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Hate Groups

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Creon, Apr 6, 2009.

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  1. Creon

    Creon Community Member

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    There are currently 926 active hate groups in the U.S. The classification of a group as a hate group is controversial, so there may be more. Most hate groups target minorities, usually national, racial, sexual and religious minorities. .

    Most groups promote violence as a solution, while others manage to avoid legal implications by using methods that are not punishable by law, but are considered harmful by social standards. An example would be the Westboro Baptist Church who primarily target homosexuals and picket at their funerals. They even once picketed at a soldier's funeral who died in Iraq.

    1) How would you respond if a person you just met told you that he was part of an active hate group?

    2) Edited: Do you consider that the state should implement more laws against them, especialy in the concept of the famous Post Racial America promises? Or do you believe that it's a social matter and it's up to the people to isolate those groups?

    3) Suppose you were the Supreme Leader of America, an Emperor with no restrictions. What would you do about hate groups?

    4) Suppose you're walking down the street and you see 6 people mercilessly hitting someonefrom a known racial minority in your area. You know these 6 people, and you also know that they belong in a hate group targeting racial minorities. It is late night, and you happen to be in possession of a legally owned gun.
    What do you do?
     
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    #1 Creon, Apr 6, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  2. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    The only gay man's funeral I know the Westboro Baptist Church has picketed was Mathew Shepard's funeral. Most of the funerals they used to picket were soldier's funerals, hence why they got such a national acclaim. You can see them picketing just about any gay pride event though.

    Depends on where I met him. If it was in a professional setting, then I would probably put aside my feelings and approach him like anyone else. If it was in an informal setting, then I would probably walk away. If it was online, I would argue with them relentlessly about it,.

    That is kind of a false dichotomy. People should have the freedom to voice their opinions, but they should also be held accountable for their actions when the hurt others.

    Nothing. As long as they aren't actively participating in violence, they can do as they please.

    I call the cops and take down information. I'm a pacifist by nature.
     
  3. Milon

    Milon Director of Glomps
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    Taz, can you post a link? I'd like to see some info on this.

    I'll answer question 1. My reaction - whether I knew the person or not - would be shock and disgust. I'd ask them why they joined such a group. What I do after that depends on the person. Some people I'd argue with, some people I'd ignore whenever possible, and for others I'd simply share my (positive) experiences concerning people of the hated group.
     
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  4. OP
    Creon

    Creon Community Member

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    I do not know alot about them. My knowledge comes from wikipedia only. It refers to other names as well. But I don't know if they indeed did so since wikipedia is not to be trusted.
    Anyway, this is the Url.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

    Milon, if your question was about the statistical data, here is the link:
    http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp
    That was not what I was trying to ask. I was specifficaly reffering to hate groups, and I was asking if you think that the state should intervene or if the people should do something about them. But it's obvious that the intent of my question had NOTHING to do with what I actualy wrote... I'll edit it.
     
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    #4 Creon, Apr 6, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  5. Milon

    Milon Director of Glomps
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    Thanks for the links, Taz.

    Alaska and Hawaii have something good going on there. No hate groups! ^_^

    And I had a look at the Westboro Baptist Church wiki entry. And I don't know how many times I said "Oh my God!" when reading about it. :( So many things I could say to that. But I'd be late for work if I did.
     
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  6. poetrygirl

    poetrygirl Community Member

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    Hate groups and free speech

    I view hate groups to be bigoted in nature. But I fear that putting to many restrains on hate groups that are staying within legal limits may be used to stomp on free speech and may very well be used to limit the rights of protest for peaceful activist. In the end I believe that everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it is messed up. If they begin to go out of legal boundaries and result in violence only then should the government interfere with those particular groups. I honestly don't fear the "westboro baptist church" from throwing rocks through my window or trying to shoot me. If they want to stand at a street corner holding up a sign of their opinions they should have every right to even if I don't agree with it or find it particularly insulting.
     
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  7. efromm

    efromm Hiding In My Shell...
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    1) How would you respond if a person you just met told you that he was part of an active hate group?
    I live in a part of Idaho famous for hate groups the main group was the Aryan Nations. Now they are long gone although I have met with and talked to their now dead leader Mr Butler. I was not offended by him at all I was intrigued by his views.

