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Why DON'T you believe in other gods?
- Thread starter Apone
- Start date
[MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION] Yeah, I think most places face what you're talking about. Also, I don't see how what country we're all from makes any difference. It's much the same everywhere. As for Ireland...Catholic vs Protestant? You do realise how vicious that got right? Also the past decades of kiddy fiddling in the church? No, I understand all of it, I just believe that a lot of it comes down to sick, evil, powerhungry people. There are a lot of good christians out there accomplishing good things, it just doesn't attract the same kind of attention.
[MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] I wasn't directly talking about you, so you can calm down now. I didn't like your orignial post because it didn't explain much of what you actually thought, ad well, I don't need to explain myself, I just used the thumbs down button. I had no desire to discuss it with you...YOU were the one that decided to call me out and draw attention to it. I've got thumbs down, I just go meh...they didnt like my comment...whatever. I did in fact like (both literally and the button) your further explanation of your beleifs...I was genuinely interested in what you thought. I don't necessarily agree with you, but whatever. And yes, I do feel like sometimes people in discussions like this do get kind of immature in their wording....it's usually because too many emotions are involved.
ACTUALLY...what you quoted was MY OPINION OF WHAT I BELIEVE. It had nothing to do with acd, if you can believe it or not. I have a ton of atheist friends, a lot of who like to tear down christians in arguments...I was also refrencing all of them. That quoted post was MY REPSONSE to the thread....not anyone posting in this thread. If you are entitled to your opinion....so am I.
Telling me I have little idea of what I'm actually talking about makes no sense. I've already said I have huge experience with christians and the church...I'm still surrouned by it. You have no idea what I've been through at the hands of the church, but the thing is...I don't care. I don't need to start emoting my story to prove my point. It's because I have experience that I look at it the way I do.
I don't completely disagree with either of you...I just also think slight differently on the subject. Christianity can me bloody rage, but I also realise I need to hone that in and be careful, because when I get angry about the religion as a whole I generalise and say things that aren't entirely fair.
[MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] I wasn't directly talking about you, so you can calm down now. I didn't like your orignial post because it didn't explain much of what you actually thought, ad well, I don't need to explain myself, I just used the thumbs down button. I had no desire to discuss it with you...YOU were the one that decided to call me out and draw attention to it. I've got thumbs down, I just go meh...they didnt like my comment...whatever. I did in fact like (both literally and the button) your further explanation of your beleifs...I was genuinely interested in what you thought. I don't necessarily agree with you, but whatever. And yes, I do feel like sometimes people in discussions like this do get kind of immature in their wording....it's usually because too many emotions are involved.
ACTUALLY...what you quoted was MY OPINION OF WHAT I BELIEVE. It had nothing to do with acd, if you can believe it or not. I have a ton of atheist friends, a lot of who like to tear down christians in arguments...I was also refrencing all of them. That quoted post was MY REPSONSE to the thread....not anyone posting in this thread. If you are entitled to your opinion....so am I.
Telling me I have little idea of what I'm actually talking about makes no sense. I've already said I have huge experience with christians and the church...I'm still surrouned by it. You have no idea what I've been through at the hands of the church, but the thing is...I don't care. I don't need to start emoting my story to prove my point. It's because I have experience that I look at it the way I do.
I don't completely disagree with either of you...I just also think slight differently on the subject. Christianity can me bloody rage, but I also realise I need to hone that in and be careful, because when I get angry about the religion as a whole I generalise and say things that aren't entirely fair.
Heh, my surname is O'Callaghan. My ancestors left Ireland because of the blight and destitution British/Northern Irish Protestants forced on them. My existence in this nation is directly attributed to that conflict. Funny part is most people don't even realize that there was plenty of food for the native Irish to eat, only it was all being taken by the British empire and Protestants which forced the native Irish to thrive on a staple of potatoes for food. When that blight hit, well, you know the rest.
And while 1 Christian MAY be a good person, a GROUP of Christians tend to have this nasty habit of enforcing their morality on the people around them. As with any religion, Islam, Christianity, so on, it always starts off peaceful and cute, and then when the numbers arise they begin to trample the rights of the people around them. DO you have any idea how many Native Americans (North and South) perished because of Christian greed?
Religion isn't about salvation, that's just its marketing, its about power. Always was.
I apologise if I came off confrontational or insulting...I tend to be fairly blunt, but it was not intended that way. You look nothing like an irish person....but thats probably a good thing
No no, see the thing is...I GET it...I get it all. I just choose to react differently, even as an atheist.
What you are describing WAS my home life. If you read my blog you will know I have a lot of anger about a lot of things, and one thing I've realised is...whats the point? there are some situations that warrant my anger,and others that don't. When I hear about some horrific christian group, yes, I am angry....but to hate and rage against Christianity as a whole? I just feel like I'm no better than them if I do that.
