Does anyone have a Plan?

ReasonEnduring

ReasonEnduring

Permanent Fixture
MBTI
INFJ
Does anyone have a plan to make the world better?

I mean an actual plan to drastically improve society and counter the dangers the modern world is manifesting?

Given we live in a world where the corrupt and tyrannical can buy or butcher their way to success and democracy is a popularity contest rather than a way of selecting the best and brightest to lead, does anyone have any ideas on how to get to a position to make a BIG difference?

Does anyone know how to make the world better without damaging other people or causing even greater damage and suffering? How do you prevent the corruption of your otherwise noble ideas by the selfish, greedy and malicious?

How do you get the rest of the world to buy into your ideas in the long term, and not end up having them cast aside due to their impractical nature during implementation?

I have a few basic ideas, but its not something I can do alone and I'd love to talk with people who have thought similar thoughts...
 
The issue I think with such things isn't so much how we go about implementing 'better' change, it's defining what 'better' is. Everything is so polarised nowadays that what one sub-group of society deem as for the betterment of others, there's another that spits and rages at the idea.

Admittedly there are exceptions such as the rising popularity of veganism; thanks to the efforts of others to raise awareness and present the reality and figures that people need. As for tackling political systems, it would require a drastic change in the types of people who aspire to such positions more so than anything. From what I've seen of those who do have a government role in mind, they are typically power and wealth-driven individuals - making change is a secondary thought to their drive for their own success and megalomania. If somehow the allure was taken away for such people, we might indeed see a more representative government. Due to the high improbability of that however, I'd say the only other way is to pull a Germany and try to take over the world to instill your ideology.
I'd be interested to know what your ideas are
 
ReasonEnduring said:
Does anyone have a plan to make the world better?

I mean an actual plan to drastically improve society and counter the dangers the modern world is manifesting?

Given we live in a world where the corrupt and tyrannical can buy or butcher their way to success and democracy is a popularity contest rather than a way of selecting the best and brightest to lead, does anyone have any ideas on how to get to a position to make a BIG difference?

Does anyone know how to make the world better without damaging other people or causing even greater damage and suffering? How do you prevent the corruption of your otherwise noble ideas by the selfish, greedy and malicious?

How do you get the rest of the world to buy into your ideas in the long term, and not end up having them cast aside due to their impractical nature during implementation?

I have a few basic ideas, but its not something I can do alone and I'd love to talk with people who have thought similar thoughts...
Click to expand...
What needs solving?
 
A way forward is to develop a simulated universe generator that each of us can download ourselves into. The raw equipment would be eternally self maintaining and would be buried deep inside an asteroid rotating around a gas giant planet for its energy source. It would be located far away from a solar system so that it could last a lot longer than the lifetime of any star. A second of real time would be like thousands of virtual years as well, so the subjective time available would feel infinite. We could live in a shared base universe or each create our own universe either on our own or in communities. The degrees of freedom available would offer far wider ranges of experience than the physical universe and if things go wrong all we have to do is move to a different universe, or to change the one we are in. It would be designed so that no one could be harmed either physically or mentally unless they chose to be. We would be like gods.

Well it’s a dream anyway ....
 
Last edited:
John K said:
A way forward is to develop a simulated universe generator that each of us can download ourselves into. The raw equipment would be eternally self maintaining and would be buried deep inside an asteroid rotating around a gas giant planet for its energy source. It would be located far away from a solar system so that it could last a lot longer than the lifetime of any star. A second of real time would be like thousands of virtual years as well, so the subjective time available would feel infinite. We could live in a shared base universe or each create our own universe either on our own or in communities. The degrees of freedom available would offer far wider ranges of experience than the physical universe and if things go wrong all we have to do is move to a different universe, or to change the one we are in. It would be designed so that no one could be harmed either physically or mentally unless they chose to be. We would be like a gods.

