I'm starting to think I might be an ENFJ
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Hehe, mayhaps. Mayhaps indeed. Now that you mention it... yeah.
I see a lot of myself in Haku, Ashitaka, and many of the others I disagreed with as ENFJs.
Good call.
What was the name of that video you linked to? Youtube took it down.
youtube is seriously p**ing me off already with their policies
The show is named Aria. And if you're interested with INFJ representation in anime you might check 12 Kingdoms - the main character there is like dead on me.
I realized something about myself with respect to the notion
"Extroverts gain energy from being around people. Introverts are drained by being around people."
Being in large crowds drains me. Fast. I get overwhelmed in large crowds quickly. I assumed that this meant that I was an introvert. However, being around friends and talking to people, especially people that I care about, energizes me.
This is actually caused by my extroverted feeling dominance. I love people. Talking to people, interacting with them, and helping them helps me feel better. I can certainly spend a lot of time with people I care about, especially in small groups. I prefer to be around other people, and when I am alone, I can get really wound up, pensive, and stressed.
My aversion to large crowds is not due to introversion dominance. It is due to my secondary introverted intuition constantly trying to pay attention to everything, see patterns, and draw conclusions, to support my dominant Fe which cares about everyone. The problem is, my Ni is so well developed that it takes over my resources when trying to support my Fe in such a situation.
Effectively, if I get around too many people, I'll get overwhelmed by trying to focus on all of them and help them. In other words, it's because I'm an extrovert that large crowds are difficult for me. I'm fine in small groups, and prefer to be in them the majority of the time.
Interesting, and ironic, really.
"Extroverts gain energy from being around people. Introverts are drained by being around people."
Being in large crowds drains me. Fast. I get overwhelmed in large crowds quickly. I assumed that this meant that I was an introvert. However, being around friends and talking to people, especially people that I care about, energizes me.
This is actually caused by my extroverted feeling dominance. I love people. Talking to people, interacting with them, and helping them helps me feel better. I can certainly spend a lot of time with people I care about, especially in small groups. I prefer to be around other people, and when I am alone, I can get really wound up, pensive, and stressed.
My aversion to large crowds is not due to introversion dominance. It is due to my secondary introverted intuition constantly trying to pay attention to everything, see patterns, and draw conclusions, to support my dominant Fe which cares about everyone. The problem is, my Ni is so well developed that it takes over my resources when trying to support my Fe in such a situation.
Effectively, if I get around too many people, I'll get overwhelmed by trying to focus on all of them and help them. In other words, it's because I'm an extrovert that large crowds are difficult for me. I'm fine in small groups, and prefer to be in them the majority of the time.
Interesting, and ironic, really.
That is interesting...that makes a lot of sense, actually. I whole lot of sense -- I think I've seen that in practice a few times.
And that kind of seals the deal too, huh? Officially and pretty much without-a-doubt ENFJ
And that kind of seals the deal too, huh?
Officially and pretty much without-a-doubt ENFJ
No offense but I think you knew for a long time now, but you just came to terms with it recently.
That is interesting...that makes a lot of sense, actually. I whole lot of sense -- I think I've seen that in practice a few times.
And that kind of seals the deal too, huh?
Seems that way.
I've been on the fence for a long time now, that's for sure. I couldn't figure out which way I leaned, Fe or Ni. Having both functions so close to equal dominance made this difficult to discern.
I think the biggest reason I had so much trouble accepting the ENFJ prognosis was because of the internet presence of most of the ENFJs I've seen. In most cases, they're not at all concerned with spelling, grammar, or the like, and seem to share the same approach to a lack of concern with them. A clear lack of concern for Ti.
It took an epiphany to realize that I'm a rare ENFJ with a well developed Ti function, but it is my last function after Se. If I had to choose, I'd rather have my ability to be affective in the real world than my ability to be nerdy about how things work. I still don't waste my time with a lot of systems, because I know I can always find someone who knows how any given system operates. The only reason I know what I do know is curiosity and other people's expectations, and I can remember when I truly started to develop my Ti in my 20s. My Se was very well developed before then, probably too well. I got in a LOT of fights until I developed my Ti. My favorite ENFJ girlfriend hasn't developed her Ti very well yet, but is starting to do so, and hasn't punched anyone in almost a year, heh.