There is too much hate in the world, and I really don't want to be a part of it. Yes, all the situations described upset me greatly...but I'd rather be the woman heading to Africa to work with AIDS patients than the woman who gets angry and hates catholicism because of moronic comments from the pope.
I apologise if I came off confrontational or insulting...I tend to be fairly blunt, but it was not intended that way. You look nothing like an irish person....but thats probably a good thing
No no, see the thing is...I GET it...I get it all. I just choose to react differently, even as an atheist.
What you are describing WAS my home life. If you read my blog you will know I have a lot of anger about a lot of things, and one thing I've realised is...whats the point? there are some situations that warrant my anger,and others that don't. When I hear about some horrific christian group, yes, I am angry....but to hate and rage against Christianity as a whole? I just feel like I'm no better than them if I do that.
There is too much hate in the world, and I really don't want to be a part of it. Yes, all the situations described upset me greatly...but I'd rather be the woman heading to Africa to work with AIDS patients than the woman who gets angry and hates catholicism because of moronic comments from the pope.
I don't hate Christianity. I am simply neutral on it emotionally... I think its a bad idea and a force for pain and suffering in the world. And as such I seek to counter its influence wherever I can, ever the crusader (haha) I am nothing without a cause to ignite my passions. I look forward to a world without Christianity muddying up the collective consciousness or any religions. Plus they wear stupid hats. In that way fashionistas should be thankful.
I see Christianity and other religions as simply bad ideas, the best way to counter a bad idea, is to counter it with better ideas. Ideas are like a virus. they spread, just like this whole new atheism is spreading, and spreading VERY fast. In another century we may be able to put our bibles in museums along with all that Greek pottery and just say, well we used it for what it was in a more primitive time but we are past that now.
And I agree with you, its better to be the person who is sending money and helping out tangibly. I do that too wherever I can, but Awareness is the ONLY way to solve the problems of mankind. We must be aware of the dangerous inherent in all religious thought, and the concept of believing on faith. That's the most dangerous tenet of all. I dont get all emotionally wrapped up in this stuff, well ok, maybe sometimes I do. My passion is a big driving force for what I feel is just and right in the world, so I cannot claim to be totally blank towards it, but its not that I am hating on the people. I am trying to help them see things they are ignoring by blinding themselves to objective truths that fly in the face of the religions they have been brought up in. If I can take 1 doubter and tell her that she is NOT alone. That she is NOT alone in feeling that doubt, that Cosmic Jewish zombies ARE indeed far fetched, at least as far fetched as Gnomes or Goblins. That there is still plenty of beauty in life and nature and mystery to unravel, if I can get that through to 1 person and help them self actualize away from the herd then it will all be worth it.
I'm not one bit upset
A little irritated that you seem to want to start some big fight, but genuinely been pretty calm about this the whole time. I got your points and your message clearly through your multiple reps. I don't really have much else to say to you really. My refrencing immature atheists is regarding watching friends arguing over religion and lowering themselves to name calling and getting outright irritated for someone beleiving what they do despite teh fact said person is doing nothing more than defending their beliefs, not pushing it on the other person.
Anyway, im through explaining myself.
Well that's just like your opinion man.NO, its just an incredibly shallow reason for picking a creator/personal god.
*narrows eyes* there's no such thing as a free breakfast...
[MENTION=630]Blind Bandit[/MENTION]
How about some coffee?
who said anything about free? you bring the stuff and ill make it.
Tin Man
"a respectable amount of screaming"
That would be cool, and did you know someone already wrote a book about that? Simon Green, in his Nightside series. On the whole, I think he is much too chunky and bloody and generally has too much gratuitous violence in his books, but they're still good, and he has this Street of Gods thing that is just what you describe above. He's probably now doomed to hell in a couple of dozen different religions, poor guy.
Honestly, as a *former atheist* atheists seem to be the most preachy people nowadays. People don't need cynicism shoved down their throats any more than they need religion there.
As far as the religion bashing goes, I think this well spoken little atheist addresses that pretty well. [video=youtube;JVwGL9qgpdM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVwGL9qgpdM&feature=relmfu[/video]
Since only a few people have bothered to answer the OP, I figure I'll make a suggestion.
A long time ago, there were a lot of Pagan religions all over the place, I'm sure that's not really news to anyone. Nowadays, however, of the major world religions, those that have force in the world, there is only a few. Of the competing Gods of yore, presumably a real God who wanted to be worshiped would not allow his/her/it's religion to largely go extinct. Extinct religions are irrelevant, and I would imagine that this is why they are so easily written off. I'm sure we would agree that there are very few if any legitimate worshipers of Zeus. Between Christians and Muslims alone though, I think the majority of the world worships Yahweh. (and there are obviously more religions that worship Yahweh) So I would think that you can see the success of Yahweh to be to some degree of an argument in his favor.