Well it’s a dream anyway ....
Click to expand...
Sandie33 said:
What are your ideas? Tell us your plan.:)
Perhaps we can help.
Click to expand...

Rit4lin said:
The issue I think with such things isn't so much how we go about implementing 'better' change, it's defining what 'better' is. Everything is so polarised nowadays that what one sub-group of society deem as for the betterment of others, there's another that spits and rages at the idea.

Admittedly there are exceptions such as the rising popularity of veganism; thanks to the efforts of others to raise awareness and present the reality and figures that people need. As for tackling political systems, it would require a drastic change in the types of people who aspire to such positions more so than anything. From what I've seen of those who do have a government role in mind, they are typically power and wealth-driven individuals - making change is a secondary thought to their drive for their own success and megalomania. If somehow the allure was taken away for such people, we might indeed see a more representative government. Due to the high improbability of that however, I'd say the only other way is to pull a Germany and try to take over the world to instill your ideology.
I'd be interested to know what your ideas are
Click to expand...

Deleted member 16771 said:
What needs solving?
Click to expand...

Okay, so. In sort, what needs solving? (Sorry in advance for the wall of text). This may be multiple posts.

1) Human suffering
2) The protection of Scientific and Historical truth and through it the advancement of humanities technology and evolution.
3) To do all this whislt gaining the consent of the people to avoid backlash and resistance

I have noticed since moving to the US the considerably large amount of homeless here compared to the UK. That itself has been increasing in the UK I have noticed and this is a bad trend.

I also consider this a bit of a personal crusade because of my wife. She has been homless herself, suffered a great deal by being ignored by society, failed by the education systems and social protections, and the victim of other crimes. She has developed depression and anxiety as a result. Her mother was told by a priest at a church to go prostetute herself for money when she asked for aid.

No one should have to go through that, no one.

Problem is, much goes unreported if it doesn't play into a larger political or media narrative. And whilst here are many well meaning programs many either don't have the reach they need, focus on a single gender or minority, or end up corrupted as a rich person's tax avoidance scheme.

Also we have a serious mental health problem in the world today. My own personal analysis says it stems from a combination of a more individualist driven culture and a lack of a higher purpose often afforded by a faith. People have less hope than in the past, despite having, comparatively, better lives than 100 - 200 years ago.

There has been a lack of investment and understanding of the human 'spirit' and it is often cured with drugs. I feel we need a more mind based appproach, helping people restructure their lives and find meaning in living for those who need it rather than throwing drugs a tthe problem or warm platitudes. There needs to be pathways back into society as well, better education programs, affordable housing and the like.

There is also the changes I've noticed over the past 10 years in society. It dates back further, maybe 20 or 30 years but its gotten worse recently. The push for anti-scientific ideas to push a political ideolody.

Now I'm not blaiming the left or the right (I think a binary political ideology is absurd anyway because you can't cut life in half, its far too complicated for that), and BOTH have been guilty of anti-scientific talk in recent years, ranging from Climate Change Denial, Anti-Vaxxers and more. This actively damages society as a whole and we need to stop conflating opinions from hard scientific facts.

In my opinion we need to get society back on track, get our young better educated and supported, and help those currently suffering find a path back to dignitity.

I am formulating ideas to do this but they are in the early stages.

They are hampered by the fact that

1) As a recent immigrant I can't vote in elections or stand for public office. In 3-6 years I can get citizenship and I plan to go into politics but I can't do that for a while.
2) Funding and general interest. I can't blame people, everyone has their problems but few are thinking on the scale I am.

I do have plans for the foudning of businesses and charities to drive this stuff forward, generate the capital to invest in schools and education and mental health awareness.

I don't believe in unrestricted socialism as you end up with too much power in the hands of a few. This is why I like Democracy and Capitalism because whilst it isn't perfect you can prevent too much power gathering into a small amount of hands. Humanity has never done well when a small few have unlimited power, consent must always come from the people.

