. But, in that mode, I feel how things should be less and less, and just want to withdraw from the world. This is in sharp contrast to the Fe dominant people I know who can interact with large groups as they fall asleep, are perfectly comfortable sleeping in a room full of people who are talking, and are fully conversational when they wake up. The possibility of being expected to behave as such is so uncomfortable to me that the thought of it makes my skin crawl. And that is why I'm pretty sure I'm not an Fe dominant, and therefore not an ENFJ, despite how much I would love to have their powers.
 
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One thing I want to mention. Be careful about seeing the types and their direction as too solid. Not that you are doing this in your head, but I think we should use this more of a guide than an absolute. The shutting down function theory is interesting, but I would tread carefully.

"I'm ridiculously direct, and I always have been. One of my pet peeves is being accused of having some sort of ulterior motive, hidden agenda, or implied meaning when I speak. When I say something, I mean exactly what I say."


Me too, I said "'more likely' to have a hidden motive sometimes when they speak."


I acknowledge this does not happen with every ENFJ or every EJ. I am generalizing to discuss the differences.


"I've had more than a few people in my life accuse me of this double motive thing, and I can't even grasp where it is coming from because I never do it."


Well, I haven't done it so sorry if I made you uncomfortable (not that I have, don't take that as if I were a J, I like to make sure no one feels threatened or uncomfortable). I was merely pointing out some differences I have seen b/t ENFJ and INFJ.

You may want to ask them why they keep doing this to you, and tell them it is annoying you, hurting your feelings and distancing them from you.


"But, I realized that in order to make friends, I had to learn how to be like the people who have no problem making friends, not the people who stay lost in their heads and draw pictures all the time."


Well everyone does this, but acknowledge the fact this is a less than honest behavior. I am honest but I do this too, but I mean perhaps some of these attempts to fit in are at the root of other people accusing you of being dishonest when you are not. Not in any specific way mind you, but this tendency to be malleable can be detected by more 'solid' types perhaps. Just an idea.




"And that is why I'm pretty sure I'm not an Fe dominant, and therefore not an ENFJ, despite how much I would love to have their powers."


Powers, lol, what do you mean, like flying? Sounds like you have decided on INFJ, so you should appreciate INFJs 'powers'. If I had to chose, I would be INFJ, not ENFJ, you have great strengths, appreciate them for what they are. In the end, introversion is better, the only real negatives are a bit of anxiety socializing from what I have seen, I could go on and on about extrovert negatives (going on and on, overbearing, scattered (even Js), talk or act before thinking, going on and on, repeating oneself, going on and on, etc.)
 
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No one is going to fit any one type perfectly. The human mind is too dynamic and adaptive. Everyone will have elements of other types available to them.

Cognitive function preference indicates how we reflexively think, not how well we can think, nor what we think about.
 
No one is going to fit any one type perfectly. The human mind is too dynamic and adaptive. Everyone will have elements of other types available to them.

Cognitive function preference indicates how we reflexively think, not how well we can think, nor what we think about.

is it possible or normal to have a bigger preference for I functions than E functions? I been noticing a lot of people have well balanced functions such as Ni then Ne or Ni then Fe...but for me I always score higher on 3 I functions, the only one I don't score above my E functions is Si which I score almost always unused..AM I doing something wrong?

I don't get cognitive functions quite well...
 
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As an ENFP, I am starting to wonder whether I might be ENFJ too. I have always been not too far from the border of J. But now, all the recent tests I have taken; enneagram, socionics and love type; end up as ENFJ..

What it really means for me, I don't know.
Do you know what would cause such a change? and if so how does it make things different from before?
 
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