high fashion models are too thin

[Shai Gar]

EVERY group in this planet has its ills, and they are no better or no worse. I am a gay male. I have had many fellow gay men say our "plight" is one of the worse out of all the "groups" out there. I disagree, all groups have their own issues and problems, and no group is better or worse because of it. Homosexuals issues are no worse or better then any other groups races, or sexes.

Yup, being a white atheist male in a largely agnostic/atheist nation dominated by white people, without a history of slavery or over the top abuse of over races to make us feel bad about being white, in a nation that didn't suffer in the recent recession... yup, my plight is baaaad.

Oh and thin can be healthy.

Thin isn't inherently healthy
Fat isn't healthy.

It's fitness that's healthy.

 

[slant]

I have to disagree with you. When you're discussing women's bodies and blaming women for the choices they make about their own bodies, it becomes a feminist issue.

Here is what I don't understand.

If I cut my hair, alright, who do I blame for cutting my hair when that was MY decision with MY body to cut my hair? If I don't like my haircut and someone tells me 'well you shouldn't blame women for the choices they make with their body' should I say 'this is a feminist issue and you are sexist for saying that'. It makes absolutely no logical sense. Women ARE responsible for the choices they make to their own body whether they like it or not. If I choose to stop eating it isn't my Uncle's fault or my dog's fault or the president's fault or my barbecue's fault or my favorite bacon company's fault because they stopped producing the only meat I ate; It is MY fault. ME ME ME. Women need to be responsible for their actions. Feminism actually encourages this.

How? It used to be that whatever a woman did, the man was responsible. Want to know why? Because women were property. But when women established RIGHTS, the RIGHTS, came with RESPONSIBILITY. They could no longer blame anyone for their actions or choices but THEMSELVES. Because a CHOICE is a CHOICE. You are not saying someone is forcing a women by gunpoint not to eat- that wouldn't be a choice. A CHOICE is when someone consciously decides 'well, I will or will not CHOOSE to do this particular thing'.

I work as a school counselor, which I've done for many years.

This in itself is a fallacy. This is appeal to authority. 'I work as a school counselor therefore I have more experience in the area therefore I know more than you and I am correct.' Actually, you're wrong. Having experience as a school counselor does nothing to build up the validity of your argument.

I've seen first hand what the pressures of society and the popular media can do to girls and young women. I experienced them myself growing up. I also know my younger brother didn't experience any of it. He faced no double standards about his sexual choices, while I did. He faced no double standards about his looks and appearance, while I did. He faced no double standards about speaking his mind, while I constantly did. Even now, I'm sure there are people on this forum who see me as a "bitch" for choosing to speak my mind, while they wouldn't think anything of the kind about a guy who chooses to do the same.

Wait--- how do YOU know what your younger brother did and did not experience? Did you even read the boy anorexia website? Men who have eating disorders and consistently ignored because people don't believe they can have them and on top of that society doesn't deem it fit for men to have eating disorders. I am not implying your brother had an eating disorder, but I am saying you would most likely not know if he did because they go unreported. And believe it or not 70%-60% of all binge eating disorder are cases of MEN who have them.

Anyway the point is, by stating that men do not and will never know what it is like to grow up as a female in this culture, you have put yourself in a box. By the same logic, you do not know how it is like and will never know what it is like to grow up as a man in this culture. In conclusion, for you to even claim you know that your brother didn't do through the same that you did is ridiculous. You DONT know, and you will never know. How do you like them apples?

Why is it that there are so many more commercials for women than there are for men? Why are women always the ones featured in laundry and household supply commercials? Why are their so many more commercials for womens' hygiene products than there are for men? Hair removal, sunless tanning, diet industry, etc.? And consider the number of women who fall within the typical media-standard definition of "hot" and are featured in ads for men. The beer ads, car ads, ads for men's hygiene products. If you want to sell something to a heterosexual man, apparently you need to include a woman with a socially acceptable body type.

