Why don't women make the first move?
- Thread starter muir
- Start date
You have a way of putting down someone in a nice and clean way, if you want.
And speaking of insults, I never insulted anyone in this thread, and especialy women.
Because I said women are weaker than men? What if its true, does it still counts as a insult on my part, or sudenly its just truth?
Blegh, word vomit.. Factually I'm telling you this. I can read people yes but I don't manipulate.. that is not my m.o. If I got to you it's because I spoke truly.. I was raised within an aspergers/narcissistic family structure.. Seeing equality is the simplest thing. Truth is the only way. People with Aspergers aren't ones to be emotionally manipulated.. They are through thoughts manipulated. My narcissistic parent was captain of this so one of my rules in life is to never manipulate. I will be alright without that.
This is so lame dude. Just distracting from the point manipulatively ... And you project it on others.. I know a projection when I see one. Lol laughable really.
Everything else you say is waste, why? Because you are not coming from a point of clarity. Your view is tainted. Try to project less and listen more.
Listening: seeking to understand.
if I met you in real life... I would know this within your first few words to me. And they wouldn't have had to have been anything relative to this conversation or any really ..
I'd just fuckin know! Lol
And people would be like girl, what's that bitter taste in your mouth.. And I'd say
That's motherfuckin intuition baby!
Taste that bitter sweet reality. Even if you don't want it to be.. It is. Lol
Tongue in cheek.. I'm a sage of my time. Lol
I said good day!
To answer this, I had to look out the concept of projection, as I was unfamiliar with it.
I can not explain how shitty and ugly is what you are trying to do, because of the inherent stupidity of it.
Allow me to answer you. Even if I am projecting something, this has actualy nothing to do with my claims about women, and my disaproval of feminism. Those are tow separate things, completly different things.
Even if the reason or cause for my views is certain psychological projections, like weakness (or male weakness), this has nothing to do with the truthiness of wether a woman is weaker and inferior to a man or not.
can you get the difference between the two?
Letting that aside, what you've tried to do is abhoring to me. A little psychological attack, to sidetrack the problem.
And again, even if...even if..., if your head can follow the logic.
Good to you...I guess.
Well, what you would know? I'm curious.
Your not any sage, because the world is full of "sages" like you.
And I'll doubt if we'll meet in real life, things will happen as you think you are. Maybe you will be a bit surprised.
The thing is, I was lucky enough to have great parents that gave me a good foundation so that I could go through some really crappy treatment and still come out with decent self-esteem and still able to see the best in people, but I feel bad for those who had a dysfunctional family because they didn't learn any better and they have to also be suffering from not being able to acknowledge their own feelings and not be able to have healthy relationships.
I eventually ended up having a major depressive episode. I was my family's rock but I had no support system whatsoever and was afraid to cry at home because it would piss him off. I still managed to function because everybody was counting on me but I couldn't feel anything. It was like I had a heavy blanket over my feelings. It was definitely a tough time but I got out of the depression through sheer will and exercise because everybody needed me and I wasn't going to let them down. I understand sometimes that people don't know any better but they should be willing to listen and accept that their view on how somebody should feel or behave under difficult circumstances may not be the right one for that person, especially later on when the person shares with you how that made them feel.
There was some pretty negative emotions expressed on the thread
But that in itself tells a story
It's my view that there has been in recent decades a lot of antagonism between the sexes. many people posting here have had bad experiences of the opposite sex which are colouring their perceptions of the other gender
When we become defencive due to our bad experiences we then start thinking in us and them terms. We start seeing ourselves as playing for a certain team against the other team
This is the terrible thing that feminism does...it makes women think they are playing for team vagina against team penis
As i've spoken about above there are different energies...there's 'hard' active energies and their are passive 'soft' energies. This is a dynamic that balances itself out
Both these energies can be expressed by the same person at different times but if hard energies meet hard energies they collide in an explosive way
For example imagine an angry person coming up against another angry person...what's going to happen? A conflict is going to happen
One side has to play the part of the soother/absorber of hard energies
if you look at our modern life it is quite stressful and often abrasive. The modern workplace can be full of politiking and aggression of various kinds as people compete for positions or status within the organisation. This can create a combatative, defencive mindset in the person trying to make a living in that environment
That person is likely to develop a habit of manifesting hard energies in order to survive in that culture/environment
When that person comes home they are likely if they cannot leave their work energetically at the door of their workplace to be in a hard energy frame of mind
They are going to need their partner to be soft energy...to help them ground and neutralise those hard energies; if their partner meets them with hard energies then they are likely to clash
I think this is happening a lot in modern society
The hard v's soft dynamic is vital for success imo. It can also be seen in gay couples where one partner is more masculine than the other
So it used to be the case that it was the man who went to work in the hasrh workplace in what was previosuly called a 'mans world'
But now women go to work as well and have to compete and struggle and stand up for themselves in what can be a tough environment.
