"Gay" High Schools

[Cherokee]

I have to agree with those who think that segregation would be a bad idea (even voluntary segregation). Kids need a chance to get used to diversity right away. I know that public school is miserable for LGBT kids, (and they don't just drop out they kill themselves), but society needs them to be in public school. If you take them out of the general school system and put them all together, then you will end up with a generation of straight kids who never got used to diversity, and never learned acceptance.

There is a much larger problem here, and that is how we allow children to be mistreated in schools. It's not just LGBT kids who are mistreated. We shouldn't allow any children to be mistreated, especially in a place that they go to learn, this is the problem that we need to address.

 

[the]

Hrmmm, I would actually rather see my tax money go to funding "progressive" schools, such as LGBTQ ones, than public schools as they stand, which I believe are antiquated, ill-functioning, and demonstrate a contemptuous relationship between teachers, parents, and students that only grows and deepens over time. "

I would rather my tax money go to a school that was not progressive or liberal or conservative or politically slanted at all. I would also rather my money went to a technologically up to date, well functioning school where parents and teachers were not at odds with the learning material. I guess what I am saying is that we don't have to pick one or the other of your ideas. We can instead try for something even better than either.

. Lgbtq school sounds like it is going to push an agenda. I feel when you put people under a label they become elitist. I can't think of a place on the Internet like this... Hmmm...

Anyways I think public school should serve the needs of a community, not the needs of a special few. We are talking about learning here, what do lgbtq people need to know that the rest of society doesn't need to know? It's not like they are handicapped and need special learning sessions to function.

 

[barbad0s]

I think a better approach would be for existing schools that are willing to take it on to flag themselves as "gay-friendly" schools, so people will know that the school is open to everyone but is a school that will be safe for LGBTQ and that will advocate acceptance and not tolerate homophobia (I think that all schools should be like this as a standard, but those are my personal views). I think this idea would likely be faced with less stigma than all-gay schools. And I'm not gay, but to be honest, I can't see how it would appeal to enough people to be segregated from all their other peers in that way... I could be wrong though.

 

[the]

This seems like the perfect way for the kkk to gather everyone up for good old fashioned lynching.

 

[Vicarious]

I really don't think "segregating" kids is the answer. They will always find something to tease or bully each other over...even in a LGBT school. They'll start targeting the "fat" kids, the poor kids, or kids with bad fashion sense...whatever...do we then segregate them as well? Schools for gay, overweight children? Then schools for gay, overweight children with braces? Then schools for gay, overweight children with braces who walk with a slight limp? Where would it end? How the heck would these kids learn to function out in the real world where there ARE people who will be unaccepting of them? How will other kids learn to be accepting of them if they're never exposed to them or have the opportunity to get to know them?

 

[Soulful]

disclaimer: this is a messily written post. pretty incoherent. a TL;DR is included at the end.

I don't know what to think of this. I think the proposal puts forth issues of segregation and privacy. On the other hand, I can certainly understand some of the reasons why such a proposal got put forth in the first place and why we're now having this discussion.

It is terrible that existing curricula and social atmospheres result in the need for the creation of LGBTQ positive schools. Society should inherently be LGBTQ positive.

Also, why isn't something like "Equity" integrated into the curriculum? Why doesn't Equity and Diversity get taught as a class? But also having equity integrated into the general curriculum so that issues of justice are not made a "special" topic but are recognized as something we need to address and deal with generally.

On the whole, I'm not against LBGTQ schools. But the creation of "separatist" schools like those using an Africentric curriculum is a little questionable in my mind. What about curriculums that acknowledge other races? Hispanic, Aboriginal, Southeast Asian, South Asian, Australasian/Oceanic, etc. While the established curriculums are widely euro-centric, I suspect this is also a misnomer in the sense that they depict europe in very particular ways that may not actually involve nordic and eastern european ideas as much as they do western europe. But perhaps that's another topic. However, I guess we also need to consider that the Africentric curriculum was developed in response to a uniquely high drop-out rate amongst Toronto's black students, so while I have my reservations about it, I also applaud the efforts of the board in intiating what will hopefully be a meaningful step towards a solution. I'm not sure whether the same types of reservations can apply to a LGBTQ school, but I can certainly understand the need for a school that offers a positive experience for queer kids, and if they're not going to get that in heterosexist schools then it makes sense that someone would strive to offer a better option.