I'll bounce this question back at you: why is it that there are so many commercials that imply men are 'stupid', the depict men as sitting on the couch watching the football game? Why are there so many commercials about sports directed towards men? Why are there so many commercials about home fitness workout systems for men to get buff, directed at, you guessed it, men? Consider the amount of teenage men who get hooked on steroids trying to achieve that impossible sculpted body that all of the hot celebrity males have. Consider how in commericials, either men are sold as sculted, 100% beefcakes or fat, lazy, stupid guys who only care about sports and sex?

Until you've taken the time to examine and think about these issues, I understand that they can be easy to miss. But I've been on this planet for a few more years than you have and I've done my homework. I speak from experience. Absorb some history and perhaps it will begin to make sense to you, too.

The fallacy in this is, 'I am older therefore I know more than you' as well as 'If you researched as much as I have about the subject you would agree with me'. Both are wrong conclusions.

1. Age does not equate knowledge. This can be proven by considering how many younger people know how to do complicated things with computers that take people in their 60's ages to learn.

2. You are not licensed in the field that you are arguing against me, therefore you have no way to prove that you know more than I do. Arguing that you somehow know more about the topic is only valid if you have a formal education in the area. You clearly do not, and I clearly do not, therefore, it is fair game.

 

[Reon]

I have to disagree with you. When you're discussing women's bodies and blaming women for the choices they make about their own bodies, it becomes a feminist issue.

I work as a school counselor, which I've done for many years. I've seen first hand what the pressures of society and the popular media can do to girls and young women. I experienced them myself growing up. I also know my younger brother didn't experience any of it. He faced no double standards about his sexual choices, while I did. He faced no double standards about his looks and appearance, while I did. He faced no double standards about speaking his mind, while I constantly did. Even now, I'm sure there are people on this forum who see me as a "bitch" for choosing to speak my mind, while they wouldn't think anything of the kind about a guy who chooses to do the same.

Sexual choices? My mother hated nearly every girl I brought over and thought she was a slut. If she's not black, I'm selling out and I think being gay would bring up a whole nother branch of fury towards me.
Looks and appearances: I never dressed preppy enough, never dressed gangsta enough, never dressed skater enough (I skated, that's not something black people do), never dressed well enough. I couldn't afford nice clothes and people (Generally women actually) made comments about that. I was too fat or I looked too skinny, and I didn't have the right hair cut. If it's not what people expected then people didn't like it. I couldn't lift enough, I wasn't confident enough, I was overtly confident, I was too strong, I was too passive, I was too logical, I was too emotional. I spent too much time on myself, I spent too much time on girls. It's quite the list really.
Speaking my mind: If I didn't speak my mind the right way I come off as arrogant and self centered, completely logical and yet irrational. And if I speak about my feelings? I'll be laughed at generally.

Perhaps the game has changed? I've seen many boys and men dealing with these issues. I'd doubt they would tell you though, you're a woman. No one tends to like talking about gender issues

Why is it that there are so many more commercials for women than there are for men? Why are women always the ones featured in laundry and household supply commercials? Why are there so many more commercials for womens' hygiene products than there are for men? Hair removal, sunless tanning, diet industry, etc.? And consider the number of women who fall within the typical media-standard definition of "hot" and are featured in ads for men. The beer ads, car ads, ads for men's hygiene products. If you want to sell something to a heterosexual man, apparently you need to include a woman with a socially acceptable body type.

Stereotypes. And women who live in the household tend to buy the items they are selling because the household needs them. But women can't overcome stereotypes? Even still, the commercials centered on women often makes a comment on men. You never see a man doing the laundry because he can't do it right. Your stupid man can't keep himself clean, febreeze! Women can set the standard of beauty for themselves, you show interest with your dollars. If you keep paying for all of these inane things such at hair removal and sunless tanning, then do you really expect people to stop producing that merchandise? (And maybe it's just me, but I don't really tend to care about that) Also, some women legitementaly like doing those things for some odd reason. My mom has tons of body products for the simple reason that she likes using them, she really isn't trying to impress anyone anymore at her age.

Until you've taken the time to examine and think about these issues, I understand that they can be easy to miss. But I've been on this planet for a few more years than you have and I've done my homework. I speak from experience. Absorb some history and perhaps it will begin to make sense to you, too.