I should have considered that there aren't many INFJs who have won fencing, archery, and martial arts tournaments. My Se is clearly stronger than my Inferior function. But my lack of interest in team sports that don't center around a practical skill may be evidence that it's not my Dominant or Secondary.
Yeah, good, bad, and indifferent, I'm one of them. Dangit, hehe.
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So...would you say that wanting to talk to people when you're overwhelmed (not necessarily about the problem) is an extroverted thing, or is that a reaction to try to get the mind off of things?
I would assume that is a distraction as you drop to your secondary function, Fe, as a stress response, especially if you'd rather talk to people about whatever it is other than is overwhelming you. Or, it could be your Ni, or even Ne looking for something to tinker with other than the issue. In any case, it is a normal human reaction to stress.
And that brings me to my epiphany of the day...
Cognitive functions are the basis of thought, but the model that has been created to help explain them does not define them. The human mind does not fit into a nice neat little mold. It never has, and it never will. There are far too many variables, factors, and dynamic parts.
The 8 cognitive functions and 16 types as they've been defined are nothing more than the isolated extremes, personified as symbols. It is very easy for us as Ni and Fe dominant types to want to force everything to suit these notions, because that's inherently how our minds work... sorta. We've also got a T function. In fact, we've got all of the functions. While we tend to be inclined to take certain cognitive paths and approaches, we are by no means constrained by a definition.
The mind is fluid and dynamic. At best, the cognitive functions and types are a crude map to help us navigate the reality of the inner workings of our own minds. At worst, they allow us to presume things that are patently false. Do most types have a large number of similarities that seem like they could be statistical anomalies? Yes. This proves the validity of the explanation. Do all people of a given type share each of them? No. This disproves any assumption of definition.
In my case, the simple fact of the matter is this...
I have a very strong Ni and Fe. Thought patterns associated with these functions are well developed and reflexive to me.
I have a strong Fi, Ti, and Te. Thought patterns associated with these functions are well developed but learned responses for me.
I have an effective Se and Ne. I am convinced that these sorts of thought patterns are reflexive for me, but they're not nearly as well developed as some of the others I have learned to use.
And lastly, my Si ain't too shabby. I could play memory games to try to improve it, but I just don't.
This is a fairly accurate explanation of my thought processes. Does it make me an INFJ, an ENFJ, or even some other type? No. Are these descriptions congruent with the explanations of these types? Pretty much. Therefore, while they do a rather effective job of explaining me, they do not define me.
I am greater than the sum of an assumptive definition. So are all of you. No one is ever going to fit the mold of any given type. I'm not even sure if it is an ideal to strive for. Each of these types presume an inherent cognitive weakness in contrast to their strengths. Why wouldn't a person strive to be all that they could be mentally, and transcend their type, rather than look to it as justification for their shortcomings? Most importantly, why would someone deliberately try to ignore the rest of themselves, not explained by these theories?
Don't get me wrong, I'm fascinated by them. In fact, I'm so fascinated that I frequently lose my perspective, and have to remind myself of what I've just typed. I'm sharing it as part of our collective experience in relation to these the subject at hand - INFJs. And that is why I'm sharing it, in case any of you do the same thing. Our type certainly seems predisposed to do so.
While I have been trying so intently to fit myself into one of these molds, I failed to realize that I fit pretty well into at least three of them. INFJ and ENFJ are almost equally effective descriptions, but INTJ and even ENTJ in some cases are good runner ups, and there is an obvious reason for this. My individual function preferences for each of these types are strong. It is only logical that each of these type descriptions are effective in proportion to my preference with their functions. So what am I? I'm me. What is a good way to explain the way my cognitive functions operate and interact? I am an NFJ. A more accurate way? I am an INFJ, ENFJ, INTJ, with an ENTJ wing. I simply don't fit just one, and I doubt many people do.