Obviously that doesn't *necessitate* that Yahweh is real, but I imagine it is the reason people (including many atheists) intuitively dismiss unknown Hittite deities without a second thought.
As far as the religion bashing goes, I think this well spoken little atheist addresses that pretty well. [video=youtube;JVwGL9qgpdM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVwGL9qgpdM&feature=relmfu[/video]
Since only a few people have bothered to answer the OP, I figure I'll make a suggestion.
A long time ago, there were a lot of Pagan religions all over the place, I'm sure that's not really news to anyone. Nowadays, however, of the major world religions, those that have force in the world, there is only a few. Of the competing Gods of yore, presumably a real God who wanted to be worshiped would not allow his/her/it's religion to largely go extinct. Extinct religions are irrelevant, and I would imagine that this is why they are so easily written off. I'm sure we would agree that there are very few if any legitimate worshipers of Zeus. Between Christians and Muslims alone though, I think the majority of the world worships Yahweh. (and there are obviously more religions that worship Yahweh) So I would think that you can see the success of Yahweh to be to some degree of an argument in his favor.
Obviously that doesn't *necessitate* that Yahweh is real, but I imagine it is the reason people (including many atheists) intuitively dismiss unknown Hittite deities without a second thought.
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In my opinion, religion is simple; simple to understand, simple to see why people have created such a thing, why people adamantly defend their system. And why many later go on to disbelieve.
I think the choice to adhere to one god and not subscribe to the rest is based on the very principle some choose a god in the first place. God is the answer.
Omniscient, omnipotent (yet seemingly weak)
How can you believe your god is everything and the answer and acknowledge other gods even exist.
Btw, as I'm sure everyone knows, but atheism is a disbelief in a Christian god, not the disbelief on all gods.
I think the choice to adhere to one god and not subscribe to the rest is based on the very principle some choose a god in the first place. God is the answer.
Omniscient, omnipotent (yet seemingly weak)
How can you believe your god is everything and the answer and acknowledge other gods even exist.
Btw, as I'm sure everyone knows, but atheism is a disbelief in a Christian god, not the disbelief on all gods.
Well, I just have to point out that if you break down the word Atheism it means literally "No God-ism"
"A" is the Greek root for no, and "theism" is from the Greek root for God. Just like a Pantheon means literally "All Gods" Because Pan means all, and Theon means Gods.
So people who call themselves Atheists are saying they believe in No Gods whatsoever. Of course there may be people who use the word differently, but they're confused.
Interesting video. It is theists -- or even more so -- Christians fault for the new-atheist movement and their "seemingly" angry mindset. They (Christians and theists in general as a whole) don't know enough about what they believe to respond to new-atheist arguments and sometimes I'm overwhelmed and don't know where to start because, well there is so many misconceptions. The fact is that people involved in religion have abused their power; its attractive to wolves who want to control and destroy... its Christians fault they hate religion. Its their fault that this whole market and movement even exists. Can you blame them? I don't. I sympathize. They will believe and embrace anything they are told as long as it rejects theology and even mocks it because that's how they feel (add the appeal to ego to hook you, it would be tough for anyone to resist that; its too satisfying) but who doesn't do that? Who is really to blame for leaving that vacuum? On some level, me. A bird's eye view? People just being people and doing what they do. Everyone is a fraud. This is nothing new. There is nothing new under the sun. Everyone follows someone or something. Everything and everyone is open to corruption, manipulation and perversion and that will never change. Atheists don't have that..."I'm going to convert you because I have something to gain" hook and their intentions seem pure. I just wish they wouldn't be so abusive...or maybe I don't *wink*
Call me immature its cool. Hell, even call me a narcissist. I've been called much worse. (well maybe not) I'm wondering though, has anyone ever changed their views even once because they were insulted?
Today I suppose the truth is what your peers will let you get away with saying, and sometimes I guess...I've thought about it and I'm okay with that. I guess on some level I suppose its "their turn" and I'll take it on the chin. Hopefully there will still be pancakes.
Call me immature its cool. Hell, even call me a narcissist. I've been called much worse.
(well maybe not) I'm wondering though, has anyone ever changed their views even once because they were insulted? Today I suppose the truth is what your peers will let you get away with saying, and sometimes I guess...I've thought about it and I'm okay with that. I guess on some level I suppose its "their turn" and I'll take it on the chin. Hopefully there will still be pancakes.
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