Not trying to be a dick but you can't state that your anecdotal evidence is immensely more truthful than everyone elses especially when people are disagreeing with you. Also, appealing to age as authority is kinda bleh to do. Nenyways, I tend to lean that women might have more problems than men but I'm not sure if it's to such a great proportion as you're describing it. You also haven't been a man in today's society which actually is a pretty hard thing to do.

 

[Norton]

At some point in life, a person, male or female, has to take responsibility for life as a individual and try to recognize for himself or herself what is healthy and good, and what needs to be done to achieve the goals he or she chooses. Okay, I truly believe that women still have it more difficult than men in this world, even though many things have improved over the last 30 years. You can complain and be bitter, or you can go out and fight the good fight and make a difference. Change happens more from doing than talking. This is what I've observed about the women in my family all of whom are strong, smart, determined, and successful. Particularly effective is the tenacity and strong work ethic with which they have been inculcated.

You can complain all you want about the fashion industry but, really, there is not much an individual can do to change things. What you can do is ignore it and the comparatively small number of people who willfully choose to disfigure themselves through anorexia to be models, and direct your attention to more important things. Like alleviating and preventing starvation and famine among people who cannot willfully choose to eat more because of poverty, geography, and/or dysfunctional governments. Or, start a business that employs people to do good work and make useful things, thereby accumulating wealth and power you can use directly to do good and indirectly to influence others (e.g., politicians, NGO's) to do good.

Sure, there are a lot of bad things about how the fashion industry influences people to think and feel about their bodies. This is particularly true for people who focus too much time and attention on themselves and worry about how they look, what people think of them, and what they wear. Functional clothing is a need, fashionable clothing is a want. However, regardless of fashion, the best thing you can do to look good is to eat good healthy food in optimum quantities and exercise (including having fun and playing sports). Being too thin or too fat, regardless of one's sex, is unhealthy. So, if you're reasonably intelligent, you see what the fashion industry is selling (literally and figuratively-ha ha) and you say, "this is bullshit, I'm not buying it." Work on your self-discipline, which is always a good thing to do--it pays dividends. Then, go swim a mile, run a few thousand meters, or ski a few slopes. Have fun, and then expend your energy doing something useful, regardless of the difficult hurdles society places in your path. But also important is, don't be a victim because you can choose not to be.

 

[Peppermint]

I'll bounce this question back at you: why is it that there are so many commercials that imply men are 'stupid', the depict men as sitting on the couch watching the football game? Why are there so many commercials about sports directed towards men? Why are there so many commercials about home fitness workout systems for men to get buff, directed at, you guessed it, men? Consider the amount of teenage men who get hooked on steroids trying to achieve that impossible sculpted body that all of the hot celebrity males have. Consider how in commericials, either men are sold as sculted, 100% beefcakes or fat, lazy, stupid guys who only care about sports and sex?

Indeed. In fact, Google Scholar reveals many studies done on subject.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1323298/

Conclusions: Muscle dysmorphia is an emerging phenomenon in society. Pressure on males to appear more muscular and lean has prompted a trend in the area of psychobehavioral disorders often likened to anorexia and bulimia nervosa. Athletes are particularly susceptible to developing body image disorders because of the pressures surrounding sport performance and societal trends promoting muscularity and leanness.

http://heldref-publications.metapre...al,61,78;linkingpublicationresults,1:119928,1

Much of the existing research on disordered eating has centered on the drive for thinness, which is most commonly observed in girls and women. The male standard of bodily attractiveness, however, is bigger, bulkier, and more muscular. Are boys and men motivated to be big and muscular in the same way that girls and women are motivated to be thin? The authors constructed a 15-item survey and administered it to 197 adolescents. The findings showed that the drive for muscularity measure displayed good reliability; that individuals high in the drive were more likely to be boys who were trying to gain both weight and muscle mass; that the drive was related to poor self-esteem and higher levels of depression among boys, but not among girls; and that the drive for muscularity was relatively unrelated to the drive for thinness.

http://www.afboard.com/library/CulturalExpectationsofMuscularityinMen.pdf

http://www.thebody.com/content/art33108.html

Both genders face expectations about their body and behavior.
What about the boys who get beaten by their fathers because they are too sensitive, not dominant, assertive and rise to be leaders? What about men who are encouraged to be promiscuous?
What about the emotional damage they face?