So now we have women manifesting hard energies and needing to process those hard energies and those women come home and unless they have managed to leave those emotions and energies at the door of their workplace they will need help to process those energies from their partner
The problem we have at this transitional time is that men have male pride and also to be fully fair to men we must also appreciate that they also have certain biological hormonal functions that make them more likely to manifest hard energies (they have evolved to hunt for goodness sake!); not all men will be like this but as a generalistion it's the case
So men are being asked to suddenly be the passive absorbing energy to neutralise the hard energies of the increasingly tough and abrasive career woman
It's also not just career women who are expressing hard energies because women in general are being told by feminism that they should express hard energies because they are being told that hard active strength is the only strength worthy of respect
So now we have more and more women expressing hard active energies and we have men who are still having to go to work also still expressing their traditional hard energies
And hard energies meeting hard energies do not work!
Someone has to be the neutralising grounding absorbing passive force
The mistake we have made as a society is in not realising the VALUE of passive neutralising force and how the ability to neutralise hard energy is a STRENGTH in and of itself; this is happening because feminism is militant....it is waging a war against what they call 'patriarchy' and waging war is about expressing hard uncompromising energies which are then clashing with men causing endless conflict
Women are now due to feminism demanding that men play the passive energy role and many men are in various ways expressing an inability to do that due to their biological wiring and male pride
So a militant feminist who will have an aggressive hard energy mindset will read what i'm writing here and in an uncompromising way (which is the nature of hard energy!) will say contemptuously of what i'm saying here: ''well let the man be the passive energy, i'm going to be the boss''
But nature has assigned women the role in society of being the mother who will need to be gentle with her offspring...she will need soft energies to be a nurterer and this role of being a passive, soft, compromising energy of absorption and neutralisation of hard energy is now sitting very badly with women raised in the militant masculine feminist mindset
But if there are any young female readers reading this who want to have a harmonious relationship with men it might be worth considering some of the points i'm making here because in the modern world you will likely have to develop a tougher, hard nosed side to deal with the tough and often competitive (and sometimes downright treacherous!) modern workplace....but your relationship with your fella who might also be developing hard energies to deal with his workplace not to mention the expectations on him to be a 'man' will mean that you will need to find a compromise in the home because there might not be that many guys around who will accept being dominated by your tough work place persona or a militant feminist mindset
if you don't believe this then try doing it the feminist way and see if you can achieve harmony with men. Alternatively you could try and see things from a male perspective and understand what a big ask it is to ask them to play the more passive, compromising role not to mention whether you want your man to be passive and compromising all the time
Ask yourself: do you want a guy whose gonna be a wet blanket around you and your friends and family? If not then let him be a man and recognise that in every relationship someone has to manifest the soft energies when the other manifests the hard
Last edited:
Dude can we wind down the name calling now?
You've both had your say and both had a crack at the other so let's now draw a line under it here please
No 'dude', no.
I can't stand people who so easily get into nasty argumentations just so they can easily switch to a friedly tone and be clean, with no problems. That's not diplomacy, that's cunningness and being a licker and a flatterer.
Do you know what I mean? I think no.
Which is why probably she will do that shit to anybody who can swallow it.
Ok but you've said your piece now so i don't see why anymore needs to be said on the matter
If you continue then she will want to speak out to defend herself and a tit for tat back and forth exchange will continue which from where i'm standing looks pretty toxic
I think there's been plenty of room for people to manouvre in this thread but i think it has gone over a line now where its just personal and not really beneficial to anyone so as the threadstarter i'm asking nicely for people to calm it down and bring things off the personal level and back onto the discussion
Thank you for your thought. I am not sorry that all of that happened. I am extremely grateful that I manifested such a shitty situation because it was a catalyst I apparently needed. I realised later that I have rarely been in touch with my emotions, and it has been quite a learning experience to recognise and process emotions as they arise rather than simply ignoring/suppressing them.