    2) Edited: Do you consider that the state should implement more laws against them, especially in the concept of the famous Post Racial America promises? Or do you believe that it's a social matter and it's up to the people to isolate those groups?
    How would you isolate a group? I think humans need to stop fearing other humans. Mankind can stop the hatred of others by setting a good example. So in the end society should take care of it after all society is the government in the end.


    3) Suppose you were the Supreme Leader of America, an Emperor with no restrictions. What would you do about hate groups?
    Nothing I would lead by example.

    4) Suppose you're walking down the street and you see 6 people mercilessly hitting an African American. You know these people, and you also know that they belong in a hate group targeting racial minorities. It is late night, and you happen to be in possession of a legally owned gun.
    What do you do?

    A legally owned gun makes no difference it's the concealed carry permit that you need to have to be carrying the gun in the first place. I would think that they were armed and I would treat them as armed and dangerous people. I would like to think that I would shoot a few of them. Although knowing how the law works now I would grab a bat or a two by four and start the beating. Using a gun is never an option if you value your freedom. And in all fairness from my own experience when I was in Oakland and was in the wrong place my white ass got chased and shot at. I have never seen a black person being chased out of a white neighborhood in Idaho... And yes there are black people in Idaho..
     
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    #7 efromm, Apr 6, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  8. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    These are difficult questions, Taz, but important ones. And efromm^^, I would say that no - if you're not part of the group, you probably wouldn't feel as if you're being chased out. There are subtle ways of chasing people out of neighborhoods that have little or nothing to do with violence.

    As to the questions, I'll try answering them the best way I can.

    1) How would you respond if a person you just met told you that he was part of an active hate group?

    Aheh. It's happened before, although they haven't outright said anything to my face. But if it were my own culture that was an active hate-monger, I'd probably seek to understand why they're part of the group in the first place - and what purpose it served in the scheme of things.

    2) Edited: Do you consider that the state should implement more laws against them, especialy in the concept of the famous Post Racial America promises? Or do you believe that it's a social matter and it's up to the people to isolate those groups?

    Neither work. More laws won't change anything; the groups simply go underground. If push comes to shove it's a compound situation, and mini-wars break out. It's nice to believe it's a social matter, but you can see for yourself with the few answers above - not everyone believes the same way, nor does everyone agree what constitutes a "hate" crime. Everyone will swear they're not a racist, but the truth comes out if someone in a so-called tolerant family becomes engaged to someone who isn't of their family's culture. Things can get really ugly, then.

    I think education should be included with any offense. Not just jail time, because jails often breed more racism (some of the most racists places in America are in the prison systems). But as repeat offenders of alcohol abuse/DUIs are forced to go to counseling and AA groups, so should it be with folks who are part of hate groups. You might reach some this way, in any case. Not saying it'll work for all.

    But then, what does?

    3) Suppose you were the Supreme Leader of America, an Emperor with no restrictions. What would you do about hate groups?

    Perhaps what I said above - add more educational programs, I suppose. Separating the leaders and having them live with tolerant groups of folks from different racial backgrounds might help. Maybe. Sort of like what Morgan Spurlock was doing in his TV show, 30 days.

    4) Suppose you're walking down the street and you see 6 people mercilessly hitting an African American. You know these people, and you also know that they belong in a hate group targeting racial minorities. It is late night, and you happen to be in possession of a legally owned gun.
    What do you do?


    Hee. Taz, you should've made this more neutral, hon'. But first I'd get out my cellphone and call the police. Then I'd fire my pistol in the air (hopefully the bullets won't come back down on folks) and shout loudly that I've called the police, and unless they want to go to jail to break up the situation.

    Then I'd probably run for my life because I'd be one lone female with a gun.
     
  9. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    1) I would give them one of those "Are you serious? You've got to be kidding me" looks. I don't just dislike hate and prejudices -- I think they're irrational, ignorant, and a clue to a rather poor character with poor judgment, and I'm not afraid to make this known. I'm not an elitist in any situation except for this, and then I'm perfectly willing to look down my nose at these people. I don't humor that stuff.

    2) The state should prevent violence. What people say or do, though, is up to them; we can't constitutionally hold their rights to their opinions. So legally, we can only go so far.
    Socially, though, I am all for using the rights we have to suppress their right to be dumbasses.