TL;DR -- I have concerns about it, but it's probably a good step. Steps need to be taken; perhaps this doesn't have to be permanent, but clearly something needs to be done given the atrocious experiences of some queer youth in high school and the lack of learning opportunities that arise due to their social-emotional issues and mental health issues that stem from an inability to thrive in potentially hateful environments.

 

[Soulful]

Also, I'm of the opinion that we already segregate kids. We live in a culture and society that segregates them based on whether or not they fit into heterosexist norms. This may not seem seem as significant to some (probably straight/cis identified individuals) as physical segregation in the form of schools, but I suspect it's not meaningfully different. The only difference is that up till now segregation has been an "individual" emotional and psychological experience as opposed to an acknowledged decision and physical act toward a group of people. Somehow making a gesture toward an entire group in a way that is physically visible seems to validate this as segregation. I wonder if this is really not that novel for those who've had the experience of having ended up on the "unfortunate" side of the gender/sexuality fence according to social norms.

 

[MrDoobie]

Ok, I had more to say about the "PC Bullshit" argument that Billy brought up, but I had to quick bounce.

Now, "politically correct" seems to me like a buzzword kind of like "irony" or "hipster", in that it's tossed around a lot by people who don't seem to know what it means and often don't know what they are talking about. I used to think people who whined about "political correctness" were just bitter racists, upset that they can't call black people "niggers" anymore. But now that I've gotten more experience, it seems more that political correctness is an empty buzzword cum diversion argument meant to appeal to emotion and people who wring their hands over "political correctness" have merely fallen for the argument. So, what is political correctness? I don't think anyone is really sure. We all know it's.... bad. I mean, it seems responsible for a whole range of ills, from the decline of western civilization to prostate cancer. And who is the wicked wielder of the deadly weapon of political correctness? Well.... it's anyone who disagrees with us, of course! Republicans, democrats, anarchists, socialists, fascists, teachers, parents, the government, rich people, poor people, black people, white people, pink people, whoever your ideological opponent is, I can guarantee you that they are wreaking havoc upon the world with the deadly "political correctness".

Everybody is a target in school. not just the gays.

Yet gay youths have disproportionately high drop out and suicide rates.

Yep, harsh truth. I dont think the answer is having all gay schools. The answer is that people should learn to respect others in public schools. Truth is that homophobia will always exist, just as racism, sexism, religious hatred ect ect. Why? because humans suck. Get used to it and fight it back if you have the guts.

Hrmmmm. *DISCLAIMER: this is a generalization* High school is a place where your parents are still legally responsible for you and your well-being, you don't pay bills, you don't pay for your own food, and you don't pay rent. You are taken out for mandatory exercise (gym class). The most important thing in life is often who Jenny Carter slept with (that hoebag). Yep, it certainly sounds like high school gets you ready for the real world.

You want to teach children about how life is harsh and cruel? Beat them. For no reason. Kick them out of the house at the age of 13. Refuse to accept them for who they are and show absolutely no regard for their feelings, ever. Make them pay for all their own clothes and food. Charge them rent.

Homophobia is wrong and it is bad but I do not think the answer is segregation.

Ok, I want to get rid of this "segregation" thing, because I feel like it's really getting in the way.

Alright. *breath*. There are Catholic schools, right? These Catholic schools were founded with Catholic students in mind. Going to this Catholic school is optional and many of them allow students who are not Catholic. Despite this, in many of these schools, a majority of the students are Catholic. Would you call Catholic school segregation of Catholics? Are the alumni of these schools incapable of adapting to a diverse world where not everyone they meet is Catholic? Is there a lot of anti-Catholic hatred because Catholic schools have taken away all the Catholic students and so no one knows what Catholics are really like, and so they hate and fear them?

All Christian schools so they feel comfortable (there are these and they are private and the parents pay tuition)?

Also, Christian Charter schools, which are funded publicly.

There are also private schools that are partially funded through the public.

Where would you stop?

Slippery slope fallacy.

