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Shai Gar
I disagree that the fashion industry is at fault.
That's like saying porn is at fault for mens sexual insecurity about penis size. I'm not insecure about mine.
high fashion models are too thin
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That's like saying porn is at fault for mens sexual insecurity about penis size. I'm not insecure about mine.
Not every choice we make is healthy.
We can see both sides of the spectrum - it's a healthy state of mind to rejoice in your body *and* keep it healthy. Body type is immaterial, as long as you eat the food you need to sustain your body health, and keep yourself on a routine that allows you to engage/maintain your muscle and bone structure health. Some will need more food. Some less. Some will be considered "fat" by their current society, some "thin." But where things get out of control, as previous posters commented, is when the mind/spirit is disproportionate to body truth. And that can come from media, from TV, from bosses, from "well-meaning" friends and family, and so forth. But if you weigh yourself on a scale and you're so severely out of whack with height/muscle ratios to the point that your health suffers, then there is a problem and you need help. And you need an outside source helping you rediscover what healthy is. You don't need someone telling you how "bad" you are, but you do need someone telling you that your method of taking care of yourself is failing, and you're dying with it.
We can see both sides of the spectrum - it's a healthy state of mind to rejoice in your body *and* keep it healthy. Body type is immaterial, as long as you eat the food you need to sustain your body health, and keep yourself on a routine that allows you to engage/maintain your muscle and bone structure health. Some will need more food. Some less. Some will be considered "fat" by their current society, some "thin." But where things get out of control, as previous posters commented, is when the mind/spirit is disproportionate to body truth. And that can come from media, from TV, from bosses, from "well-meaning" friends and family, and so forth. But if you weigh yourself on a scale and you're so severely out of whack with height/muscle ratios to the point that your health suffers, then there is a problem and you need help. And you need an outside source helping you rediscover what healthy is. You don't need someone telling you how "bad" you are, but you do need someone telling you that your method of taking care of yourself is failing, and you're dying with it.
They are the physical representation of sociopathy becoming the norm. 
They are the abused Jews of today's Nazis that we've become.
Undereating and overeating are major problems, but the solution isn't: "do that or you're bad!", which is usually applied. Not surprisingly these two can go together, so then people talk about eating problem (as if it's cholera).
They are the abused Jews of today's Nazis that we've become.Undereating and overeating are major problems, but the solution isn't: "do that or you're bad!", which is usually applied. Not surprisingly these two can go together, so then people talk about eating problem (as if it's cholera).
But not everyone is the same. Some people are very secure, others aren't (probably due to different environments growing up), and these industries mess with the people who half low self-esteem (possibly unintentionally, but I'm sure they must have some kind of idea of what they're doing).
Think of teenagers. When have you heard anyone described as 'secure' when they're a teen? I've never met one, nor heard of one - and if the industry causes (triggers it, encourages it, causes peer pressure etc.) them to get one of these disorders it could destroy any chance they have of becoming secure.
Haha, this is like arguing with my sister ^^
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Shai Gar
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Shai Gar
You're misconstruing my words. I'm not arguing that women are not responsible for how they maintain their bodies. What I'm saying is: who are you to blame them for it? Who are you to exact your body snark against them? If you don't like the thinness of women who choose to work as runway models, blame the haute couture fashion industry for creating such a ridiculous beauty standard. Don't blame the women who choose to participate in it. Blaming women for how they choose to maintain their bodies does nothing to help their body image, self-esteem, whether they're a runway model or not.
If they're anorexic or bulimic, yes, treatment would be the best thing for them. But, again, who are we to assume they have these mental disorders? We can't assume simply by looking at their bodies, and doing so asserts our assumption over them, without giving them the autonomy to speak about their bodies in their own words.
In addition, if they truly have an eating disorder and admit to it, who are we to condemn them for choosing not to get treatment? Again, our bodies are our own and no one, aside from each individual's private doctor, should tell that person what they should and shouldn't do with their body.
I kinda don't get the claim of "Fashion is run by gay people" because; if it is so, and they all want to turn the models into 14 year old boys (which they like), why design gowns and dresses?
What, after claims of homosexuality and pedophilia, it's now crossdressing? /deadpan
But after saying that, I do agree that most of the fashion models are...starving. Or being pushed into starving. It pushes unhealthy obsession -and- suspends the non-fashion people's disbelief. I mean, most of the clothes are haute couture. a.k.a mostly not impractical (except to Lady Gaga, perhaps), tacky, and looked good only in the runway. And then they have to put implausibly thin people?