With what evidence can you claim which gender has it worse? Personal experiences don't hold any water.

 

[thirtiesgirl]

That was then, this is now. Times have changed.

Um, no they haven't. Have you lived in the world today?

I would like to point out, that nearly 90% of the people who have joined in this disucssion have disagreed with what you have said. Your opinion is very very far to the left and quite extremist, and you have refused to listen or concider what anyone else has said. It's instantly regarded as wrong because "we don't understand". Your catagorizing women as deserving special and better treatment and you demand it from everyone else. Well, that is really just as bad as treating them unfairly.

Discussing women's right to not have their bodies commented on by everyone else in society is not demanding "special treatment." It's demanding the same treatment that men experience on a much more frequent basis. To give you one example: men's bodies are not judged on the same scale that women's are. Men write clauses in pre-nuptial agreements, stating that they can divorce their wives if the wife gains weight, because as we all know, a woman's body instantly becomes "socially unacceptable" if she's fat, right? Isn't that how society judges fat people? (And I hear you, fat men. Yes, I know you experience plenty of judgment, too. But not nearly to the extent that fat women do.) I've yet to hear of a woman writing the same weight clause for her husband in her pre-nup. Until this judgment about our bodies and our lifestyles begins to change, until we're no longer subjected to these double standards, I'm going to continue arguing for our right to have our choices respected.

You may assume my ideas are "radical" and "far to the left," but they're really not. There are plenty of people out there who will speak up when we see this kind of judgment of women continue. We would like it to end. Most of us, though, choose to stay away from forums like this one because of the youth and inexperience of the people who choose to post here. It gets tiresome for us to field the same arguments over and over again and realize how deep your social conditioning goes.

We've long been conditioned to believe that women's bodies are available for social commentary. It considered natural and expected for us to do it. I've spent long years reading, researching and trying to figure out why we feel this way and how I feel about it. The conclusion I've reached, along with many other people on this planet, is that it's not ok. I understand this might be a new idea to many people on this forum, which is why I'm reading the same old arguments I've read over and over again, any time a woman takes the initiative to say "my body is not your property to comment on."

Just because a majority of the young people here may disagree with me, that doesn't mean I'm wrong. What it says to me is that they're young and inexperienced and have yet to really examine the issues. My hope is that people might start to think about things a little more critically and realize that this kind of judgment and body snark about women is not ok. As I've written here before, it does no one any good and certainly doesn't do anything to help women.

 

[Shai Gar]

Naww, he doesn't live in the world today, he's a zombie. We chain him to the computer and he types from muscle memory.

 

[Kavalan]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1KHqi9bXc"]YouTube- Dave Chappelle Whore's Uniform Clipta New Video Wave[/ame]

 

[Reon]

Discussing women's right to not have their bodies commented on by everyone else in society is not demanding "special treatment." It's demanding the same treatment that men experience on a much more frequent basis.

So, even you admit that men's bodies are judged occasionally (and I'd go to say that they are judged all the time, people are people.)

To give you one example: men's bodies are not judged on the same scale that women's are. Men write clauses in pre-nuptial agreements, stating that they can divorce their wives if the wife gains weight, because as we all know, a woman's body instantly becomes "socially unacceptable" if she's fat, right?

It's not illegal for her to do so. She should include her weight limit if that's what she truly wants.

We would like it to end. Most of us, though, choose to stay away from forums like this one because of the youth and inexperience of the people who choose to post here. It gets tiresome for us to field the same arguments over and over again and realize how deep your social conditioning goes.