Not only that, but #1 - this argument ignores the disproportionately high drop-out/suicide rates of LGBTQ students.

#2 - Those schools founded with the purpose of being a safe haven for LGBTQ youth welcome all students, so you could very well say they are schools for any of the people you just listed. Anyone who feels marginalized and in danger at their current school.

#3 - This also ignores that part of the purpose of many of these schools is that they are dissatisfied with the WASP agenda being pushed by the public school system and wish to provide an alternative that is more sensitive to diversity.

do you seriously think there might be zero bullying in these "safe" schools?

No, but I would like to believe that anyone who founds a school with the purpose of keeping children safe from bullying would take the bullying problem more seriously and be more active and effective at combating it.

I would rather my tax money go to a school that was not progressive

By progressive I meant "forward thinking". Attempting to move forward from our current, outdated model.

. Lgbtq school sounds like it is going to push an agenda.

As opposed to the straight, white agenda of public schools.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

It's important to interact with all different types of people. We should all strive for normalcy to a certain degree. Segregating a kid into a sliver of the population whether it's Catholic school, gay school, or rich people school can inhibit a persons psychological growth. I'm not saying all private schools are bad, I'm just saying people shouldn't blindly attend them and assume they are getting a better education because it's more expensive. There is an opportunity cost to everything in life.

I don't think gay schools should be illegal because all our experiences are unique. But if I had a gay child I'm almost positive I wouldn't send them to a gay only school. I would expect my kid to learn how to function in any situation, even if that isn't the path of least resistance.

 

[MrDoobie]

I don't think gay schools should be illegal because all our experiences are unique. But if I had a gay child I'm almost positive I wouldn't send them to a gay only school. I would expect my kid to learn how to function in any situation, even if that isn't the path of least resistance.

.... *sigh*

There are Catholic schools, right? These Catholic schools were founded with Catholic students in mind. Going to this Catholic school is optional and many of them allow students who are not Catholic. Despite this, in many of these schools, a majority of the students are Catholic. Would you call Catholic school segregation of Catholics? Are the alumni of these schools incapable of adapting to a diverse world where not everyone they meet is Catholic? Is there a lot of anti-Catholic hatred because Catholic schools have taken away all the Catholic students and so no one knows what Catholics are really like, and so they hate and fear them?

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

.... *sigh*

Why the *sigh*?

 

[Cherokee]

Another thing that you may want to consider is that not all of the problems come from school. A lot of these kids don't have supportive parents.
If I had an LGBT child and I couldn't get the school system to provide them a safe environment, then I would pull my kid out of that school in a heartbeat.
There are a lot of people out there however; who treat their kids just as badly as the schools treat them, and those children would not benefit from LGBT schools, because their parents would never support them enough to send them there.
That's why it's more important to fix the problems in the existing schools, because these kids need to be treated right even if their parents don't think so.

 

[Billy]

Yet gay youths have disproportionately high drop out and suicide rates.

Compared to who? What other factors may be involved? You can play with statistics any way you want to present the data, or perhaps the constant droning on about bullying and suicide is giving some of these kids ideas that may not have been quite as evident as they once were. Almost like a self fulfilling prophecy. And even so, is their suicide rate really the schools problem? I think youre going to have to elaborate on the statistics and factor in additional causes and not just assume its 1 cause. School bullying.

Hrmmmm. *DISCLAIMER: this is a generalization* High school is a place where your parents are still legally responsible for you and your well-being, you don't pay bills, you don't pay for your own food, and you don't pay rent. You are taken out for mandatory exercise (gym class). The most important thing in life is often who Jenny Carter slept with (that hoebag). Yep, it certainly sounds like high school gets you ready for the real world.

This doesnt even make sense...

You want to teach children about how life is harsh and cruel? Beat them. For no reason. Kick them out of the house at the age of 13. Refuse to accept them for who they are and show absolutely no regard for their feelings, ever. Make them pay for all their own clothes and food. Charge them rent.

This even less.

Ok, I want to get rid of this "segregation" thing, because I feel like it's really getting in the way.

Its gonna be tough to do this, you want to make special schools that basically discriminate against groups of people who dont belong to this specific group, its what "special grouping" is... you would have a much better argument just accepting that it is segregation and attempting to prove why thats better than the argument that its not segregation, its exactly what it is.

