Caricatures of Muhammad | INFJ Forum

Caricatures of Muhammad

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Krumplenump, Mar 13, 2010.

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  1. They had every right to and the reaction from elements in the Muslim world were unjustified

    48.5%
  2. They had every right to but the reaction from elements in the Muslim world were justified

    27.3%
  3. They should not have published them because they were offensive

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  4. They should not have published them because a violent reaction was an obvious outcome

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  5. I'm indifferent

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  1. Krumplenump

    Krumplenump Community Member

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    Half a decade old, but it's still a very inflammatory topic in some places.

    What are your opinions on the caricatures being published in the first place, the response from areas in the Muslim world and the response to Muslim reactions from various western sources be it apologetic or defensive.


     
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  2. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    They should be flattered, people used to not care enough to do that. There are caricatures of Jesus, of Buddha, of practically anybody influential enough to deserve ridicule. All such cult systems are based on worshiping a hero, so all heroes must be denounced, eventually, in order for people to finally realize we don't need heroes anymore. It will take some time.
     
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    Krumplenump

    Krumplenump Community Member

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    The point you make about the caricatures of other religious figures is bang on.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8565610.stm
     
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  4. NeverAmI

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    In Islam, I thought the whole point of not having pictures or statues of Muhammad was to take the worship away from him, because only God deserves the praise/worship/idolism.

    If that is the case, then it seems as though some people are confusing the idea in Islam. Especially considering how common the name Muhammad is.
     
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  5. Jasmine85

    Jasmine85 Regular Poster

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    If some group of people want to hate, then they'll see insults in all sorts of things. Whatever it takes to fuel their fire.
     
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  6. the

    the Si master race.
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    From what i have heard muslims arent supposed to depict anyone artisiticly and that is why they use architecture as their creative outlet.
     
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  7. muir

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    I think the elephant in the room is immigration

    How do you harmonise areas which have people of different cultures/belief systems?

    Hostility towards immigrants....will it help integrate them or will it make them angry and more isolated?
     
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  8. the

    the Si master race.
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    I dont think you can harmonize cultures without creating a new culture that both groups will have to settle on.
     
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  9. Solongo

    Solongo Well-known member

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    Its common in Muslim art to not depict humans at all and focus on the divine. This is a time issue as Muslim religion has very little tolerance for modernism.
     
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  10. Norton

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    A free society demands free speech. If a culture, country, society doesn't like it, tough.
     
  11. muir

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    I'm not sure islam is any less able to adapt to modernity than any other religion

    I think it depends on how literal people want to get with their chosen 'message'

    Perhaps instead of saying this is the literal word of god from the mouth of such and such prophet, perhaps people need to look at the spirit in which the prophet intended their message

    For example, Mohammed was creating a message which fitted with his time. This was centuries ago and as we can all plainly see, things change

    Islam has messages of peace and tolerance within it just as christianity has. This seems to be the spirit in which many prophets, as enlightened people, intend their message to be.

    If people focus too much on taking things at face value (literal fundamentalism) then you are going to have all sorts of problems. If people look at the example set by a prophet and the spirit in which they intended their message then i think there can be some very useful insights and perhaps some valid ideas about how we should live our lives

    There are fundamentalist christians just as there are fundalmentalist muslims and there are christians who live their life in a spirit of peace and tolerance, just as there are muslims who do the same.
     
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  12. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    The artist had the right to draw this cartoon, and the muslims have the right to be upset. Seriously what did cartoonist expect to happen, for the muslims to send him cards saying this is a realy great picture.
     
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    #12 Barnabas, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
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  13. muir

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    I agree that free speech is important in a free society

    I would argue our society is perhaps not as free as we would like to think it is, but that would be going off on a tangent

    I wonder though, in a pragmatic way, whether going on the offensive against Islam is the best way of dealing with the cultural contrasts (as well as all the political baggage due to the conflict over oil and over palestine)

    Perhaps it is tough love, or perhaps it will encourage more division and violence
     
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    #13 muir, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  14. Stu

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    I did not vote

    They had every right to and the non violent reactions were justified.
     
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  15. NeverAmI

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    My understanding is that there is no doubt to the orthodox Muslim that the Quran is the word of god, the only true word of god, and there will never be another prophet to provide further clarification.

    As for the literal interpretation of the words, that is largely contested by scholars.

    Geometry shows a heavy influence in arabesque architecture. As to the true origins of the various architectural types, a lot comes from influence of other areas, the Middle-East was quite the melting pot of cultures in the past. I believe a lot of influence came from times prior to the founding of Islam as well although I agree that it probably hit a nice climax during that time.

    Goths also had a heavy architectural style due to limited expression from religion as well.
     
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  16. NeverAmI

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  17. muir

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    It might seem set in stone that muslims must believe that the koran is the literal word of god, but i think all things are eroded with time

    I'm not sure how much religion has influenced architecture, that is an interesting topic in itself. It has certainly been a patron of architecture

    The inability of muslims to depict living things lead to a lot of abstract decorations of their buildings.

    Islam adopted arch building from earlier sources and from Islam it went into Europe and the Romanesque style. There has been a lot of cross pollination between christianity and islam and it is possible the way muslims pray is in fact taken from early christianity.

    Maybe the two are not so different at heart
     
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  18. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    interesting thing, not sure if it's related or not but, the Kor'an isn't supposed to be translated out of it's original language. It was mentioned to me that it would lose some of it's meaning if it was.

    The Bible is similar, though you don't lose to much of it's meaning you lose some of it's poetry and how the writters played on words.

    also muir, there both Abrahamic religions so there bound to share some views and culture.
     
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    #18 Barnabas, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  19. NeverAmI

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    Sharia law does a pretty damn good job of ensuring the nations don't stray too far from their heritage. However, Sharia is not based solely on the Quran.

    Sharia law scares the shit out of me. Amputation, stoning, flogging, beheading, etc.

    Of course, it all depends on the country's implementation.



    5:38 As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

    Waalssariqu waalssariqatufaiqtaAAoo aydiyahuma jazaan bimakasaba nakalan mina Allahi waAllahuAAazeezun hakeemun
    [​IMG]



    5:39 But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    Faman taba min baAAdi thulmihiwaaslaha fa-inna Allaha yatoobu AAalayhiinna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun

    [​IMG]
     
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    #19 NeverAmI, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  20. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    Agreed.
     
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