I am sorry that the other party had to play such a role in the shitty situation, and I sincerely hope that he too can find some peace and growth from it all.
I also recognise that there are two energies that are in constant interplay in life. Life at its core is Love, and I believe that the purpose of life is creativity and friendship.
All creativity ultimately emerges from Source, which is Unconditional Love. Source is both everything and nothing. It is neither, it simply is. For something to be manifested, it must be first exist as potential. Thoughts, ideas, concepts, are creative potentials. Each potential emerges from a fluid ocean of infinite possibilities, and is chosen based on our desires, focus, and intention.
The process of creation can be symbolically, albeit in a crude manner, likened to the process of birth. A seed of potential is chosen/asserted and finds fertile ground, a powerful alchemical big bang spark of integration occurs in which the potential and the vacuum/womb become united- One, the seed is blast open and transforms into something that is a marriage of its original potential and its womb and is something completely new, the womb nurtures and feeds this 'something new', a powerful aggressive force propels this 'something new' from the womb, and the success of this 'something new' is dependant on the interplay between its will to life, and its continued nurturance from its environment.
There are two basic energies inherent in creation, an active, giving, and focused force, and an open, receiving, and nurturing force. These energies or processes are not only interconnected and interdependent, they are inherent/exist in each other, the ying and the yang, and can only exist and function in creation as One.
We could call these energies masculine and feminine energy, and these energies are inherent in each person, each man and woman. All people are creative beings, and we all use these energies/processes to give birth to potentials- our thoughts and beliefs, and nurture our creations in the fertile garden of our minds.
Source has no gender but contains the concept of gender. The Spirit and soul that encompass/manifest the human body have no gender. The human body that is manifested does have a biological sex that is chosen according to the purposes of the soul. A soul may develop a preference for manifesting as a male or a female, but it will never be exclusively a male or a female, because the concepts of male and female belong to the material and corporeal reality, and the soul is ultimately incorporeal and non-material. Our physical body is of the Earth, and it returns to the Earth when it expires, it is broken down and recycled. The Soul returns to its own realm.
I don't 'believe' in random mutations. I observe natural selection. I can see conscious creative evolution. Consciousness evolves and manifests according to our own purposes and intentions. Evolution, our reality, our bodies, are not something that is thrust upon us; it is something that we, collectively, choose in order make manifest our potentials, to write whatever story we are interested in living and observing. We are the architects of our own experience, individually and collectively.
Ideas such as 'hunters' and 'gatherers' are ideas. We are not limited to them and are free to evolve. Our body is not our prison, it can be our conduit for free expression. There are many archetypes we use that are more complex than 'man' and 'woman'. What about the 16 archetypes that Jung recognised? Where does that fit in? We cant all be lumped into base program man/hunter/inseminater/provider/penis, base program woman/gatherer/birther/nurturer/vagina. It is clearly far more complex. Some of us are gardeners, cooks, inventors, artists, builders, entertainers, administrators, organisers, poets, musicians, observers, analysts, philosophers, alchemists, and mystics. We are here according to our purpose and intention. We are people. We have infinte possibilities. I love humanity...i think its brilliant. Consciousness creates form. Consciousness is the programmer and the software. Form facilitates consciousness like hardware. Form does not create consciousness, it simply facilitates and limits it temporarily. Every chemical in our body is the result of movement of consciousness. When form dies, consciousness leaves it.
