Aspergers or INFJ?

[~jet]

The problem with Aspergers and INFJ typing is that we feel. We feel deeply and can't do a damn thing about it. We feel, we empathize, but we have no way of actually expressing it at all.

I have strong empathy for those I hardly even know sometimes. So bad it makes me physically ill. But I can't release it by actually talking with the person. I just know they have a problem going on, but I can't do anything about it.


But like I said, I mostly have the Asperger's diagnosis because of my crazy obsessions (I talk to squirrels too, and sometimes they talk back.) Also my social ineptitude, and wooden speech if you heard me talk in person.

Guh, in some ways this does sound like me. I find myself empathizing with starving artists; even whittling away at my own personal expenses to set up sliver-sized commission accounts to spend keeping them fed in exchange for artworks. I don't know if this is the same thing by any stretch of the imagination... but my empathy is strong enough that I cringe at accident scenes and feel phantom pains over other people's injuries, et cetera. I do have extraordinary difficulty becoming comfortable with people, but it's not out of lack of desire for it... and in the rather rare cases where I do, they do get the brunt of my emotions, desires to be around people and be good for people, et cetera. May be a bit overwhelming I'm sure.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I spent like half an hour reading about aspergers after I saw this thread. It appears that there are a variety of traits that may be placed along a continuum, and the INFJ temparment may tend toward aspergers on that continuum for some traits.

I will say though that generally, especially for myself, INFJs are very drawn to subtle social cues, often to the point that it becomes distressing. INFJs are also very typically good with metaphor and metaphorical thinking, particularly those with relatively strong Ni, and that is something that people with Aspergers struggle with. These are only two examples of all the things you could go through and look at.

I was shocked and somewhat disturbed by how many of the traits I had in myself, especially things like taking people literally when I shouldn't or making contextual references that nobody else can understand. I actually do this often. The difference, though, is that I can realize the mistake I made or even avoid it because I have the capacity not to act that way even if it is my first inclination.

This makes me wonder if there is a continuum that can be drawn where being INFJ either tends towards Aspergers, makes you more likely to have it, or imitates it in some way. That is an extremely complex question though.


My official answer is that if you aren't having any problems, don't worry about it. If you are having problems, address them on an issue by issue basis.

What this tells me is that even though the diagnosis/detection of asperger's is made through behavioural cues - Asperger's is fundamentally defined by a distinct absence of certain areas of cognition, which lead to distinct behaviours.

The fact that INFJs and people with Aspergers may have many behavioural similarities in some individuals does not mean that Introverted, Intuitive, Feeling, Judging temperaments are interchangeable with an inability to empathise or notice behavioural cues indicating mood.

This would be like saying everyone who sneezes has the swine flue.

 

[MindYourHead]

The problem with Aspergers and INFJ typing is that we feel. We feel deeply and can't do a damn thing about it. We feel, we empathize, but we have no way of actually expressing it at all.

I have strong empathy for those I hardly even know sometimes. So bad it makes me physically ill. But I can't release it by actually talking with the person. I just know they have a problem going on, but I can't do anything about it.


But like I said, I mostly have the Asperger's diagnosis because of my crazy obsessions (I talk to squirrels too, and sometimes they talk back.) Also my social ineptitude, and wooden speech if you heard me talk in person.

Thanks for sharing that.
You have given me a little insight into how my Son may feel better than anyone.
He was 8 years old when I met his Mother. He is now 20, but I have never been able to get in his head as they say to know how to relate well with him.
It's frustrating to me as an INFJ that I can't easily pick up on his cues as to what he is thinking since he doesn't express them as openly.
We get along great, just that it has been hard to share interests.

 

[Holden On]

The problem with Aspergers and INFJ typing is that we feel. We feel deeply and can't do a damn thing about it. We feel, we empathize, but we have no way of actually expressing it at all.

I have strong empathy for those I hardly even know sometimes. So bad it makes me physically ill.

I don't know a lot about Asperger's, but from what I understand, psychologists are starting to think, now, that this is the root of the apparent lack of empathy in people with Asperger's. It's not that they aren't empathetic, but in fact that they are SO empathetic that it overwhelms them to the point that they can't process it. Does this sound accurate from your experience?

 

[~jet]

I don't know a lot about Asperger's, but from what I understand, psychologists are starting to think, now, that this is the root of the apparent lack of empathy in people with Asperger's. It's not that they aren't empathetic, but in fact that they are SO empathetic that it overwhelms them to the point that they can't process it. Does this sound accurate from your experience?

I would say this scenario affects me to a modest degree, though I have no idea if that has anything to do with INFJness or Aspergers.

 

[NiennaLadyOfTears]

I don't know a lot about Asperger's, but from what I understand, psychologists are starting to think, now, that this is the root of the apparent lack of empathy in people with Asperger's. It's not that they aren't empathetic, but in fact that they are SO empathetic that it overwhelms them to the point that they can't process it. Does this sound accurate from your experience?

This sounds very accurate, at least for me.

Here's a story to illustrate.

A year and a half ago, I was playing on an online game as a character who was romantically involved with another character. Over MSN the guy started giving me all the details about his life and how everyone hated him and how he could never keep a girlfriend, how his ex "girlfriend" actually wasn't a girl at all. He kept wanting me to be his girlfriend, but I was already in a relationship. I didn't know what to do. When he got a headache, I would know it because I would get it the same place, at the same time. It got to the point where I had to break off the character relationship because my empathy for the guy was making me physically sick to the point where I couldn't function.