You do need adequate protections for them though. Stop monopolies, money in politics at and the like. Easier said than done but it should be the goal even if its taken in small steps.

People need and deserve choice, and the freedom to create better versions of what exists without fear of lawsuits.

Revolution generally leads to more death and suffering though, counter to my first point.

So subtle shifts within the existing system, small steps towards improvement is what I'm looking to achieve.
 
ReasonEnduring said:
Okay, so. In sort, what needs solving? (Sorry in advance for the wall of text). This may be multiple posts.

1) Human suffering
2) The protection of Scientific and Historical truth and through it the advancement of humanities technology and evolution.
3) To do all this whislt gaining the consent of the people to avoid backlash and resistance

I have noticed since moving to the US the considerably large amount of homeless here compared to the UK. That itself has been increasing in the UK I have noticed and this is a bad trend.

I also consider this a bit of a personal crusade because of my wife. She has been homless herself, suffered a great deal by being ignored by society, failed by the education systems and social protections, and the victim of other crimes. She has developed depression and anxiety as a result. Her mother was told by a priest at a church to go prostetute herself for money when she asked for aid.

No one should have to go through that, no one.

Problem is, much goes unreported if it doesn't play into a larger political or media narrative. And whilst here are many well meaning programs many either don't have the reach they need, focus on a single gender or minority, or end up corrupted as a rich person's tax avoidance scheme.

Also we have a serious mental health problem in the world today. My own personal analysis says it stems from a combination of a more individualist driven culture and a lack of a higher purpose often afforded by a faith. People have less hope than in the past, despite having, comparatively, better lives than 100 - 200 years ago.

There has been a lack of investment and understanding of the human 'spirit' and it is often cured with drugs. I feel we need a more mind based appproach, helping people restructure their lives and find meaning in living for those who need it rather than throwing drugs a tthe problem or warm platitudes. There needs to be pathways back into society as well, better education programs, affordable housing and the like.

There is also the changes I've noticed over the past 10 years in society. It dates back further, maybe 20 or 30 years but its gotten worse recently. The push for anti-scientific ideas to push a political ideolody.

Now I'm not blaiming the left or the right (I think a binary political ideology is absurd anyway because you can't cut life in half, its far too complicated for that), and BOTH have been guilty of anti-scientific talk in recent years, ranging from Climate Change Denial, Anti-Vaxxers and more. This actively damages society as a whole and we need to stop conflating opinions from hard scientific facts.

In my opinion we need to get society back on track, get our young better educated and supported, and help those currently suffering find a path back to dignitity.

I am formulating ideas to do this but they are in the early stages.

They are hampered by the fact that

1) As a recent immigrant I can't vote in elections or stand for public office. In 3-6 years I can get citizenship and I plan to go into politics but I can't do that for a while.
2) Funding and general interest. I can't blame people, everyone has their problems but few are thinking on the scale I am.

I do have plans for the foudning of businesses and charities to drive this stuff forward, generate the capital to invest in schools and education and mental health awareness.

I don't believe in unrestricted socialism as you end up with too much power in the hands of a few. This is why I like Democracy and Capitalism because whilst it isn't perfect you can prevent too much power gathering into a small amount of hands. Humanity has never done well when a small few have unlimited power, consent must always come from the people.

You do need adequate protections for them though. Stop monopolies, money in politics at and the like. Easier said than done but it should be the goal even if its taken in small steps.

People need and deserve choice, and the freedom to create better versions of what exists without fear of lawsuits.

Revolution generally leads to more death and suffering though, counter to my first point.

So subtle shifts within the existing system, small steps towards improvement is what I'm looking to achieve.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you just want social democracy.


Here's an idea to play with: liquidity.

What would happen if saving income were made illegal, or if it were capped at a certain proportion of income? There would be more currency circulating in the economy for one thing, and more consumer spending. There might also be much more micro-investment and charitable giving. Are 'savings' even real, or would releasing that amount of currency from the banks simply devalue the currency?