And that brings me back to the crux of this thread, but with a lot more perspective. Taking into account that I am best described by IENFTJ, which type best describes me? I still don't know, and am starting to doubt that it really matters. MBTI type is essentially a study of the cognitive parts that comprise them, and I certainly have a strong grasp of my own. My only real curiosity is in which order do I reflexively use them?
When I am exhausted, and when I first wake up, I cannot verbally communicate. I'm just not able. However, I am FULLY aware of everything that is going on, especially what is implied and unspoken, as my mind cascades in a clarity that does not match my lack of acuity to my immediate environment. This is a tell tale sign of Ni dominance. I have some friends who are Fe dominant, and they're 'chirpy' in the morning, more concerned with politenesses than what is or is not going on in their heads, and I have to admit that until I can wake up and get other functions running, it is terribly annoying. I feel obligated to respond, and honor their expectations and feelings, but I just can't. This is probably the most compelling argument I have for Ni dominance and Fe secondary function. I feel how things should be, but my ability to do as well as my ability to make them manifest is in direct proportion to how awake I am. Of course, this could just be low blood sugar. But why do I have low blood sugar? Most likely my dominant Ni function has been burning it like low octane gasoline. Truth be told, I'd rather intuit than invoke my will.
My next point (and please don't take this the wrong way if you're an ENFJ) most of the ENFJs I've ever met are severely lacking in T function preference. In fact, they generally seem completely disinterested in understanding how things work or relate. I've never had an issue with this. I put my feelings and philosophy ahead of reason and logic far more often than I should, but I still use reason and logic. My Ti and Te are pretty solid, and from what I've seen, that tends to be the case with most INFJs, while most ENFJs have a lot of trouble typing, spelling, and composing grammar. Okay, I'll admit that I rely heavily on spell check, but I go to the bother of using it. Most ENFJs don't seem to want to even bother because they know they are getting their point across and don't want to waste the energy.
I know I recently claimed that my Se was stronger than my Ti, but I realized that the truth is that I wished my Se was stronger than my Ti. It's well developed, but my Ti wins the majority of the time, and my Ni wins all of the time. If I were an ENFJ, my Ni and Se would compete. It's not even close. Sometimes I get so lost in my head, I forget where I am. Actually, that happens a lot more than sometimes. I can pull off some pretty impressive feats of physical prowess, but I can't do them for very long, and most importantly I cheat. I use my Ni constantly when I am fencing, sparring with martial arts, and shooting. It's a ridiculous advantage.
So, while I am fully capable of using several functions as if they were my dominant, I've learned how to adapt them into service situationally. Take me to a party, and I can turn on Fe. Put a puzzle in front of me, and I can turn on Ti and even Te. Ask me to spar with you, and I can turn on Se. But, the one function that I can't turn off is Ni. I can get bored at the party, and I'll go 'hide' from everyone and get lost in my head, aka Ni. I will get tired of trying to logic my way through a problem, and my mind will drift, looking for that 'aha' solution, aka Ni. And, as mentioned, when sparring or paying attention to my surroundings because I feel threatened, I'll rely more on Ni in combination with my Se than not. I have to force myself to live in the 'real world'. My Ni is constantly trying to drag me off to some fantasy that has almost no applicable basis in reality. My Ni beats up my Se on a regular basis and makes it cry.
I guess, when it all boils down, INFJ really is the best description of me, but I have to keep that in perspective with all of my other capacities and faculties.
Sorry this is so long, but I hope this can help anyone out there who is feeling similar.
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That was insightful! I think you helped me reinforce my INFJ-ness too, actually. And I agree with you
I think you helped me reinforce my INFJ-ness too, actually. And I agree with you
This says to me that my reflexive cognitive function hierarchy is that of an INFJ or possibly ENFP. These reflexes provide me with the ability to consciously go into ENFJ or even INTJ mode. It is pretty simple now that I've got it figured out.
People don't fit a type.
Types fit people.