Alright. *breath*. There are Catholic schools, right? These Catholic schools were founded with Catholic students in mind. Going to this Catholic school is optional and many of them allow students who are not Catholic. Despite this, in many of these schools, a majority of the students are Catholic. Would you call Catholic school segregation of Catholics? Are the alumni of these schools incapable of adapting to a diverse world where not everyone they meet is Catholic? Is there a lot of anti-Catholic hatred because Catholic schools have taken away all the Catholic students and so no one knows what Catholics are really like, and so they hate and fear them?

Are catholic schools funded by the State the same way you think the government should be funding Gay schools? Because no one is saying there should be no private schools based on this. My point is that government money doesnt belong in it.

Also, Christian Charter schools, which are funded publicly.

I am against the state funding any schools which are based on religion or any discriminatory grouping of people. Can you tell me which schools you are referring to?

There are also private schools that are partially funded through the public.

Elaborate.

Slippery slope fallacy.

Not only that, but #1 - this argument ignores the disproportionately high drop-out/suicide rates of LGBTQ students.

Its only a SS fallacy in that it doesn't prove that gay oriented schools funded by the government are a bad idea, that it opens a new can of worms in terms of consistency is very true and a different issue altogether, but still related. If there are gay schools there is no legal precedent for why there cant be straight schools.

#2 - Those schools founded with the purpose of being a safe haven for LGBTQ youth welcome all students, so you could very well say they are schools for any of the people you just listed. Anyone who feels marginalized and in danger at their current school.

You dont toss out the baby with the bathwater. ALL public schools should be a safe haven for ALL people who wish to learn. Fix the problem, dont make new ones.

#3 - This also ignores that part of the purpose of many of these schools is that they are dissatisfied with the WASP agenda being pushed by the public school system and wish to provide an alternative that is more sensitive to diversity.

The "WASP" agenda? Oh please do elaborate! Sounds downright devious. I love a good conspiracy.

No, but I would like to believe that anyone who founds a school with the purpose of keeping children safe from bullying would take the bullying problem more seriously and be more active and effective at combating it.

Its interesting, I wonder, is there any correlating data of suicides increasing lately due to increased coverage of bullying in the media? Is there any data that shows a steady increase of gay suicides by age, sex, race etc and decade?

By progressive I meant "forward thinking". Attempting to move forward from our current, outdated model.

I agree, we need to start having our schools teach academics again and move away from all this social bullshit thats making it impossible for students to learn and prepare for college. I cant tell you how many sensitivity meetings we had to do in school and diversity days which were really just excuses to get out of class and socialize instead of keeping to the curriculum.

As opposed to the straight, white agenda of public schools.

conjecture.

 

[j654dgj7]

I'm highly in favor of LGBT school. No one should suffer through systematic alienation and bullying.

I was viciously bullied in primary school, and it has a lasting and extremely destructive effect on you. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

For those arguing that it would split students up: your point is mute. Students in the US are extremely divided by wealth and heritage as it is. I agree that is the wrong way to go about it, but why should LGBT kids suffer for the system being broken? Let them have a good strong early start to life, so they can form the self-esteem and will for life that they can use to defer bigotry and hatred for the rest of their lives. Every one deserves that.

 

[Billy]

No one should suffer through systematic alienation

Wait, what? So the best way to not alienate someone is to... uhh alienate them?

I was viciously bullied in primary school, and it has a lasting and extremely destructive effect on you. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

For? by who? why?

For those arguing that it would split students up: your point is mute. Students in the US are extremely divided by wealth and heritage as it is. I agree that is the wrong way to go about it, but why should LGBT kids suffer for the system being broken? Let them have a good strong early start to life, so they can form the self-esteem and will for life that they can use to defer bigotry and hatred for the rest of their lives. Every one deserves that.

Actually they aren't that divided... the wealthy tend not to go to public schools. The extreme poor tend to be in urban schools and the middle class in suburban schools.