One way to do this is to advance policies that reduce income inequality, because the rich save their money disproportionately. With high income inequality, a lot of purchasing power remains locked away in vaults.


Or imagine this: choice taxes.

Suppose that government gave citizens the choice of what a small proportion of their taxes would go to fund. Space program? Climate change? Whatever, just put some democracy into the exchequer, and create a megaprojects fund that is important to people.


In other words, there's a shitload that can be done simply by tweaking systems of government. Personally, I believe that there ought to be another axis of state power (in addition to executive, legislative & judicial) to deal with very long term planning. It's so odd to me that short-term executive offices get to influence or even change the strategic direction of a whole nation (or even planet).
 
ReasonEnduring said:
Okay, so. In sort, what needs solving? (Sorry in advance for the wall of text). This may be multiple posts.

1) Human suffering
2) The protection of Scientific and Historical truth and through it the advancement of humanities technology and evolution.
3) To do all this whislt gaining the consent of the people to avoid backlash and resistance

I have noticed since moving to the US the considerably large amount of homeless here compared to the UK. That itself has been increasing in the UK I have noticed and this is a bad trend.

I also consider this a bit of a personal crusade because of my wife. She has been homless herself, suffered a great deal by being ignored by society, failed by the education systems and social protections, and the victim of other crimes. She has developed depression and anxiety as a result. Her mother was told by a priest at a church to go prostetute herself for money when she asked for aid.

No one should have to go through that, no one.

Problem is, much goes unreported if it doesn't play into a larger political or media narrative. And whilst here are many well meaning programs many either don't have the reach they need, focus on a single gender or minority, or end up corrupted as a rich person's tax avoidance scheme.

Also we have a serious mental health problem in the world today. My own personal analysis says it stems from a combination of a more individualist driven culture and a lack of a higher purpose often afforded by a faith. People have less hope than in the past, despite having, comparatively, better lives than 100 - 200 years ago.

There has been a lack of investment and understanding of the human 'spirit' and it is often cured with drugs. I feel we need a more mind based appproach, helping people restructure their lives and find meaning in living for those who need it rather than throwing drugs a tthe problem or warm platitudes. There needs to be pathways back into society as well, better education programs, affordable housing and the like.

There is also the changes I've noticed over the past 10 years in society. It dates back further, maybe 20 or 30 years but its gotten worse recently. The push for anti-scientific ideas to push a political ideolody.

Now I'm not blaiming the left or the right (I think a binary political ideology is absurd anyway because you can't cut life in half, its far too complicated for that), and BOTH have been guilty of anti-scientific talk in recent years, ranging from Climate Change Denial, Anti-Vaxxers and more. This actively damages society as a whole and we need to stop conflating opinions from hard scientific facts.

In my opinion we need to get society back on track, get our young better educated and supported, and help those currently suffering find a path back to dignitity.

I am formulating ideas to do this but they are in the early stages.

They are hampered by the fact that

1) As a recent immigrant I can't vote in elections or stand for public office. In 3-6 years I can get citizenship and I plan to go into politics but I can't do that for a while.
2) Funding and general interest. I can't blame people, everyone has their problems but few are thinking on the scale I am.

I do have plans for the foudning of businesses and charities to drive this stuff forward, generate the capital to invest in schools and education and mental health awareness.

I don't believe in unrestricted socialism as you end up with too much power in the hands of a few. This is why I like Democracy and Capitalism because whilst it isn't perfect you can prevent too much power gathering into a small amount of hands. Humanity has never done well when a small few have unlimited power, consent must always come from the people.

You do need adequate protections for them though. Stop monopolies, money in politics at and the like. Easier said than done but it should be the goal even if its taken in small steps.

People need and deserve choice, and the freedom to create better versions of what exists without fear of lawsuits.

Revolution generally leads to more death and suffering though, counter to my first point.