Every precious moment of life is full of movement, flow, and balance. There is a grand and integral spin and dance that happens with the sun, moon, star constellations, planets and the elements to ensure that we continue to have the present conditions of life on Earth. We observe that there is day and night, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, the moon gets bigger and smaller, seasons follow one after the other, tides come in and go out. We may not observe the earth rotating on its axis and feel its movement around the sun, and we may not observe the rotation and orbit of the moon. But we certainly observe and feel the effects of the communication between the Earth, Moon, and Sun. We take it all for granted. We don't necessarily feel and understand the magnificent and effortless power of these entities and their relationship with us. In the same way we can also take our thoughts and emotions for granted. We take waking and sleeping, imagining and dreaming for granted. We take our bodies for granted. We take our heart beats and breath for granted. We take our lives for granted. We take trees and plants, animals, water, air, fire, metals, solid ground, sky, and people for granted. Or some may not take these things for granted and simply assign and explain away their existence to an external source or entity. We do not necessarily observe, question, and appreciate the significance of every moment that is life in this body in this planet. And clearly we do not have to, because we can take it all for granted and it all still moves. Imagine the effort to observe and micromanage the activity of breathing. It would drive us fucking nuts!
But in taking it all for granted, sometimes we fail to recognise the patterns of consciousness that manifest into their respective patterns of form and matter. We can become cut of from the process of creativity by not recognising the central and interdependent role that we play in our individual and collective reality. In taking it all for granted, we can fail to take responsibility, and in that process, become dis-empowered and feel that life is happening to us, rather than acknowledging and embracing that we are life, and we are happening to life, with life, as life.
Recognising and living our inherent creativity is how we embrace life, how we choose life over survival, and how we choose Love over fear. The successful and effective utilisation of our creativity is dependant on our successful integration of our 'masculine' and 'feminine' energies, because ultimately, these energies are One.
The way to integrate these energies is simply to affirm our self, to say 'yes' to our self. When we allow ourselves to be open to all our potentials, and we stop the process of blocking and repressing our thoughts and emotions, our natural spontaneity, something incredible occurs...we no longer fear ourself and the process of life...we unconditionally Love ourself and we begin conscious creation and active participation of Life. We know that we Are Life. We become active conduit for Spirit. When we are not afraid of our self, we are not afraid of anyone else. When we see evil in others, we are actually seeing it in ourself... all we are capable of seeing is ourself....our own thoughts and beliefs and perception...some may fear that we are flawed and corrupted. But if we feel past our fears and closely examine ourself, we will see clearly that there is nothing evil or frightening.
We can put our trust in the magical and seamless process and abundance of life. Three little birds. We can give it all we have, because we dont need to hold back, and that means that we can literally have it all, because what we give is what we receive. If we have something, we can have more of it. If we do not have something, we can not get it from another...we may not even recognise it. Our creative potential and expression is blocked and thwarted if we believe that there are parts of us that we need to block off because they are bad or fearful. If we are afraid to see ourselves openly and honestly, we are afraid of ourself. Fear blinds, and leaves us ignorant, stagnant and trapped. Nothing is bad. Things can either be beneficial and help us manifest our desires, or they can be not beneficial, and help us create our fears. If we let an emotion or thought run through without judging it, acting on it, repressing it, fearing it...it will simply pass through and resolve itself.
The process of 'alchemical marriage' is more complex and greater than integrating our feminine and masculine energy. It is about integrating and aligning Spirit with soul, and manifesting this physically through the body. An integrated Spirit, soul, and body. Allowing the divine- the God Spirit- to manifest on Earth. This is what the mysteries refer to as the 'kingdom of heaven', the 'Christ' and 'Buddha' consciousness, enlightenment, moksha etc.
'Balance' is not about mixing two things together to make a murky and lukewarm grey. It is not about pitting two opposites against each other. Balance is not about good and evil, about the average, the mean, mode, or median. Balance is completely beyond duality, it is unity. Balance is integration into a whole, harmony, perfect homoeostasis, for All, All for One, One for All.
There is no battle here, no striving. Just accepting and intergrating.
I understand what you mean about Strength in relation to 'hard energy' and 'soft energy'.
But i see both violence and complacency as weakness rather than strength, as they both appear to come from a place of dis-empowerment. Pehaps violence and complacency are the subversions and abuse of these energies?
Thank you, that is very kind of you. Things have never been better. Really...life is good.
yes exactly! The human experience is rich and brilliant... if we focus on one note in the song, we cant hear the beauty of the whole song. Every pixel in a picture has its place and its purpose and makes sense when we glimpse the whole picture.
On a different note, now that i have already gone right of topic...sorry...i was talking with some friends today, and i learned that in some cultures men use their nipples as pacifiers. And then we were thinking how interesting it would be in a society where people were went around topless, if eventualy they might get to the point where they pick up another crying kid in the community and comfort them or feed them. and if people were that invested into their children and their neighbours children, then they might eventually stop trying to hack each other up.