A good strong early start to life? but but... life is still going to kick them in the balls once they get out of school... why blind them to that intentionally? Self esteem does NOT make life easier. Self esteem is a buzz word that needs to die a quick death ASAP, because its the focus on self esteem IMO that is driving all this pseudoscience about whats wrong with our youth. We have about 2 decades of self esteem training going on in the US now in our schools and our children are turning out more fucked up than ever in addition to being LESS competitive scholastically compared to the rest of the world. People need to stop being so self centered on their feelings and realize there is always going to be antagonistic assholes in the world and that dealing with them or ignoring them is what works, not self congratulatory bullshit that quickly deflates once you leave the nest of the gay-topia. The only way to continue that gay-topia is to require further segregation, its simply not going to work.

 

[Lemonworld]

In my opinion, no. It might be beneficial to the small minority who are very self-aware in their sexuality, but as a drawback it would reinforce and rigidify existing 'gay' stereotypes and alienate those who do not yet know how to identify.

All institutions are responsible for diminishing social homophobia and ignorance, not just the school system. It needs to be addressed earlier than high school.

 

[Azazel]

Hmmm I can't talk about everybody but I can talk from my own perspective and tell you this: when I was a teenager I wasn't sure if I was straight or I wasn't. The society, or better to say the other kids, confused me enough to think that I might be gay. Nothing wrong with being gay but it took me time to see who I was. So I don't know... some kids may be 100% sure, someone could deny their true nature (I know a couple of those who did) or just didn't know who they were.
Yes, high school can be a very harsh environment but I don't agree with building some special schools just for this purpose. I'd rather see kids studying according to their skills and abilities. Gays don't have a handicap! Maybe some teens want to hide from the society and be more comfy by going to a "gay-friendly" school but in the real world, after they graduate, they cannot hide! I'd rather see "gay-friendly" teachers, sex education and the last but not least, doing something against bullying! Many teachers are aware of bullying but it takes them forever (if at all) to address the issue.
So instead of separating the (potentially) gay kids from the bullies, just go kick the hell out of the bullies. And teachers.... why should teachers stick their noses in the students' private lives anyway. Maybe they should me told that.

Sorry if it sounded a bit harsh but it's just the way I see it.

 

[the]

I'm highly in favor of LGBT school. No one should suffer through systematic alienation and bullying.

I was viciously bullied in primary school, and it has a lasting and extremely destructive effect on you. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

For those arguing that it would split students up: your point is mute. Students in the US are extremely divided by wealth and heritage as it is. I agree that is the wrong way to go about it, but why should LGBT kids suffer for the system being broken? Let them have a good strong early start to life, so they can form the self-esteem and will for life that they can use to defer bigotry and hatred for the rest of their lives. Every one deserves that.

I don't understand. If the system is broken because of segregation, how will segregation fix that?

 

[the]

What are lgbtq students needing to know th at straight students don't? Don't all students need to understand the lgbtq experience (the biological and social implications) in order for the majority to understand and accept them? What exactly is the lgbtq school supposed to accomplish in isolation?

also if you are gay and your dad is prejudiced, how would you get to this school? I think most lgbtqs are never going to make it to this school due to parental issues. How will you over come this problem?

isnt part of the problem straight kids who "seem" gay or are dubbed as not straight enough? They are still trapped at straight school!

 

[linger]

I don't understand. If the system is broken because of segregation, how will segregation fix that?

That's part of my problem with charter schools in general. They do provide great opportunities to some learners, but they don't really do anything to solve the problem for everyone else. But that's sort of a tangent.

I feel like the points about parents and support systems beyond school are really important to consider. Yes, there were plenty of cases last year of students with super supportive parents taking their own lives, but in those instances there were a million moments when someone should have stepped in and didn't.

It's also interesting to consider the place in all of this. In a big city, it might have a better shot of working. Thinking about it in the prejudiced cornfield "town" I grew up in doesn't make it seem like anything much different than a target (unfortunately). You'd just be more easily targeted and there really is no way for you to escape the situation beyond school walls.

I still think the change has to come from within the system. I think people need to say something before shit goes too far (and while I think that 0 tolerance policies for violence went crazy and terribly awry, they're something different than 0 tolerance policies for bullying, if that makes any semblance of sense, and either way people just need to get their heads out of their asses and learn the world is bigger than their limited view--that's never going to change).