Edit: Now that I'm awake, I just remembered that the MBTI types of tests measure overall capacity. In other words, my overall N is stronger than my overall F, which is stronger than my overall T, which is stronger than my overall S. However, my Fe is stronger than my Ni, which is stronger than my Ti, which is stronger than my Se. I have more capacity in my extroverted functions, but my dominant function is Ni.
This makes me a reflexive ENFJ with respect to base functions, but a reflexive INFJ overall. In other words, according to the way these two theories work, I'm both, depending on perspective. Or to be specific, my best fit reflexive type is a very ambiverted and adaptable NFJ.
From there, I am able to consciously focus on my other functions, allowing me to operate as an ENFP, INFP, INTJ or even ENTJ.
But, the whole point to this exploration has been to define the order in which I use my functions, not how well developed they are. The best answer I have for this at the moment is still undecided. It seems as if Ni is my reflexive dominant, but once I am conscious, my Fe becomes dominant and my Ni then supports it.
If nothing else, this seems to strongly reinforce the likelihood of my ambiversion.
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I agree^^ however I would add that types fit people due to character and situations.
I suppose at our core we tend to react to things the way the INFJ type would react, but that doesn't discount other types or ways in us.
I created a how well do you know me test on Facebook the other day and found it funny that the majority of my good friends find me to be an extrovert, and particularly talkative in inebriated moments. I suppose this is because these are people that I find I can truly be myself with and I cherish the conversation... As for feeling more than free with them while drinking, well I guess that is because of the lowering of my guard, it helps create. My good friends get to see all my random, quirky, silly sides and they help me be truly at ease. If I am drinking around them and someone "new" comes into our mix, or even if I'm not drinking but feel especially at ease in the friend environment and a new person comes around, then I will go out of my way to make the person feel comfortable and accepted. I think this is why my close friends find me to be outgoing and extroverted and new people who don't meet me in that kind of setting find me to be introverted and shy..
Everything depends on underlying factors..
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Von Hase, I have to say that I find your constant flip-flopping rather amusing
And I believe you are ENFJ at base.
And I believe you are ENFJ at base.
Von Hase, I have to say that I find your constant flip-flopping rather amusing
And I believe you are ENFJ at base.
Thanks hun. I very much feel that I need to be able to accurately determine my own type if I'm going to help anyone else determine their own. That's why I keep trying to split hairs on the subject. One thing that is not in question is that I am very close to both INFJ and ENFJ. The difference between the two is starting to boil down to my mood.
We should hang out sometime and assess each other in person. As NF types, we read people much more accurately that way. I'd be very interested in your observations and insights.
As much as I'm an INFJ/ENFJ, with some ENFP, and INTJ traits, you've also developed a large range of cognitive functions.
However, this link definitely leads me to believe that Fe is very strong in me, but NOT my dominant function. This link really makes me believe that Ni is my dominant function. This link leads me to believe that Se is my inferior function, but the tertiary description has some merit. However, this link really lends itself to Ti as my tertiary function. When I put those into the order for an ENFJ, it sounds like what I'm capable of, and often wished I was, but am not. I've definitely developed my Fe and Se over the years to levels far closer to the ENFJ descriptions than they started. From the description, I'm pretty sure I've always been an Ni dominant.
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It would be interesting to assess each other in person. Actually, a big group-meeting of NF types would be extremely insightful.
And I wouldn't worry too much about being able to assess yourself before others; we're kind of better at that anyways. I personally am often very confused about my type, but I'm very accurate with others -- I think that's just one of the weird things about us.
For instance, although you're kind of flip-flopping, I've got a very strong feeling that you're ENFJ (or at least as strong as I could get through stagnant words and an internet connection). I could probably explain why if I thought on it, but I think so.
For instance, just the fact that you're so concerned about finding the correct role for yourself is very much an Fe, and ENFJ, trait You doubt it and run yourself around in circles, instead of allowing yourself to fall into place where you know, intuitively and deep inside, where you really fit.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I've seen more of that pattern in ENFJs, and it makes me smile a bit
And I wouldn't worry too much about being able to assess yourself before others; we're kind of better at that anyways. I personally am often very confused about my type, but I'm very accurate with others -- I think that's just one of the weird things about us.