The idea of 'haute couture attractive' and 'common people attractive' appears to be different. I've heard that one of the practical reason they're starving the models as they are (unlike, say, swimsuit models. Or pinup models) is because they're easier to dress / more suitable with various kind of dresses. But of course, I don't know the truth.
What, after claims of homosexuality and pedophilia, it's now crossdressing? /deadpan
But after saying that, I do agree that most of the fashion models are...starving. Or being pushed into starving. It pushes unhealthy obsession -and- suspends the non-fashion people's disbelief. I mean, most of the clothes are haute couture. a.k.a mostly not impractical (except to Lady Gaga, perhaps), tacky, and looked good only in the runway. And then they have to put implausibly thin people?
The idea of 'haute couture attractive' and 'common people attractive' appears to be different. I've heard that one of the practical reason they're starving the models as they are (unlike, say, swimsuit models. Or pinup models) is because they're easier to dress / more suitable with various kind of dresses. But of course, I don't know the truth.
I concur. But the only person in my life who is allowed to comment thusly on my body and how I take care of it is my doctor. NOT anyone else in my life. My body is not their property to comment on.
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If you do something to yourself (completely regardless of the reasons to why, or who you even are, i.e. men or women), it is indeed your fault and you have no one else to blame but yourself. However in the case of mental illness that is slightly different, but that can be changed. You can approach it with compassion. However that does not change the fact that it is the individuals fault. I have my own mental problems that have caused issues in my life, and I have absolutely no one to blame for it but myself.
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Shai Gar
Haute Fashion has Male Models too.
Men aren't as affected by this.
Do I have a body like this? No.
Do I have an eating disorder because of this? No.
Do I blame the fashion industry for this? No.
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Shai Gar
It's not the puppies fault for pissing on the carpet, that's what puppies do.
Womens rights, pushed back 75 years.
I'm glad you have a healthy sense of your physical being. But comparing women's body issues to men is not going to fly with me. If you haven't grown up as a woman in western society, it's very unlikely that you'll understand the pressures women have to contend with that are very different and much more constant than the pressures men have to contend with. I certainly agree that men have pressures and I don't dismiss them. Women have simply many more to contend with and on nearly a constant basis. Men...not so much.
Now, you could certainly try to understand what it's like to grow up as a woman in western culture and maybe try to empathize a little, but something tells me that would be asking just a little too much of you, Shai Gar.
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Shai Gar
So you're aware, I am a very old fashioned man.
The type of woman I respect is a Spartan Woman. I like women of strength and power, women who take charge of themselves and their responsibility.
The type of woman I respect is a Spartan Woman. I like women of strength and power, women who take charge of themselves and their responsibility.
Either the fashion industry forces women to behave in a way they don't want to, or women chose to behave in such a way. You can't have women chose, and then blame someone else.
Granted, these women are possibly highly influenced by society, but they still chose to behave in such a manner. They aren't being tied to a stick and starved (and if they are, that's a completely different matter) These women chose to treat their bodies in such extreme ways. Are they pressured or influenced? Of course, but the choice is ultimately theirs. Blaming the industry won't change anything. The industry sells this ideal, and people gobble it up. These women need help, and they need the freedom to chose to do as they wish. They need support, but blaming the industry does nothing for the women. It makes them victims, when they have control over their bodies. I hate seeing it, and they need help available to them.
With a very young man's sense of what women "should" look like and that they should be blamed for the choices they make with their own bodies.
Consider that it can become very difficult to take responsibility for your body if you're faced with constant blame for what you choose to do with it.
Again, I'm not arguing that many fashion models are not unnaturally thin. I agree that they are. But what good does it do for us to blame them for what they choose to do with their bodies? What good does it do for them to hear other people constantly judging them and asserting their own assumptions over their bodies? What good does it do for younger women to constantly hear conflicting messages about their own bodies with all the body snark we give to women on a constant basis? Be thin...but not too thin. Be tan...but not too tan. Don't be a "disgusting fat pig," but don't be a "poster girl for Auschwitz" either. You have to be "curvy" in the right places (as if there's a "right place" and a "wrong place" on people's bodies...ha!), and fit into the socially accepted body standard. ...I mean, come on! When are we going to draw the line on all this harmful commentary and blaming and acknowledge that women have the autonomy to make their own decisions about their bodies?
You keep making this assertion without providing any proof (to my knowledge) other than you don't know what it feels like.
Anything more concrete than that?