So subtle shifts within the existing system, small steps towards improvement is what I'm looking to achieve.
Click to expand...

Fascinating. Some questions off the top - by no means complete but here are some of the challenges that go with such an agenda
  • Ideological: There are competing ways that these issues are expressed and tackled in a democracy. Would you enforce a particular ideology and only allow democratic choice within it's boundaries? If not, then control will contiue to be bounced back and forward between the prevelant alternatives and no long term plans will survive.
  • Leadership: How would people be chosen as leaders. At the moment this seems to be a fundamental flaw in our political systems - we seem to be unable to choose political leaders who are actually more than pedestrian, or maverick. I can't see any able but sensitive person going anywhere near such roles, because they'd just fry in the light of the media attention and the soundbite culture.
  • Education: How do we educate people to be effective leaders focused on the right ideology and objectives, and with the right methods of delivering them? And how do we educate people so that they exercise their democratic duties effectively. Similarly with the selection of people to lead in our corporate world.
  • Timescales: Most Western governments only last a few years, but the achievement of the sort of goals you are shooting at needs a much longer timeframe than that - decades, maybe a century of more. Our governments only think in a focused way as long as the next election. Businesses aren't greatly different because they have to deliver shareholder value in the immediate future - if they don't they risk getting taken over and their value extracted and dispersed. This tends to happen more with public companies rather than privately owned firms, but the latter can be impacted by idiosyncratic private shareholders, problems of inheritance etc. We would need to change the balance of government and corporate success factors to favour long term goals rather than short term wins.
  • Sacrifice: I think it's very likely that the goals to achive what you are shooting for would require most of us to sacrifice present benefits for future ones - some of these would go to our descendents not to ourselves. It's hard to get people to vote for something that disadvantages them in favour of people who won't be born for 30 years and more - no matter what they say, they will likely change their minds when it affects the well-being of themselves and children. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it isn't an easy thing to do.
 
Daustus said:
OOOOoooo fascinating idea. But who watches the watchmen?
Click to expand...
The Existential Threat Council answers to no-one. :smilingimp:

Funnily enough I explored this in my fiction. The elder race had a council of psychics who could foresee future catastrophes and figure out ways of manipulating fate to avoid them, and so the whole civilisation was built around prophesy. Of course, short-term executive power ended up challenging the seers, because ultimately predictive power isn't 'real', be it psychic or scientific. I don't know how such a body could be held empirically accountable.


P.S. John just isolated the same problem we're talking about here.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Sounds like you just want social democracy.


Here's an idea to play with: liquidity.

What would happen if saving income were made illegal, or if it were capped at a certain proportion of income? There would be more currency circulating in the economy for one thing, and more consumer spending. There might also be much more micro-investment and charitable giving. Are 'savings' even real, or would releasing that amount of currency from the banks simply devalue the currency?

One way to do this is to advance policies that reduce income inequality, because the rich save their money disproportionately. With high income inequality, a lot of purchasing power remains locked away in vaults.


Or imagine this: choice taxes.

Suppose that government gave citizens the choice of what a small proportion of their taxes would go to fund. Space program? Climate change? Whatever, just put some democracy into the exchequer, and create a megaprojects fund that is important to people.


In other words, there's a shitload that can be done simply by tweaking systems of government. Personally, I believe that there ought to be another axis of state power (in addition to executive, legislative & judicial) to deal with very long term planning. It's so odd to me that short-term executive offices get to influence or even change the strategic direction of a whole nation (or even planet).
Click to expand...

The problem is it would never be accepted by the people.

You can't limit peoples ability to acquire wealth because:

1) Its against human nature. Humans want to be rewarded for what they see as their work. They are also greedy and want as much as they can get.
2) The exisiting Capitalist powers will not go down without a fight, which could do more damamge in the long term.
3) It assumes the government isn't corrupt. Which it is.