For instance, although you're kind of flip-flopping, I've got a very strong feeling that you're ENFJ (or at least as strong as I could get through stagnant words and an internet connection). I could probably explain why if I thought on it, but I think so.
For instance, just the fact that you're so concerned about finding the correct role for yourself is very much an Fe, and ENFJ, trait
You doubt it and run yourself around in circles, instead of allowing yourself to fall into place where you know, intuitively and deep inside, where you really fit. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I've seen more of that pattern in ENFJs, and it makes me smile a bit
Maybe we should look into organizing such a gathering. I'm in the South Eastern United States.
Yeah, we're answers oriented, but outwardly focused, regardless of Fe Ni orientation.
For instance, although you're kind of flip-flopping, I've got a very strong feeling that you're ENFJ (or at least as strong as I could get through stagnant words and an internet connection). I could probably explain why if I thought on it, but I think so.
For instance, just the fact that you're so concerned about finding the correct role for yourself is very much an Fe, and ENFJ, trait
Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I've seen more of that pattern in ENFJs, and it makes me smile a bit
Yeah, I'm still on the fence on this issue. Despite realizing the big picture with respect to cognitive functions and type, I still want to determine the truth, or best answer. That's very Ni. I keep trying to reconcile the patterns into the answer, but they're not pointing at a clear truth. They're pointing at a mass of relative gray area that is making my Fe and Ti insist on more resolution. However, there might not be any.
Thanks again for your insights, hun. They are always helpful.
I think I am Ni dominant because of my need to track answers down to their truth. I do this whether I want to or not.
I think I am Fe secondary because I am not inherently a respecter of titles, or keeper of politenesses. I will respect someone once they prove worthy of their station, and this happens very quickly through my ability to read people like brochures, but not until. I'm also not one for obligatory politeness banter. In fact, it annoys me. People who insist upon forced greetings and asking how someone is get on my nerves, and the insincerity of those social games bothers me immensely. Also, I don't think I deal too much in emotional currency. I just give freely of myself whenever I can, and am as kind to others as I can be, given the relationships and situations. I don't expect anything in return except a lack of hostility from them, though I do hope for kindness. I am not as able to do this when I am especially tired.
However, on the subject of being tired and cognitive functions, one of my fellow psychology people reminded me of a theory that states all human minds shut down functions in order of how much energy is required to operate them when tired. According to the theory, everyone shuts down their F functions first, their N functions second, their T functions third, and their S functions last. While I don't agree with the theory, it does make something I've noticed apparent. The more I use certain functions, like F and N, the more sleep I need, while the more I use T and S, the less sleep I need. I'm not sure if this helps with making a distinction between a base of INFJ or ENFJ, but... I am prone to sleep bulemia as I call it. I have a lot of trouble getting to sleep, and can stay awake for days, but once I get to sleep, I can usually stay asleep for a lot more hours than a normal person would need. I've noticed that my ENFP and INFJ friends seem to need less sleep than I do, while my ENFJ and INFP friends seem to need the same amount. However, there isn't a lot of difference, and mileage may vary. When I am in INFJ mode, I seem to sleep more than when I am in ENFJ mode. Something superflous to consider since sleep seems to be tied to cognitive functions.
Well, here's how I see it, and I'm going to pull my real-life experiences with ENFJs...
ENFJs aren't always sweet creatures. In fact, they can be real hellcats at times, especially under stressful conditions. The ENFJs I know HATE insincerity, although they may not show it outwardly when they notice it. Some of them are downright edgy until they get to know someone -- it's not always an immediate respect.
I'm not trying to say I see you this way. Actually, I really don't, but a dislike of insincerity and a hesitation to just respect someone doesn't convince me of non-ENFJness.
I dunno. It's hard for me to explain why, but I really get a very strong ENFJ vibe from you. You remind me of my friend in more ways than one, and I have a very specific reaction to ENFJs (weird, I know -- I get specific reactions with a couple types, like ENTPs and INTJs) that I feel more from you than anyone else on this forum.