It seems that although general nudity and violence is everwhere in the media, nipples are still rarely exposed. It seems that some people can stomach seeing people getting maimed, tortured, or killed better than seeing a nipple. Which means that nipples are obviously terrifying to some people lol. And breast feeding is still something that make some people uncomfortable. But why is this? Is having the breast more or less exposed but covering up the nipple somehow forcing people to see it only as a sexual object rather than as a fully functional life affirming tool?
Apparently people in nudist/naturist groups and societies have virtually no rape or violence. Unfortunately i can find the orginal journal article i found this infromation, it was something i read almost 10 years. i dont know if it is necessarily true. But it has been confirmed to me by naturists that ive spoken to.
i find this concept interesting. Ive heard from people that are naturists that they have become increasingly comfortable with their bodies and see them less in a sexually orientated way. They also said they feel that they have nothing to hide, less worries about aging, less worried that people will judge their body etc
For whatever reason...maybe im just a prude....i find the idea of a naturist community somewhat unappealing..and possibly unhygenic...lol..but it is interesting to think about. Clothing can be a potent way that people try to shape/control others perception of them...and also their own perception of their body i suppose. Clothes are something that people can hide under.
What do you think? I say less violence and more nipples. But why are nipples so taboo?
Another common reason, which may have already been mentioned, is that women are told it's not "womanly" or "feminine" to initiate. It's still seen as the man's duty to initiate first contact unofficially. There is a stigma attached to women being assertive and going for what they want.
Well either women want to stand up and be counted or they don't
But i think its time that whatever decision they make they stop blaming men for everything
beautifully put, sorry it took a bit of time to get back to this thread charlene i was kinda absorbed in another one!
Yes i think we have some serious issues in our society with nudity and as you say with how people use their clothing to manipulate the thoughts and feelings of others
In a materialist society where 'success' is guaged by material accumulation people use their clothes, their car, their home and even their body langauge etc as a way of trying to project their personality over other people (as if their worth is somehow judged that way)
I agree that TV, film, magazines and other media are very unhealthy with their constant gratuitous violence yet as you say we can't see nipples!
We can watch people hack each other to death but we can't see nipples
I think however that at the same time we are bombarded with sexually suggestive images; for example i was just on a site looking at natural remedies for alzheimers and all the adverts down the side have attractive women striking poses in them.
Its like we are constantly asked to desire and seek out the naked female form
Men are visually stimulated easily so the constant exposure to sexually suggestive images has an impact on men (and women) which i think is unhealthy; i think it is a titilation issue....so you mentioned naturist communities and there is no titilation there
Sure at first a guy might walk around mouth ajar but in time he would adjust and there is no sexual suggestion only the natural human form
I think it is all to do with the energy that is being given off. So for example if a woman stands ramrod straight with a poker face she is not really acting alluring but if she is a model in a car advert and she is leaning across the bonnet in a suggestive way and looking alluringly at the camera it is giving off a different sort of energy and the PR people behind the adverts know this; they know how to manipulate people and that is what is happening with the sexualisation of society....people are being manipulated all the time
So it is not the naked human body that is the problem it is the energies that are being invoked
I have no problem with nipples per se
I disagree with the fact that women don’t make the first move. It’s quite the opposite really. It’s 2019, not the 1950s anymore.
To be frank in my situation, I never had the opportunity to do the approaching due to the fact the ones I was already interested already made the first move, which was nice, haha!
But if I had the chance and was reaaaallly interested in the person and did my observations, I would for sure approach them.
Of course it’s pretty nerve-wrecking and nobody likes rejection, but hey! You never know! The other man/woman may genuinely like you back too and you don’t want to let the opportunity fly you by!
To be frank in my situation, I never had the opportunity to do the approaching due to the fact the ones I was already interested already made the first move, which was nice, haha!
But if I had the chance and was reaaaallly interested in the person and did my observations, I would for sure approach them.
Of course it’s pretty nerve-wrecking and nobody likes rejection, but hey! You never know! The other man/woman may genuinely like you back too and you don’t want to let the opportunity fly you by!
Last edited: