I am ashamed of how little my country has done to help the Syrian refugees | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

I am ashamed of how little my country has done to help the Syrian refugees

[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] [MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION]

You can choose to go with the typical Western way of psychological self-preservation by saying that if you are powerless to do anything to make a big difference, you will choose not to care. I completely understand why people react that way and that in many cases we don't have a lot of choice. I have to do it to a certain degree myself, but there are times when I can't. I see images of children being dragged along on this journey of self-preservation and of drowning on the way. Perhaps there are areas where it is all young men but all the video footage I see show many children. I would like those children to get a chance to live and to not be subject to so much suffering. Because I don't have Syrians at my own door asking to come in doesn't mean that I have to ignore the whole thing and do nothing. What I know of is that there are Syrians at my country's door asking to come in and my government can let many more in and I will do what I can to let them know that as a Canadian citizen I want my government to do more. I can also donate to groups that are helping the refugees.

Kudos to Germany for agreeing to take in so many refugees. It will not be easy but in the end I am convinced that it will help and strengthen the country because people will remember their generosity at this time.

I care about these poor people. I'm not telling you that you have to. I'm saying that it is my choice to do what little I can to make a difference. Strong public pressure in Canada has been shown in the past to be effective in getting governments to move and accomplish things that they wouldn't have without the pressure, especially at election time. There is a lot of support in Canada to accept more refugees from Syria and you can guarantee that our political parties are listening and figuring out how to use this to get votes, because they're being asked about it in the media on a daily basis. I can't save everyone, but what I have learned in my many years of volunteer work is how good it feels and what a difference it makes to help even just a few. Those who really make a difference in the world are those that have been given a helping hand and are very grateful and want to contribute back to society. I have seen many cases of this. Some of the best people I have met are refugees and immigrants that have come to Canada and are immensely grateful to be here.
 
JJJA said:
But not as good as your counter-argument, it seems. That was a whopper.
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It wasn't a counter-argument, I was just admiring your rhetorical skills. You must've gone on a few courses, done a class or two in high school, right?
 
ezra said:
It wasn't a counter-argument, I was just admiring your rhetorical skills. You must've gone on a few courses, done a class or two in high school, right?
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What do you hope to gain from this pointless conversation?
 
JJJA said:
What do you hope to gain from this pointless conversation?
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I was thinking we could go out, have a lovely time, I'll buy you a few drinks, and I'll talk to you about how we're talking about people re-located from a 10 year war that's ravaged their country.
 
La Sagna said:
[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] [MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION]

You can choose to go with the typical Western way of psychological self-preservation by saying that if you are powerless to do anything to make a big difference, you will choose not to care. I completely understand why people react that way and that in many cases we don't have a lot of choice. I have to do it to a certain degree myself, but there are times when I can't. I see images of children being dragged along on this journey of self-preservation and of drowning on the way. Perhaps there are areas where it is all young men but all the video footage I see show many children. I would like those children to get a chance to live and to not be subject to so much suffering. Because I don't have Syrians at my own door asking to come in doesn't mean that I have to ignore the whole thing and do nothing. What I know of is that there are Syrians at my country's door asking to come in and my government can let many more in and I will do what I can to let them know that as a Canadian citizen I want my government to do more. I can also donate to groups that are helping the refugees.

Kudos to Germany for agreeing to take in so many refugees. It will not be easy but in the end I am convinced that it will help and strengthen the country because people will remember their generosity at this time.

I care about these poor people. I'm not telling you that you have to. I'm saying that it is my choice to do what little I can to make a difference. Strong public pressure in Canada has been shown in the past to be effective in getting governments to move and accomplish things that they wouldn't have without the pressure, especially at election time. There is a lot of support in Canada to accept more refugees from Syria and you can guarantee that our political parties are listening and figuring out how to use this to get votes, because they're being asked about it in the media on a daily basis. I can't save everyone, but what I have learned in my many years of volunteer work is how good it feels and what a difference it makes to help even just a few. Those who really make a difference in the world are those that have been given a helping hand and are very grateful and want to contribute back to society. I have seen many cases of this. Some of the best people I have met are refugees and immigrants that have come to Canada and are immensely grateful to be here.
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Noble. I do not make my own decisions lightly. There is a huge amount of information and understanding that goes into them. We bith agree that we would like to see an end to pain and suffering if possible. We just dont agree how to do it.
 
Eventhorizon said:
We arent talking about Bush. This has nothing to do with what Bush did or did not do. Bush has long since stopped being President so stop trying to blame the worlds problems on a person who has not had anything to do with anything since 2008. Do you get that? Its a very simple concept. Obama who said not long ago that the news stations were making ISIS out to be a bigger problem than they really were. And...here we are today. So...what exactly is your point again? Oh yes, Bush is responsible for the drought in some obscure area of the country because his evil is so far reaching. Give it a rest please.
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You are the guy who totally ignores parts of history that he doesn’t like because it makes his heros look like evil assholes.
I think Obama is an asshole too just FYI Mr. Knowledge.
Bush started the war in Iraq which destabilized the region, causing issues that we had to address in Libya (btw, if it’s all in the past then why keep bringing up Behngahzi?), Egypt, Syria so on an so forth.
We pussy-footed around with Syria for so long, even when we had clearly identified that Assad had used chemical weapons on his own people.
That supposed “red line” was crossed and our idiot people did nothing.
Don’t think for a second that I give Obama a green light and Bush harder scrutiny.
Then yes, we exacerbated the problem by downplaying ISIS.
But the fact of the matter still remains that we had a treaty with Iraq that had been signed by Bush and all his pals saying that we would be be gone by this date.
They didn’t want to be there any longer either dude…no one wanted to…it’s a fucking money pit now, just like Afghanistan.
By knowing our history, we can hopefully make better decisions the next time around something similar happens…that’s human nature.
I really don’t think that ANY of our last several Presidents were worth the strings it took to operate them.
Still haven’t seen you disprove anything that I have posted.
Just more of the same rhetoric about me personally.
 
[video=youtube;SCl6s68_sGY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SCl6s68_sGY[/video]​
 
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Skarekrow said:
You are the guy who totally ignores parts of history that he doesn’t like because it makes his heros look like evil assholes.
I think Obama is an asshole too just FYI Mr. Knowledge.
Bush started the war in Iraq which destabilized the region, causing issues that we had to address in Libya (btw, if it’s all in the past then why keep bringing up Behngahzi?), Egypt, Syria so on an so forth.
We pussy-footed around with Syria for so long, even when we had clearly identified that Assad had used chemical weapons on his own people.
That supposed “red line” was crossed and our idiot people did nothing.
Don’t think for a second that I give Obama a green light and Bush harder scrutiny.
Then yes, we exacerbated the problem by downplaying ISIS.
But the fact of the matter still remains that we had a treaty with Iraq that had been signed by Bush and all his pals saying that we would be be gone by this date.
They didn’t want to be there any longer either dude…no one wanted to…it’s a fucking money pit now, just like Afghanistan.
By knowing our history, we can hopefully make better decisions the next time around something similar happens…that’s human nature.
I really don’t think that ANY of our last several Presidents were worth the strings it took to operate them.
Still haven’t seen you disprove anything that I have posted.
Just more of the same rhetoric about me personally.
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No sorry I dont ignore just to ignore. I ignore whats irrelevant. I dont need to disprove what has never happened. Last time. Bush stopped bieng President in 08. ISIS rose to power because Obama ignored it either deliberately, out of not caring or ignorance. Thats simple fact simple history.
You have proven you cant think for yourself. You are exactly the type of person that needs to be ignored when it comes to world events and what its going to take to fix it.
The good thing about our... communication is that has become clear to me. So keep listening to your liberal brain washing, keep lying to yourself and keep building that fantasy world of yours.

Good luck.

Ill add you have some good ideas outside of political and societal economic structure. Pursuing alternative energy sources, different ways of thinking about things that can lead to different ways of seeing them are all things humanity needs. So Id hope to see you focus your energy in that direction.

And ...the arguments you are trying to use on me...Im the guy that does x or that. Use those arguments where they belong. Use them on yourself. Id bet these are things that other people have said specifically about you and that you are rehashing to say about me. Its a classic left side move. If someone says you are clueless just say the same thing about them. The difference is its true about one but not the other.
 
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Eventhorizon said:
No sorry I dont ignore just to ignore. I ignore whats irrelevant. I dont need to disprove what has never happened. Last time. Bush stopped bieng President in 08. ISIS rose to power because Obama ignored it either deliberately, out of not caring or ignorance. Thats simple fact simple history.
You have proven you cant think for yourself. You are exactly the type of person that needs to be ignored when it comes to world events and what its going to take to fix it.
The good thing about our... communication is that has become clear to me. So keep listening to your liberal brain washing, keep lying to yourself and keep building that fantasy world of yours.

Good luck.
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Show me some proof man.
I have asked you for proof like many, many, times now discrediting what I am saying.
All you do is pass personal judgements on me.
I’m not saying Obama isn’t to blame for a huge shit-load of the issue, but the issue was started with the pull out treaty.
I can’t think for myself? What does even mean EH?
I can say that exact same thing about you…not thinking for yourself, and you are the type that should be ignored…blah, blah, etc.
Because I can play the who has a bigger cock game if that’s what you want…but we may want to do that in the PM section sexy.
Jesus man….I swear…you get my vote for the first person who will go postal on the forum hahahaha.
 
Skarekrow said:
Show me some proof man.
I have asked you for proof like many, many, times now discrediting what I am saying.
All you do is pass personal judgements on me.
I’m not saying Obama isn’t to blame for a huge shit-load of the issue, but the issue was started with the pull out treaty.
I can’t think for myself? What does even mean EH?
I can say that exact same thing about you…not thinking for yourself, and you are the type that should be ignored…blah, blah, etc.
Because I can play the who has a bigger cock game if that’s what you want…but we may want to do that in the PM section sexy.
Jesus man….I swear…you get my vote for the first person who will go postal on the forum hahahaha.
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Wtf? There is no need of proof. Obama is President NOW. Bush is not President NOW. Bush is irrelevant to whats going on and transpiring and has been for the past 6+ years. You conservative haters still blame Bush for the fact Obama has failed this country and it makes me... im just tired of dealing with it. Its so insane.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Wtf? There is no need of proof. Obama is President NOW. Bush is not President NOW. Bush is irrelevant to whats going on and transpiring and has been for the past 6+ years. You conservative haters still blame Bush for the fact Obama has failed this country and it makes me... im just tired of dealing with it. Its so insane.
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I’m pretty sure I blamed them both...
I’m not saying Obama isn’t to blame for a huge shit-load of the issue, but the issue was started with the pull out treaty.
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Bush, Obama….they are basically the same BS on different sides of the same coin….not being flipped in the air by the voice of people I might add.
I can blame whomever is responsible for the current state of things…just like Clinton fucked us over on NAFTA and helped to crash our economy by his bank deregulation that was later even more deregulated thanks to Bush. So you see how the past IS actually relevant.
I’m not just picking on Bush, but when you only blame Obama YOU are the ignorant sounding one.
And speaking of the word “ignorant” I take that back…I’m sure you are very smart in a lot of very interesting things EH, just as I am not as ignorant as you seem to assume I am.
Can we please get back on topic now that the penis sizing has commenced and concluded?
Fucking eh.
 
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The fact of the matter more can be done but our society is apathetic, that is why I can appreciate even disturbing images.
We all have our own little bubble around us that we live in and certain things have shaped that, shaped who you are, how you react, what emotions you feel/don’t feel….etc.
I know there is a whole lot of politics flying around, between borders, etc.
No doubt there is a strain on the countries that are getting the majority of the refugees.
All I’m saying is what happened to the “Jerry Lewis Telethon”?
People stopped caring….people stopped calling?
It’s not because Jerry got old….but because we are told what is important in the world by those who have something to benefit by not necessarily telling the truth all the time.
If the US can mobilize troops around the world for war, why in fuck can’t we mobilize them for humanitarian efforts….and yes, I realize some are mobilized…but (the US in particular) seem to send the bare minimum.

See this is where my politics may differ from yours…I don’t mind my tax dollars going to such things…we have done incredible things when nations work together, and yet, I just see discord.
Are those running the show so fucking incompetent?
 
JJJA said:
It is not as simple as that.
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When human costs get entangled with politics of course it's not, specially when there's bitch fighting between the countries (AKA USA and Russia/Putin and the whole who pulls the trigger thing, by example) and the whole media circus . Migration in that area and at this point is not regulated, that's why it's an emergency, and no one can force syrians to stay there, it's common sense, not an unrealistic act of goodwill.
 
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I'm not politically minded so if I don't have the facts of the current matter correct then feel free to correct me, I simply get my info from the news in the morning before catching a train to work.

I feel like what's happening in this thread is pretty much a reflection of what the issue is outside in the real world. Everyone's so quick to point the finger at a particular person or country and say its their fault and bring up problems that have arisen from back in the past but the fact of the matter is this issue is here and now and staring us in the face.

Do I think what the US is doing is ridiculous? Yes, considering how large a country it is. It's the world super power and reportedly the land of the free so for god sake get to it.
Do I think think blame solely lies with them? God no. I just think that if every country took in a proportion based on land mass, population, GDP etc. then this would be a non-issue.
I believe if we're going to look disappointingly at anyone then we'd have to start looking to the middle east who I heard this morning aren't taking any refugees. And lets not forget Asia. Asian countries just pushing boats away from their boarders with no assistance dooming all passengers on board etc.

I feel like I'm probably over simplifying this but then I also want to bring up the prospect that this isn't going to be forever. The UN is looking at the refugees coming into the EU up until 2020 but this crisis may be resolved by then and then a lot of people may be looking to return home. In any case I feel like these people should be taken into our countries that are better off where possible and an enormous effort should be made to integrate/assimilate them into our cultures.

But I dunno, what do you think?
 
Breeze said:
I'm not politically minded so if I don't have the facts of the current matter correct then feel free to correct me, I simply get my info from the news in the morning before catching a train to work.

I feel like what's happening in this thread is pretty much a reflection of what the issue is outside in the real world. Everyone's so quick to point the finger at a particular person or country and say its their fault and bring up problems that have arisen from back in the past but the fact of the matter is this issue is here and now and staring us in the face.

Do I think what the US is doing is ridiculous? Yes, considering how large a country it is. It's the world super power and reportedly the land of the free so for god sake get to it.
Do I think think blame solely lies with them? God no. I just think that if every country took in a proportion based on land mass, population, GDP etc. then this would be a non-issue.
I believe if we're going to look disappointingly at anyone then we'd have to start looking to the middle east who I heard this morning aren't taking any refugees. And lets not forget Asia. Asian countries just pushing boats away from their boarders with no assistance dooming all passengers on board etc.

I feel like I'm probably over simplifying this but then I also want to bring up the prospect that this isn't going to be forever. The UN is looking at the refugees coming into the EU up until 2020 but this crisis may be resolved by then and then a lot of people may be looking to return home. In any case I feel like these people should be taken into our countries that are better off where possible and an enormous effort should be made to integrate/assimilate them into our cultures.

But I dunno, what do you think?
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I don’t think that’s oversimplified at all.
It just shows the lack of willingness by the world’s powers to do anything when they have nothing to gain.
That’s what is really sad.
I think the majority of people do really want to help, do really feel terrible at how this is all playing out.
Yes…there are some more to blame than others, but you are right, the human aspect should in an ideal world supersede politics.
 
Read This Before The Mainstream Media Uses A Drowned Refugee Boy To Start Another War

Submitted by Dan Sanchez via TheAntiMedia.org,

​
A baby boy turned to flotsam.
Washed up on the shore, face down in the mud.
His family, refugees from Syria’s civil war, had tried to reach Greece, but their over-crowded raft overturned in the Mediterranean Sea and he drowned along with his brother and mother.

The viral image of 3-year-old Aylan Kurdi’s lifeless little body on a Turkish beach has shaken the conscience of the West and wrenched America’s attention to the refugee crisis now rocking Europe.



​
Newsflash to the oblivious citizenry of the power-projecting “free world”: this is what war looks like.
This times ten million.

That which is mere “foreign policy” to you and your government is desperation and death to those on the receiving end of it.
Children just as innocent and precious as Aylan are being driven into the sea in Libya, incinerated by drone in Pakistan, or starved to death in Yemen all the time, and it is all on your dime.

And every single instance creates a sight just as achingly forlorn and horrifically tragic as the one above, even if it isn’t photographed and seen by millions.

Aylan drowned in the arms of his father, who had been desperately trying to keep his head above water.
The prelude to the disaster probably looked something like this photo of another Syrian refugee family.

It actually shows an arrival and not a departure.
Still, especially for anyone with young children, the picture is a punch in the gut.

It only takes a shred of empathy to instantly imagine how the father must feel.
Overwhelmed and near the end of his rope.

His daughter’s arms wrapped around his neck.
His son’s face buried in his chest.

Both looking to him for protection and provision he ultimately might not be able to give.
It is no wonder this visceral photograph has also gone viral.



​

Another newsflash: this is what war displacement looks like, both in the sea and on dry land.
What you see in his face is the anguish felt right this very moment by the many millions of mothers and fathers driven from their homes and sources of livelihood throughout the countries shattered by weapons from the West: Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Palestine,Ukraine, and more.

It is a shame that the curiosity, empathy, and imagination of most are so stunted that they require such vivid imagery as this showing up in their news feeds to feel concern for the havoc wreaked by their governments’ policies.

And then they are stirred, not enough to actually learn a damn thing about it, but only enough to be manipulated into demanding– or at least countenancing – more of the very same kind of intervention that caused the tragedies in the first place.

Warmongers in government and the media are perversely but predictably trying to conscript Aylan’s corpse into their march to escalation.

They are contending that Aylan died because the West has not intervened against Syria’s dictator Bashar al-Assad, and that it must do so now to spare other children the same fate.

Um, no, Aylan’s family were Kurdish refugees from Kobani who had to flee that city when it was besieged, not by Assad, but by Assad’s enemy: ISIS.

And ISIS is running rampant in that part of Syria only because the US-led West and its regional allies have given them cover by supporting and arming the jihadist-dominated uprising against Assad.

The West has been intervening in Syria heavily since at least 2012.
Indeed, it is Western intervention that has exacerbated and prolonged the conflict, which has now claimed a quarter of a million lives.

But because much of the intervention has been covert and by proxy, it has received little media coverage and public attention.
So the “blowback” that results from it, including Aylan’s death, can be conveniently blamed on alleged “non-intervention” and used to justify more overt and direct intervention.

In this way, governments have long exploited public obliviousness and gullibility to get their wars.

Moreover, if the hawks were to get their wish of seeing Assad finally overthrown and his forces dismantled, there would then be zero local resistance to ISIS, Syrian Al Qaeda, and the other jihadist groups completely overrunning Syria.

As bad as the refugee crisis is now, just imagine what it will be like as all of Syria’s many religious minorities desperately flee from these hyper-violent and hyper-sectarian Sunnis, armed to the teeth with Western weapons.

Far from preventing such tragedies as Aylan’s drowning, intervening further would only produce many more.
You are troubled by that picture you saw on Facebook.

Good.

It means your heart hasn’t been completely hardened by nationalistic and xenophobic indoctrination.

But don’t let it make you susceptible to war party manipulation.
And don’t just “raise awareness” of it by liking and sharing the tragedy and then forgetting about it in a month.

To truly contribute to justice for Aylan, work to set things right.
And the first step to setting things right is understanding.

Make it a project to learn about the role of foreign intervention in the Syrian Civil War that is creating so many of these refugees, and in the wars roiling the Middle East, North Africa, and South Asia in general.

And once you’ve acquired understanding for yourself, work to spread it to others.





 
[video=youtube;C55HKEtJChI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C55HKEtJChI[/video]​
 
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Not everyone in this world is apathetic.

Hungarians bring their shoes to the Budapest train station for arriving migrants.

(Photo by Eleanor Beardsley)​
 
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