Disagreement == Youth and inexperience with the society we live in today? Funny how that works. It's just not the youths that are disagreeing with you, btw, I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you but not to the extent that you are pushing. Also, when was the national feminist meeting held? "Most of us?" I didn't know women collectively grouped together from hundreds of countries to speak one gospel. Is there a forum? I'd very much like to see it

 

[Norton]

Um, no they haven't. Have you lived in the world today?

Only one counter-example is needed to disprove an assertion.

When my wife graduated from medical school in 1978, only 8% of her class were women. Currently, the typical medical school class is often comprised of greater than 50% women.

I've been around for 59 years.

 

[slant]

You know what...at this point, there's something wrong here. The whole forum is ganging up on one person. Something needs to be implemented because even if we all disagree with her I don't think it's fair to bash her again and again over the issue. If this thread continues to go on this direction, which, actually was not it's intention in the first place, I personally think that the moderation team should look into it, as I can see they are probably moderating it very closely.

I disagree with you thirty's girl, but, that doesn't mean a whole thread should be dedicated to proving you wrong.

This whole discussion took an off-topic rampage.

 

[Shai Gar]

Only one counter-example is needed to disprove an assertion.

When my wife graduated from medical school in 1978, only 8% of her class were women. Currently, the typical medical school class is often comprised of greater than 50% women.

I've been around for 59 years.

Anecdotes can be used to disprove an argument but not to prove them
*high five*

Einstein - The exception disproves the rule.

 

[bamf]

And how does blaming them for making their own choice about their own bodies help them? Explain that one to me.

Because by making them "victims" without blame (even though you blatantly say it's their choice) takes power away from them. If you blame the industry and not the women, it's as if the women don't have the power to change themselves. They're "victims" so it's not their fault for what they've done, and thus they don't have to actively look to change themselves in healthier ways.

When someone makes the choice, the consequences of their actions are their own. They can and are influenced, but no one is forcing them. Education on embracing ones body as is, and people promoting healthy modeling (think of dove's campaign) are a good start. Blaming an entity does nothing but take the power of personal change away from the women who are involved. They did it to their bodies, to blame someone else takes away the power to change back.

 

[thirtiesgirl]

Here is what I don't understand.

If I cut my hair, alright, who do I blame for cutting my hair when that was MY decision with MY body to cut my hair? If I don't like my haircut and someone tells me 'well you shouldn't blame women for the choices they make with their body' should I say 'this is a feminist issue and you are sexist for saying that'. It makes absolutely no logical sense. Women ARE responsible for the choices they make to their own body whether they like it or not. If I choose to stop eating it isn't my Uncle's fault or my dog's fault or the president's fault or my barbecue's fault or my favorite bacon company's fault because they stopped producing the only meat I ate; It is MY fault. ME ME ME. Women need to be responsible for their actions. Feminism actually encourages this.

Slant, honey, you're getting yourself in a tizzy. I've not once argued that women are not responsible for their actions. What I'm arguing is that it's not ok to comment on those actions and those choices. If you cut your hair, is it anyone else's business but yours how you feel about your hair and how you look with your new haircut? No. No one else has the right to comment on your hair or your looks as you walk down the street. If they don't like your haircut, it's wrong of them to blame you for "offending" their aesthetic sensibilities. And that's what the boys and girls in this thread seem to want to argue it's perfectly ok to do with runway models. They want to blame the runway models for offending their sense of how a woman's body is "supposed to" look. And in my mind, that's not ok.

I agree that an unnaturally thin runway model could make better choices, but I'm not going to cause more harm than good by imposing my beliefs on her and making a comment about her looks, snarking about her body and making concentration camp jokes. That's not ok. Do you get me?

This in itself is a fallacy. This is appeal to authority. 'I work as a school counselor therefore I have more experience in the area therefore I know more than you and I am correct.' Actually, you're wrong. Having experience as a school counselor does nothing to build up the validity of your argument.

I disagree. My experience with this issue gives me validity. I've been doing this for nearly 10 years and have heard so many young girls talk about body issues and self-esteem, that I think I know what I'm talking about. I also have a masters degree in educational counseling, with a lot of marriage & family therapy experience. Those things count for something. Once you've had similar experiences, listened to lots of other people discuss their issues, and have worked on a degree yourself, you can argue validity with me. But until then, all you can speak to is your own experience, not the experience of others.

