why isn't there MORE anarchy in the world? | INFJ Forum

why isn't there MORE anarchy in the world?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by TinyBubbles, Apr 15, 2010.

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  1. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    don't you ever wonder why there isn't more chaos in the world? why people get along as well as they do, why we generally cooperate - why anarchy and disruption are atypical? people say all the time that bad things happen in the world, and of course they do, but if you consider the proportion of events happening everywhere, to the actual amount of destruction that occurs, it is usually a small fraction of the whole, committed by a small part of the population. why don't most people do wrong?

    you could put it down to economic & political stability, but I don't think that would explain everything, because even in places where there is alot of strife, on an individual basis, people treat each other relatively kindly. eg. stabbings, shootings, murders, thefts, even insults and verbal abuse, are exceptions rather than the norm, and you have to wonder where our general restraint is coming from. is it an inherent morality? or a fear of being punished? why don't we fully exercise our freedom of action by destabilizing events?

    think about on this very forum, why there aren't more trolls. anyone anywhere could systematically target every single thread on here and create such an annoying problem that the mods couldn't keep up- the forum would cease to be what it was, and even if it remained open, many of the members would probably leave. why doesn't this kind of thing happen (frequently)? especially on a platform as relatively anonymous as the internet?

    why are people polite - why do you help others instead of hurt them? WHY is cooperation preferable to non-cooperation?


     
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  2. IndigoSensor

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    Why isn't there more anarchy? I honestly feel like there is far too much as it is across the board.

    I like to think that most people, are indeed good people, and keep peace because they care about others.
     
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  3. OP
    TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    there probably is too much, but the potential is always extremely high; it's nowhere near as bad as it could be.

    i think people care about each other too - but caring doesn't always equate to doing good things, and what your caring is motivated by is also important. if you care because it hurts you to see others in pain, then aren't you in some ways only caring about your own reflected pain?
     
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    #3 TinyBubbles, Apr 15, 2010
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  4. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    Because we are herd animals.
     
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  5. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    I'm not much of a philosopher, but there is an order to all things. There are natural laws. Animals (and humans are animals) have inherent instincts for their survival--an internal code of behaviors to aid in survival and passing on of genes..

    I don't think that animals or people (generally) do things that they feel are unnecessary as it's a waste of energy and/or could pose a potential risk that could be avoided..

    Most people don't steal and rob because they are able to make a living without doing these things--to do them, would be to cause risk to themselves in their society so the actions aren't deemed necessary.

    There are places in the world now where violence and destruction are the norm--where it is a violent anarchy.

    Most people don't accost others because humans are social animals who to some extent, are dependant on one another. Maybe in places where violent anarchy is the norm, people have stopped living interdependantly. I'm not sure what exactly would have caused that. But it's worth looking into.
     
    #5 acd, Apr 15, 2010
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  6. NeverAmI

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    Yup, we are a social being. Our own infancy requires social structure or we do not survive.

    That social aspect is there from the moment we are born. The majority of us crave *some* level of social interaction. Ernest Becker covered that pretty well in one of his books when discussing the behavior of apes versus men, in that men are much more social.

    There are probably some good anthropology books out there that discuss that topic. I intend to look deeper into it at some point.

    Good question, May!
     
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  7. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    Yes, I think there is a certain tribal aspect (which is a good thing), but I also think something deeper is at work, perhaps connected to a connection to natural law. I recall various types of "two-way" literature that emerged in many, many cultures early on. These articulate two paths...a right way of living and a wrong way. It seems to me this may ultimately center around a basic respect for self and others, connected to a spiritual sense that is more integrated (intellect, ego, spirit) and yet still highly practical and earthy. This type of thought has evolved into many of the social norms we see today and even, in many cases, law. I do not think this wisdom is worth questioning...it benefits from a very long view, observation, and wisdom.
     
    #7 randomsomeone, Apr 15, 2010
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  8. Jack

    Jack Community Member

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    Well, we are herd animals to some extent, but other times we ask ourselves "is my metaphorical herd that I follow going the right way?" a lot of people have a moral code that they follow, be it their own, or something they believe is objective, or maybe they "follow their heart" without any overarching law from themselves or elsewhere. Most people do want to be "good people" in general I think.

    I wouldn't Disregard ideological origins as a root cause of many behaviors.

    Of course then when people who are very Machiavellian find themselves in such a world, they find it generally to their advantage to appear good enough.
     
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    #8 Jack, Apr 15, 2010
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  9. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    It's in our genes, to a large extent, to cooperate. Notwithstanding us introverts, humans are social beings endowed with at least a modicum of intelligence. More often than not, we act in our own perceived best interest. This usually involves cooperation with others, which tends to be the most efficient and optimum path. The more advanced societies among us have implemented formal systems of law and, despite the inefficiencies of litigiousness and hefty legal costs (I just sent a $5,800 check to my lawyer today), things seem to work better than they did, for example, for the Vikings or under Vlad the Impaler, or even today in Port Moresby. That is to say, laws set the boundaries but allow for freedom (chaos?) therebetween.
     