So yeah. I'm going to enforce an INFJ stereotype by saying I don't really know why, but I think you're ENFJ.
ENFJs aren't always sweet creatures. In fact, they can be real hellcats at times, especially under stressful conditions. The ENFJs I know HATE insincerity, although they may not show it outwardly when they notice it. Some of them are downright edgy until they get to know someone -- it's not always an immediate respect.
I'm not trying to say I see you this way. Actually, I really don't, but a dislike of insincerity and a hesitation to just respect someone doesn't convince me of non-ENFJness.
I dunno. It's hard for me to explain why, but I really get a very strong ENFJ vibe from you. You remind me of my friend in more ways than one, and I have a very specific reaction to ENFJs (weird, I know -- I get specific reactions with a couple types, like ENTPs and INTJs) that I feel more from you than anyone else on this forum.
So yeah. I'm going to enforce an INFJ stereotype by saying I don't really know why, but I think you're ENFJ.
Hehe, that made me snarf.
That's actually pretty dead on sometimes. I try to be as warm and affable to everyone as I can, and had the good fortune of a Sifu who taught me to choose kindness over aggression whenever possible. The reflexes you're describing are definitely there.
If my base reflexes are those of an ENFJ, then I've developed a lot of INFJ functions and capacities. My Ni is very strong and my S functions seem to be my weakest. But, the opposite is true.
If my base reflexes are those of an INFJ, then I've developed a lot of ENFJ functions and capacities. My Fe is very strong and my Se is not too shabby.
Of the people I know in real life, I have a handful of ENFJs and a couple of INFJs to compare myself to. I can definitely see similarities and traits of from all of them in myself, which makes sense considering my various test results. Obviously, it is difficult to objectively 'see' myself, but I'm starting to see what you mean about the ENFJ.
Looking back to childhood, I seem to remember the following growth of functions...
Ages 3-5: Freely talked to strangers, so long as I got a good vibe from them, and was generally very positive and tried very hard to be a good kid. (Fe with Ni).
Ages 5-7: Was put into Kung Fu class by my father, and did very well. Also developed uncharacteristic artistic talent for illustrating. (Ni with Se)
Ages 7-10: Did very well in school, so long as the subjects allowed for reasoning, and not rote memory. (Fe, and Se with Ti).
Ages 8-11: I went through a phase where I became the unpopular kid, and suddenly began to have a shift of functions. I had dreams that happen with alarming frequency and clarity, that always focused on people. (Ni with Fe).
From there, because my father worked for the government (not nearly in as cool a way as it sounds), we moved around alot. I attented 14 schools. At some schools, I was welcomed and quickly became popular (and developed more of my ENFJ functions). At other schools I could never get past being an outsider (and developed my INFJ functions).
I remember developing my Se as I grew up, learning to be tougher and more self defendable, focused on my surroundings as they really are.
I also remember not needing to know how things work until I was older than that, and I distinctly remember the night when that changed in my 20s, where I read an intrsuction manual for the first time in my life. Three hours later, I understood it, and slowly began to move on to others. While my T functions seemed fairly solid as a kid, I think it was my Fe that was actually carrying my ability to reason, and I didn't start on truly developing Ti until later, and Te until very recently.
I can see how I became a hybrid of the two by the time I was an adult, but I am starting to see the ENFJ basis, and development track. My need to 'get it right' does seem to surpass the standard INFJ mode of thinking.
I think you are right. My reflexive function order is ENFJ, but I've developed a lot of functions over my many years, which has given me the ability to take on type modes to adapt to situations. I'm fluent with INFJ when I need it, do a convincing ENFP impersonation, can for brief periods step into INFP mode to recalibrate myself, and have recently begun to practice INTJ and ENTJ roles. I suppose somewhere in all of that is an INTP capacity, since they try to do all of those things inherently, hehe.
I'm going to think on this a while and make sure it's right... and enforce the ENFJ stereotype.
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