Wait--- how do YOU know what your younger brother did and did not experience? Did you even read the boy anorexia website? Men who have eating disorders and consistently ignored because people don't believe they can have them and on top of that society doesn't deem it fit for men to have eating disorders. I am not implying your brother had an eating disorder, but I am saying you would most likely not know if he did because they go unreported. And believe it or not 70%-60% of all binge eating disorder are cases of MEN who have them.

Just as many, if not more, of women's eating disorders go unreported. I'm aware that my brother doesn't have an eating disorder because his body does not physically fit the profile, and neither does his behavior. If it did, I would suggest that he talk with his doctor or a therapist, but I'd avoid making any comments about his body.

Anyway the point is, by stating that men do not and will never know what it is like to grow up as a female in this culture, you have put yourself in a box. By the same logic, you do not know how it is like and will never know what it is like to grow up as a man in this culture. In conclusion, for you to even claim you know that your brother didn't do through the same that you did is ridiculous. You DONT know, and you will never know. How do you like them apples?

Ah, you argue with the righteousness of youth. Good for you. But you know nothing about went on behind closed doors in my house because I haven't chosen to share. You make assumptions, as you've been trained to do, because you think you're in the right.

I never made claim that I know everything that my brother went through. I do know that with my family and at the school that we both attended together, his sexual exploits and how he chose to look were not judged in the way mine were. I know because I received verbal abuse about my sexual activities and how I looked, whereas he did not. In my case, I wasn't even sexually active, but I was already being judged a slut by my family for the clothes I chose to wear, while my brother was sexually active during his last year of high school and nothing was said to him. It was perfectly fine for a boy to be out at all hours of the night, whereas I was not allowed out of the house. That's all I'll choose to share because I don't believe you need to know more. I tend to reserve it for people towards whom I feel warmth and friendliness.

I'll bounce this question back at you: why is it that there are so many commercials that imply men are 'stupid', the depict men as sitting on the couch watching the football game? Why are there so many commercials about sports directed towards men? Why are there so many commercials about home fitness workout systems for men to get buff, directed at, you guessed it, men? Consider the amount of teenage men who get hooked on steroids trying to achieve that impossible sculpted body that all of the hot celebrity males have. Consider how in commericials, either men are sold as sculted, 100% beefcakes or fat, lazy, stupid guys who only care about sports and sex?

I agree with you. I've never once argued that men are not portrayed as largely stupid in many commercials geared towards them. But if you look at the research and count the numbers, there are far less commercials geared towards men as there are towards women. You'll not be able to convince me, no matter how much righteous anger you pack into your arguments.

1. Age does not equate knowledge. This can be proven by considering how many younger people know how to do complicated things with computers that take people in their 60's ages to learn.

Hon, I'm not arguing that I know more about computers than you do. I'm sure you could surpass me there with your eyes closed. I do, however, know a bit more about people than you do, simply due to the fact that I've been living on this planet and dealing with people for a slightly longer time than you have.

It's also true that the human brain does not finish developing and growing until between the ages of 23 and 25. Usually 23 for men and 25 for women. As you're not yet of that age, I'd say you have a ways to go. ...Sadly, for me, I've been past that age for quite a while.

2. You are not licensed in the field that you are arguing against me, therefore you have no way to prove that you know more than I do. Arguing that you somehow know more about the topic is only valid if you have a formal education in the area. You clearly do not, and I clearly do not, therefore, it is fair game.

No, but I do have a masters in educational counseling and a lot of experience with marriage and family therapy. I also have age and experience on my side and know bit more about people and their motivations than you do. Save your righteous anger for something important, like ensuring that women can exist on this planet without having constant body snark leveled in their direction, rather than taking it out on me.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Only one counter-example is needed to disprove an assertion.

When my wife graduated from medical school in 1978, only 8% of her class were women. Currently, the typical medical school class is often comprised of greater than 50% women.

I've been around for 59 years.

There you go.