    #9 Norton, Apr 15, 2010
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  10. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    We get on so well because of:

    Centuries and milenia of trouble-making genes being weeded out through exclusion from society, executions (death penalties), vengance killing, failure to have and raise children, etc.

    What's left is us - affable and socially oriented humans.
     
  11. muir

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    Anarchy isn't a bad thing

    The worlds conflicts are not caused by anarchy, they are caused by people competing

    In other words you could say that the conflict in the world is caused due to a lack of anarchy

    Of course governments will use the term 'anarchy' as a pejorative word to mean chaos; this is of course propaganda to stop people considering other ways of ordering society

    There is plenty of information about various anarchist ideas of ordering society on the internet. Common themes in anarchy are: equality, respect and fairness

    These values conflict with capitalism. When there are breakthroughs related to these values they come despite capitalism NOT because of it (eg the civil rights movement, the emancipation of women, gay rights etc all of which are resisted by the state)

    They come through the efforts of the people because most people value these things; governments concede these rights to the people because they have felt threatened enough by the people

    One day society will evolve to a state of anarchism.....this process is not a 'decent into anarchism' it is a rise
     
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    #11 muir, Apr 15, 2010
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  12. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Simple. More than half the population is J types.
     
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  13. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    Yup and with the huge amount of SJ's. Who wouldn't let that happen.
     
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    TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    good point, I agree completely, disruption can lead to progress, and not just chaos. in some ways I guess we actually need the hell raisers of society to keep us moving forward (morally and technologically), and not stagnating at one neat controlled point. thank god for the social deviants then, and people who don't agree with the status quo; although their beliefs may be technically unfeasible (as of yet), their passion is probably overall very healthy for humanity as a group.

    it's probably a balance though, since obviously too many of such people will cause excessive damage to the stability of society --and i'm betting what most people want more than anything else in life, is stability and safety.
     
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  15. muir

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    How stable and safe do you think most people in capitalist society feel? Depression and anxiety are widespread

    The countries that are being exploited by capitalist countries....how stable or safe are they feeling right now?

    Why are anarchist ideas unfeasible? We put a man on the moon...why can't we create a fair society?

    We can, there are plenty of people with very progressive ideas but change is not on the agenda....look at what a struggle it has been to get governments to pay attention to environmental issues (remember that government works for big business) and even now they mostly just pay lip service

    They are keeping change off the agenda. They control the media and therefore they effectively are holding the mouthpiece....the internet is a threat to this hence various efforts by governments to restrict the internet.

    They want to portray change as dangerous and threatening. Is votes for women dangerous or threatening? NO but many women had to campaign hard to get this. Was the abolition of slavery dangerous or threatening? No but it took campaigning by people

    These things were all good for the people, but not for the power elites....they do not like handing power away

    If you want a stable society then you need to create a society that everyone has an equal stake in. Capitalist society is, in a nutshell, essentially the guy above dumping on the guy below. This degrades everyone because one is reduced to drudgery and the other must act inhumanly to escape drudgery by imposing the drudgery on the other person; what this leads to is the ruthless people climbing to the top where they set the terms of work and pay....and you can bet your ass they will keep the lions share to themselves

    Inequality is the foundation of capitalism....that is why criminals of all types are created in this kind of society, because it brings out the worst in people; it encourages competition not cooperation

    DESPITE this most people still cooperate because they are basically decent and want to live together peacefully and cooperation is what they do naturally
     
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  16. IndigoSensor

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    One reason why I want to hug them sometimes (more so the SFJ's) :hug:

    I am not gonna lie, I REALLY hate disorder, in almost any form.
     
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  17. muir

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    The argument is really very simple

    If you believe that humans are entirely selfish then you believe that free markets are the best reflection of human nature because they are all about competition.....'the law of the jungle', 'dog eat dog', 'the survival of the fittest', 'greed is good' etc

    If you believe that humans can be selfish but that there is another side to human nature.....one of kindness and generosity then you recognise that a society which is about competition and not cooperation is not reflective of human nature because it is only reflecting one aspect of human nature.......therefore it is a perversion

    The reason why so many people are feeling unhappy or unsafe is because they are living in a society which does not reflect their innate nature as a human being

    anarchism is about finding a way to create a society which reflects the more positive cooperative side of human nature and nurturing the kindness and generosity
     
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  18. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    I think human nature is in-group cooperativeness with out-group competitiveness.

    We need a team and we need other teams to compete with.
     
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  19. muir

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    Thats regressing again. What about trying to overcome that?
     
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  20. Blase

    Blase Regular Poster

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    I used to be somewhat of an anarchist myself, but I guess you could say I gave up hope in a way. I realized I was projecting the way I wish the world was onto other people, when in reality no matter how great my ideals sounded to me, in the real world with real people, I doubt it can ever happen. you can find enough good and cooperative people to create small anarchist societies and communes, though even that can be difficult, but whenever it gets to be on a large scale somebody will always be there to mess things up. as people who generally dislike conflict, I'm sure many INFJs are quick to lable competition as a bad thing. but really thats just our own opinion. competition is a fact of nature, its not really good or bad, and will likely always exist in one way or another. I think society is evolving and improving, but very very slowly. perhaps there will be a near-utopian world in the future, but it'll take a long time.
     
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