I have an ideal system which is partly democractic, part technocratic, but I can't see a path to it at the moment.

Theoretical ideas are nice, but the practicals of real life make it more difficult.

John K said:
Fascinating. Some questions off the top - by no means complete but here are some of the challenges that go with such an agenda
  • Ideological: There are competing ways that these issues are expressed and tackled in a democracy. Would you enforce a particular ideology and only allow democratic choice within it's boundaries? If not, then control will contiue to be bounced back and forward between the prevelant alternatives and no long term plans will survive.
  • Leadership: How would people be chosen as leaders. At the moment this seems to be a fundamental flaw in our political systems - we seem to be unable to choose political leaders who are actually more than pedestrian, or maverick. I can't see any able but sensitive person going anywhere near such roles, because they'd just fry in the light of the media attention and the soundbite culture.
  • Education: How do we educate people to be effective leaders focused on the right ideology and objectives, and with the right methods of delivering them? And how do we educate people so that they exercise their democratic duties effectively. Similarly with the selection of people to lead in our corporate world.
  • Timescales: Most Western governments only last a few years, but the achievement of the sort of goals you are shooting at needs a much longer timeframe than that - decades, maybe a century of more. Our governments only think in a focused way as long as the next election. Businesses aren't greatly different because they have to deliver shareholder value in the immediate future - if they don't they risk getting taken over and their value extracted and dispersed. This tends to happen more with public companies rather than privately owned firms, but the latter can be impacted by idiosyncratic private shareholders, problems of inheritance etc. We would need to change the balance of government and corporate success factors to favour long term goals rather than short term wins.
  • Sacrifice: I think it's very likely that the goals to achive what you are shooting for would require most of us to sacrifice present benefits for future ones - some of these would go to our descendents not to ourselves. It's hard to get people to vote for something that disadvantages them in favour of people who won't be born for 30 years and more - no matter what they say, they will likely change their minds when it affects the well-being of themselves and children. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it isn't an easy thing to do.
Click to expand...

1) You are absolutely right. I'm still trying to square this one. Its also a case of introducing changes to a democratic system withouth its rejection sooner or later.
Ideally any solution needs to be non-partisan, acceptable to Conservative and Liberal alike, kind of like how the NHS is held up by both the Tories and Labour in the UK (yes the Tores have a habit of under funding it, but they can't get rid of it because its so popular).

2) Again this comes back to one. Ideally I'd like to see people will long term vision. But again, I have to work within the framework we currently have, so the best I can do is try to find likeminded people to join together to make changes.

3) Education is the solution itself. Well informed people are shown to make better decisions. More effort and support during younger years will pay back with better leaders in the future.

4) Hah, yes. No this is multigenerational. Improvement is continous, however I'm looking to see what can be manifested in my lifetime to begin.

5) I am already planning to do that for my own family. I intend to give up the ability for a more comfortable life in exchange for educating my children to be better members of society and help them navigate the changing world (unlike my previous generations *cough*)
I can only hope to find others willing to do the same.

That said, I also want to encourage the greedy of people to do the right thing. If you make it easier to do the right thing or more profitable, people will often choose that.

Slap taxes on oil, given financial insentives for investors investing in Green technology (a tax break perhaps?), same for infrastructure and roads, the same for investing in mental health programs etc.

Get the rich to willing put their money into things that beenfit society. Raise the money through good old fashion capitalism ensure the rich get their return but at the same time investing their money in projects that make a difference.
 
What we need is a huge fucking catastrophic war, where every third man is killed, and then surf the reconstruction spirit wave after peace is declared.

All of this shit is possible, but people simply don't have the guts or the communitarian spirit for it.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
What we need is a huge fucking catastrophic war, where every third man is killed, and then surf the reconstruction spirit wave after peace is declared.

All of this shit is possible, but people simply don't have the guts or the communitarian spirit for it.
Click to expand...
What a professional opportunity.
 
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