Does The Thought of God Not Existing Terrify You?
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I find it so difficult to accept this idea- I think this is where my belief comes from...my mind can just not accept that something came from nothing.
Actually the OP specifically mentions heaven and hell which are entities associated with Judeo-Christian mythology, although conceptually the idea of "good" and "bad" places a deceased person goes/travels/ends up at are found in other mythologies.
Hence, my reference to not being associated with organized religion....the OP is using language associated with organized mythologies. A bit picky but I don't wish to acknowledge belief in Judeo-Christian mythology.
I believe in the concepts of higher powers, chiefly male/female or perhaps understood as yin/yang...duality being the underpinning of how I see spiritual matters.
This is because something to come from nothing is absurd, it's called intrinsic impossibility.
Not picky at all! I think we're saying the same thing, with regards to how we define "God" or our spiritual beliefs.
I guess I took a more abstract response, as you're right, the OP really did mention God in the Judeo-Christian sense. My response was based on my idea of God, which is my own development and integration of a variety of spiritual and religious entities.
In the end: My mind would blow up if a higher power didn't exist. I would consider us all a product of magic in that case....but then who created the magic...?
There's still the implication that God created the universe. My issue is that I have a hard time processing (not saying it can't be true, I just can't wrap my head around it) that the universe just *boop* appeared. I know very little about how the universe was created and theology. Thus, I am not a well educated individual on this- I'm simply going on what I believe and have leisurely learned.
For some reason, I find the creation of an incorporeal intelligence (ie. an angel) easier to get my head around, than the notion of creating matter out of nothing. However, what is matter at its most basic? When you get down to the most basic subatomic particles it starts to get very hard to say whether they is actually something solid/particulate, or whether it is some sort of discrete force/field/wave. And what is a wave/force, when not defined in terms of matter and time?
I think when you break matter down to what defines it, it is its separation from other matter: ie. a subsisting relationship. If you have a single existing subunit of matter, how could you differentiate it from non-existence? It would be very hard to say there is anything there, unless you could say that it is x distance from another thing. So, whatever matter is at its most fundamental, to create it, requires the establishment of two, or more (even an immensely large number) existing notions; and then the establishment of a relationship - both of separation and influence between them. If there were no separation, they would be indistinguishably one as a singularity; if there were no relation/influence, they may as well be said to exist in parallel, non-intersecting dimensions, whose existence could in no way be known.
This notion of matter seems less daunting to me, in respect of its creation, because it does not require an imaginative leap, like trying to imagine an ocean of water pouring out of an empty glass. Rather, on the level of existence, it is conceivable that matter could come out of nothing in a similar way that thoughts are brought about: God establishes notion x and notion y, which are distinguished by a and effect each other in the manner of b. So, it may be that there is no matter, as we perceive it, but rather an immense, highly intricate complexity of interrelated notions, within the mind of an infinite intellect.
I'm going to be honest, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I'm going to have to think about this. Sorry, I don't get to discuss this topic often, and stray away from it because I don't quite understand it...you're teaching me something here...I can feel it. My mind is being blown, but I'm learning.
I guess I never really truly thought about what I believe in, in regards to creating matter out of nothing. I like your analogy thoughts, because...that's kind of the same way. I suppose even though we know the physiological processes of thoughts and that they aren't brought out of nothing...they kind of are.
I wish I had taken more philosophy and theology courses in school...they would have shaped my thinking in a different way.
I would be open for any literature you might recommend on the topic! Might as well start learning now!
Not a bit.
Who says that you have to believe in God (or whatever) to believe in an afterlife or that you could see your loved ones who have passed on already? We're all made up of energy, and since energy cannot be destroyed, who's to say what exactly happens to that energy after one has passed? It annoys the crap out of me when atheists are told that they CAN'T believe in an afterlife. Bullshit. I can believe that the Flying Spaghetti Monster will lift me up into a gigantic bowl of pasta and my loved ones will be sitting on squishy meatballs if I damn well please.
Who says that you have to believe in God (or whatever) to believe in an afterlife or that you could see your loved ones who have passed on already? We're all made up of energy, and since energy cannot be destroyed, who's to say what exactly happens to that energy after one has passed? It annoys the crap out of me when atheists are told that they CAN'T believe in an afterlife. Bullshit. I can believe that the Flying Spaghetti Monster will lift me up into a gigantic bowl of pasta and my loved ones will be sitting on squishy meatballs if I damn well please.
Ah Pascal's wager.
"Pascal's Wager is an argument in apologetic philosophy which was devised by the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician, and physicist Blaise Pascal (1623—1662). It posits that humans all bet with their lives either that God exists or does not exist. Given the possibility that God actually does exist and assuming the infinite gain or loss associated with belief in God or with unbelief, a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.).[SUP][1][/SUP]"
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
A sound choice. But I can't agree.
To answer the OP from my prospective, no. The idea that there could be no god, gives me peace. As for me the idea that my life and experiences up until this time have been lead by a god (any god I know of not just the current idea of God) who has some kind of power to help me but has not or is simply not interested in making life better for everyone is not a god I can fathom or respect. For me the idea that bad things happen in this world because of chance and that good people suffer just as much as others because of things outside our control puts me at ease. I hate idea that there could be some reason for suffering no matter how justified or loving. I also find the idea of a sentient afterlife hard to agree with. We all live on just not in a sentient way.