    3) Well, there's only so much you can do without bordering repression -- I'd do all within reason. A monarch must be willing to go against their morals to keep peace...so it's imperative to keep their violence down, whilst not being violent against them. I would have a no-nonsense take on the matter, though, and I'd vehemently promote education against violence.

    4) Call the police, get all the information I could, take pictures if I had a camera. I wouldn't be able to do anything against a bunch of guys with a gun...I ain't no superhero, although I like to pretend sometimes. However, I'd do what I could
     
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  10. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    1.)
    If someone I met told me they were a member of a hate group I would pick their brain and ask them lots of questions about their objectives and why they are involved. Then, I would try to carefully reason with why I think they are wrong..probably without telling them they are wrong. I'd try to converse in a way that would steer their thoughts in a different direction. I know it's a long shot and I'd probably just end up provoking them to rage, but I feel I'd at least have to try and give them reasons to believe in an alternative. If they won't hear of it, I will distance myself from them but at the same time I won't be cruel to them. People like that are hateful because they feel they have endured much cruelty--which doesn't make them any more right.

    2.)
    I am not a fan of most laws. We have too many laws. I'm certainly not a fan of any sort of censorship, however I despise violence in any form. It's a tough call. They should be allowed to spout their hatred and make themselves look like fools. Times are a changin' whether they like it or not. The KKK seems to be dying out for example. Look at the influence they had a century or so ago and compare it to now. Seems to me people are evolving socially and the hate groups will dwindle down to a few fanatics.

    3.)
    Yarg. I don't want the burden of being a supreme leader. I would not implement laws restricting their speech. But if they were convicted of a violent crime, offenders would go to prison for life. For. Life.

    4.)
    I would do a really cool magic trick to distract them and then my minority friend and I would vanish in a puff of smoke.
    Seriously. I know it's probably illogical and asking for trouble, but I couldn't stand by. I'd have to try and break it up. Maybe I'd fire that gun into the air to spook 'em. And call an ambulance, the police..
     
  11. OP
    Creon

    Creon Community Member

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    I'm sorry, did I say something offensive? I am not American, so sometimes it seems that there are things that shouldn't be said due to social factors and not linguistic ones. Anyway, if I've offended anyone, I apologize, and I would like the admins to edit my post in a way that it is not offensive anymore.
     
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    #11 Creon, Apr 6, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  12. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    No, no - not necessarily offensive. You just made a small assumption. I'm African American, so in your example I'd probably be dealing with a group of African American offenders beating up another racial group.

    It would have been more apt to say any hate group. The race shouldn't play a part in the scenario...although it does make you think, doesn't it? :)
     
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  13. OP
    Creon

    Creon Community Member

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    I see. I will delete this last question to avoid any controversies. Forgive me for my ignorance.
     
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  14. Lucifer

    Lucifer Registered User #666

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    A mixture of curiousity and disgust, I would probably be tempted to argue with him/her. I would be curious to know how they got into this whole business.
    No

    I would do nothing unless they threatened violence, or was known to carry out violent acts. If it is the former I would probably put them on a watch list.
     
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  15. EloquentBohemian

    EloquentBohemian Community Member

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    I wouldn't delete it Taz, as it is a very good question. You could alter it to this, which sounds more neutral and applicable anywhere...

     
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  16. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    ^^ I agree! Taz, You really don't need to delete it - and with the right wording, it still makes complete sense.
     
  17. OP
    Creon

    Creon Community Member

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    I edited it. Thanks Eb.
     
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  18. EloquentBohemian

    EloquentBohemian Community Member

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    You're welcome, Taz. This is a very thought-provoking thread which I am still pondering.
    Just for information's sake, one of the most used Forums in the area of hate groups is Stormfront, which has almost 164,000 members. Some of the opinions on there are truly incredulous.
     
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  19. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    Stormfront is rather scary in itself - mostly because many of the folks on there are quite intelligent. When the insane make more sense than the asylum, it's time to switch tactics...
     
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    Creon

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    Intelligent????

    No arbygil. They are faaar from intelligent. Misinterpreting a philosopher's book in order to make it suitable for pitiful propaganda is not proof of intelligence. It's just unethical and disrespectful. Let's not confuse the intelligent with the unethical.
     
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