I'm done disucssing this with you, thirtiesgirl. Your opinions are more stubborn then a 5 foot thick brick wall, and you won't listen to anyone else.

 

[christmas]

/came for the picshurs

 

[Skoffin]

This chat looks like a fun one to join in on but I'm pressed on time right now, but I suspect it will be locked before I get back.
Bah, I'm probably too young anyway.

 

[arbygil]

[mods] Last warning: If you're participating in this discussion, do not resort to name-calling or ageism/sexism/racism/classism/etc to fortify your arguments against another poster. Keep it above the belt.- Thanks.[/mods]

 

[bamf]

Slant, honey, you're getting yourself in a tizzy. I've not once argued that women are not responsible for their actions. What I'm arguing is that it's not ok to comment on those actions and those choices. If you cut your hair, is it anyone else's business but yours how you feel about your hair and how you look with your new haircut? No. No one else has the right to comment on your hair or your looks as you walk down the street. If they don't like your haircut, it's wrong of them to blame you for "offending" their aesthetic sensibilities. And that's what the boys and girls in this thread seem to want to argue it's perfectly ok to do with runway models. They want to blame the runway models for offending their sense of how a woman's body is "supposed to" look. And in my mind, that's not ok.

If someone is doing something unhealthy, I think it's perfectly warranted to point out to them that they are doing so in your opinion, and leave it at that. And you did argue that women aren't responsible for their actions in the fashion industry. You said that they cannot be blamed for their own personal thinness, but rather the industry as a whole can be blamed.

You are right, what one does with their body is no one else's business, nor should it be the topic of jokes. However, if they need help, it should be offered, and they need to understand that they are in the physical shape they are because of their own choices, not because some big bad industry made them do it. An addict is an addict because they've taken actions to become one. They have experiences that influence why they started, but ultimately it was only their choice and their actions. They are to blame, but not blame in the sense of making fun of them. There's a difference, and you need to see that some of us are differentiating between the two.

Also, when you claim that men have no sexual repressions and what not, that is 100% wrong. You don't sound like a feminist (coming from a feminist) It's a two way street, and to deny that men face different but ever constant sexual demands is at the very least a blind assumption, if not sexist. Boys are constantly being challenged (think GI Joe, Rambo, being "bad-ass", objectifying women) and to dismiss that as less or unimportant is doing a disservice to feminism everywhere.

And to reply to the rest of your message to Slant, it is not okay to belittle someone because of your "life experience" and assume she is lacking. Else-wise, continue on.

 

[thirtiesgirl]

You can complain all you want about the fashion industry but, really, there is not much an individual can do to change things. What you can do is ignore it and the comparatively small number of people who willfully choose to disfigure themselves through anorexia to be models, and direct your attention to more important things. Like alleviating and preventing starvation and famine among people who cannot willfully choose to eat more because of poverty, geography, and/or dysfunctional governments. Or, start a business that employs people to do good work and make useful things, thereby accumulating wealth and power you can use directly to do good and indirectly to influence others (e.g., politicians, NGO's) to do good.

In my case, I am doing something that has value for me and to the people I serve. I'm a high school counselor and I deal with too many kids who have low self-esteem and eating disorders because of constant body commentary by their friends, their family, internet forums like this one, and the popular media. This is part of the way I try to help them out, by speaking out against body snark when I see it. By bringing up the idea that, hey, maybe it's not ok to comment on women's bodies as if they're just objects for ridicule or sexual objectification.

However, regardless of fashion, the best thing you can do to look good is to eat good healthy food in optimum quantities and exercise (including having fun and playing sports). Being too thin or too fat, regardless of one's sex, is unhealthy.

Norton, I understand you're trying to be the "voice of reason" here, but why do you believe your ideas about healthful living and looking good are "the best" for everyone? You're imposing your assumptions. Assumptions that, yes, do go hand in hand with what the popular media, medical, diet and weight loss industries often espouse to us as the "right thing" to do. But keep in mind that there are those on the planet who may choose to live their lives in a different way and don't feel it's ok for you to say what's "best" for them or not, simply because you believe it's true.