It's hard to really deep-down get to know an Aspie. Either for some reason we try to latch on to someone too tightly just to try to have some friend, or the over emphasis on our specialized interests gets in the way. Over the years I have gotten somewhat better at realizing that just because someone is interested in Lord of the Rings, it doesn't mean that they are interested in it to the same extent that I am (or actually, now, used to be.) But it took many times of trying and failing to be socially appropriate to come to that conclusion.

I would say that people with Aspergers can come in all types. My husband also has Aspergers, and he's ENFP. He has a driving need for teh social life that I don't have. It's not about whether or not we can actually interact socially, it's about what our basic needs are. Myself, I can do without other people, except for my husband, for the most part, whereas for him, he's always trying to contact someone.

Because Aspies have a hard time making friends, the ones who do make the effort to be our friend are considered our friends lifelong, and it hurts us extremely deeply when they have done something to offend our sensitivities. Also, if someone has done wrong to them, be it a present or a past wrong, we tend to become extremely angry and bitter towards the people who wronged our friend. Other than that, while we may become frustrated with life sometimes, it takes quite a bit to really tick us off; but offend someone who has befriended us and you have an enemy for life.

It is for this reason that I say we empathize too deeply.

Aspergers never goes away, but there is some success with realizing what you've done wrong socially and trying to try another approach. However sometimes we go the other direction. Where I once couldn't stop talking about Lord of the Rings (and I didn't make any friends that way, with the exception of my husband) the next time I tried to stay away from the topic in hopes people might like me better. But then I didn't have anything to talk about, so people ended up thinking I was just a boring person and didn't spend time with me at all or even try to. Now, at almost 28 years old, I'm attempting college for the 4th time and trying to come at it with a more balanced approach. I'm not afraid to admit that I was once completely obsessed with Lord of the Rings, but I leave it at that.

Aspies don't know what questions to ask other people. Minor chit chat bores us. It isolates us from other people and we don't know what to do about it. But when someone can help us bridge the gap, they have our loyalty forever.

 

[DoveAlexa]

Just for those getting mini heart-attacks reading the asperger's symptoms: I have a feeling that some of the aspie traits are analogous to the same traits of people who are just less developed in talking to people etc which is very common. The traits are similar but developed because of a different root cause.

Think of the wings of a dragonfly and the wings of a bird: they are very similar, and produce the same overall function, but came about through different evolutionary means, and have as many differences or more as similarities.

Asperger's is suppose to be rare, so I wouldn't worry.

 

[all things pass]

This thread needs a bump.

 

[D23rdJedi]

Hi,

39yo male INFJ with Asperger's here. Thought I'd chime in as some had said they would like to hear from someone presenting the way I do.

My Fe is actually very strong and can cause a lot of anxiety for me, I have even had breakdowns, hospitalisation and electroconvulsive therapy because of this anxiety (during my late teens).

I think my condition makes me obsessive and uncomfortable socially and Fe puts a magnifying glass or crystal ball on the things about people that make me uncomfortable, but same as for all other INFJs it is a gift that gives me compassion. I have worked as a care worker for people with ID and Autism and that has really helped me normalise my life. I think if an INFJ with Asperger's can figure out something helpful that gives you peace of mind then there is balance between these two worlds.

Having Asperger's does not always entail having zero empathy, but it definitely does usually bring social akwardness, obsession with particular subjects and hyperactivity. (All things that INFJs are familiar with)

 

[Zola]

I posted awhile back about the autism spectrum, so I'm glad to find this thread.

As a young child, I fit the description of "Asperger's" and INTJ type. I seemed "old" for my years, intellectual, an encyclopedia of knowledge, fixated on my interests, socially inept, stand-offish, serious, and a perfectionist. So, what happened? In part, hormones. I became interested in boys physically. I became interested in girls emotionally. I needed friends. I cultivated a social life. I married and had children. I give and receive love freely. I was lonely as an INTJ. I am happy as an INFJ.

So, you say autism never goes away? Well, then, I couldn't have had it. Something else must have been blocking my ability to connect with people. My guess? I was highly sensitive. Criticism or rejection hurt me profoundly. I hated conflict. I could easily detect superficiality, and I despised it. I didn't know how to get my own emotional needs met, so I had nothing left to give others. I lacked a skill set.

Through life experiences, I became able to "get out of my own head" and understand other people's perspectives. I stopped judging. I accepted different viewpoints. Truth became multiple shades of gray, not black and white. Harmony became most important. My confidence grew. Criticism became nothing personal.

Sometimes I wish I were more logical and less emotional, but I revel in the strength and beauty of my emotions, which give me great creativity. I have lots of friends, but I still enjoy nature and solitude.

Behavior similar to Asperger's Syndrome is not always caused by autism. Social difficulties can be overcome. I am a living example. Behavior therapy is helpful. Being able to see yourself objectively, being mindful, having the power to choose your thoughts and feelings: These are the means to happy relationships.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger]

According to IDR Labs, Thomas Jefferson and Ludwig Wittgenstein were thought to be apsies and are INFJ.