Also I don't fear being insignificant. I get the feeling many peoples of many cultures have chosen a god for a few reasons the first being the everything has order or happens for a reason which I just touched on. And the idea that humans are some how special and above other living beings or even special in the context of the universe. We are invisible specs on a small spec in a small place in the vast universe and for me that's ok.
To sum up a bit I see the belief in god as an a mortal a choice to believe that we as people are far more important than we really are. And that we need to make up a god or gods to give our own live meaning to be shallow and unnecessary.
So again for me the idea of no god(s) gives me peace.
I think you bring up an interesting point, how can a compassionate and benevolent God exist with so much pain and suffering in the world. I believe that since I haven't suffered an extreme or devastating tragedy, that my perspective is a bit naive, but when I do think about this point, I am taken back to an Alexandre Dumas writing: "There is neither happiness nor misery in the world; there is only the comparison of one state with another, nothing more. He who has felt the deepest grief is best able to experience supreme happiness." I know this concept goes beyond him, but it does give me some sense of content. For me, at this moment in my life, I feel okay with accepting the to know true happiness, you may have to suffer some pain. But I think it also helps that I like to believe that when things happen, they happen for a reason, and that reason always has the best intentions - whether their appearance is immediate or many years later.
It's so interesting how people find peace in the exact opposite of things.
Lastly, "To sum up a bit I see the belief in god as an a mortal a choice to believe that we as people are far more important than we really are. And that we need to make up a god or gods to give our own live meaning to be shallow and unnecessary. " I never thought about this, as believing in a God doesn't give my life meaning...but I suppose in the most basic sense, me believing in a God that has put me here, essential comes down to the fact that I see that God determining or influencing my meaning.
..so far, my mind has been challenged! Thank you!
No, the thought doesn't really bother me. I'm almost certain that if there is a god, which there very well could be, a lot of so called "faithful followers" will be getting chewed out for being absolute bigots in the name of their faith.
I guess personally for me, assuming that a soul exists, it’s even more terrifying not here on Earth when I am alive but in the afterlife because essentially who is keeping order? People/souls can do whatever they want and even if there were established “powers”, their lack of omniscience terrifies me as they may be more susceptible to making mistakes….I feel that if a God exists, everything would be more fair…hate to have to see the notion that “life isn’t fair” apply to the afterlife…of course, I am only basing all of this on a God that is Good, Perfect, and Omniscient.
Why is this somehow less probable than an immortal and infinite, omnipotent skydaddy? How do you wrap your head around that?
The universe just *boop* appearing is about as believable in my opinion.
Perhaps it's that an omnipotent skydaddy is more comforting than the thought the we just *boop*'ed. I guess I haven't been able to accept the thought that something just appeared...but the mere existence of a God is just that as well, I suppose. My thought processing behind us just *boop*'ing here is the same as trying to understand the existence of God.
...I'm more confused now than I was at the start of this thread!
I equate God with universal energy that created everything. The vibrational energy source comes from "God" you can say. Narrow definition of God through religion is too limiting in my opinion. Source energy has no definite face or personality and it exists in a neutral territory that is governed by our free will and choice. The source of much pain and infliction for humanity is duality. Navigating through dark and light aspects of who we are and choosing to make choices consciously or unconsciously defines the individuals path.
It feels to me that the belief in eternal soul requires a man to learn to transcend their inherent dual nature and this process is a long and arduous process through a lifetime; mostly focused on soul growth through various life lessons and trials.
if one follows a belief of no eternal soul; then there exists no greater purpose to better humanity and everyone is left to their own devices and create realities in the world without consequence. This is very un-natural to human kind. Humans have innate curioisity to break down and dissect things through various means such as science, nature, human development, etc...it is as if we are all searching for something but not quite sure what we are searching for. Why are we born with this innate ability to ponder and question and seek if not to find the source of life and ultimately the source of who we are and why we are here. The greatest thinkers, philosophers and scientists seems to all have the same goal - to find the source of it all. This questioning of our existence happens on a global and individual scale. But one thing we can all agree on is that there is something that exists and all our technological and scientific and humanistic efforts seems to all point to finding this source; to make sense of it.
But I would say all the answers do exist and is here on earth. But most importantly the answers are within us. And everybody gets an equal chance to find it within themselves. Once you find it; you stop questioning and you just learn to be - which is enlightenment and total acceptance of our spiritual essence.
It feels to me that the belief in eternal soul requires a man to learn to transcend their inherent dual nature and this process is a long and arduous process through a lifetime; mostly focused on soul growth through various life lessons and trials.
if one follows a belief of no eternal soul; then there exists no greater purpose to better humanity and everyone is left to their own devices and create realities in the world without consequence. This is very un-natural to human kind. Humans have innate curioisity to break down and dissect things through various means such as science, nature, human development, etc...it is as if we are all searching for something but not quite sure what we are searching for. Why are we born with this innate ability to ponder and question and seek if not to find the source of life and ultimately the source of who we are and why we are here. The greatest thinkers, philosophers and scientists seems to all have the same goal - to find the source of it all. This questioning of our existence happens on a global and individual scale. But one thing we can all agree on is that there is something that exists and all our technological and scientific and humanistic efforts seems to all point to finding this source; to make sense of it.
But I would say all the answers do exist and is here on earth. But most importantly the answers are within us. And everybody gets an equal chance to find it within themselves. Once you find it; you stop questioning and you just learn to be - which is enlightenment and total acceptance of our spiritual essence.