Where do your morals come from? | INFJ Forum

Where do your morals come from?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Galileo, Oct 15, 2010.

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  1. Galileo

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    Ok, so I was having a conversation with a friend's christian friend who I don't know very well, and the conversation strayed onto morality.

    He told me that I couldn't possibly have morals because I did not accept god and the bible.

    I told him that many morals in the bible are morals that I follow personally, and that I even accept the teaching of christ, for the most part, but I don't accept that he was the son of god.

    He asked me by what values I back up my morals.

    I told him from the principle that all are equal and thus should be treated so. everyone has the right to be treated fairly, and all should have access to basic rights. I believe in loving my neighbour, but not because god says I should, but because my neighbour is my equal and I want him to love me too, or at least to treat me with respect.

    He said that my morals were based on left wing dogma and thus not as true as his own.


    so, I have a few questions.

    Where do your own morals stem from? Where did you learn them and what teaching would you use to back them up? if any

    to those who are religious, If it could be proven beyond any doubt that god did not exist, would it make the morals in the bible less valid to you?>



    and finally, Do morals have to stem from the bible, in your opinion?
     
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  2. Melkor

    Melkor Madman with a cause

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    A combination of things.

    Written law.
    The exact opposite of what my parents taught me.
    A few things I've made up myself that a select few agree with.

    Humans are composite creatures, and I am no exception.

    Having more morals doesn't make you any better, it just means you were constructed differently.
     
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  3. Deathjam

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    Space monkeys, they come in a Jar
    :meye:
     
  4. Melkor

    Melkor Madman with a cause

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    That is to be expected, you also come from a jar, being DeathJAM.
     
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  5. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    1) Experience, mostly. Observation...that first come befuddled, then either someone / something (either a friend, or a quote, or a phrase in a book) said something perfectly so that gives it actual form and phrase, or I'm able to phrase it myself in my own words. More the former around my preteen years until about one or two years ago, so then a lot of it comes into question too; as in, how right were they? And I admit going to details, some of them were still a bit vague so I rely on feelings and intuition to tell me whether something is wrong or right.
    2) Not so much.... in every way possible. A lot of things from the Bible had been proven wrong even with the 'word of God' stigma still attached, and people more or less not followed those anymore. And a lot of things from the Bible will still make sense (for some people, again) even with the stigma disappearing. The same goes with other religious texts.
    3) Try to tell that in an Islamic country. Or China. *deadpan*
     
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  6. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    Certainly not exclusively from religion.
     
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  7. NeverAmI

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    I found mine crumpled up on the side of the road. Apparently someone threw them out the window in traffic.

    They smelled a bit funny, but I liked how they fit in my pocket so I washed them and now I use them occasionally.


    On a serious note, my morals come from competence. I sometimes find that religion is often used as a tool for rationalizing more than for doing 'good.'

    I am a good person because I take a far look and attempt to take actions that are reasonable for the current circumstances I am in based on the outcome I wish to achieve.

    I have empathy for other people because that is my nature. I follow rules of society so that I don't face the consequences society has mandated.
     
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  8. NeverAmI

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    Oh, and to state that a human cannot have morals without a guiding book or diety explaining the rules implies we are all sociopaths.

    Nuff said.
     
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  9. kita

    kita <font color=#990066>Regular Poster</font>

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    I'm not a Christian, but I believe my morals and the moral content in the bible come from the same place - common sense and cultural norms.
     
  10. IndigoSensor

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    My morals have come from life experience. Externally derived values based off what is fair for others as a whole, and what make the most logical sense taking into account the subjectivity of non-objective situations.
     
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  11. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    The moral nature of man comes from God, it seems your friend's friend was fairly ignorant of the subject.
     
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  12. Nixie

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    I'm an innie, not an outie. My morals come from my spirit, not some book.
     
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  13. Wyote

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    I think my morals have always been sort of instinctual. It stems from some deep seeded utilitarian aspect of my psyche. There are obvious principals that most people attempt to abide by that I mimic, and when I lack wisdom on specific matters I delve deeper either in books or within myself to obtain a realistic palatable resolution.
     
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  14. Poetic Justice

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    You should have told him that his morals come from a desire to be rewarded for them in the afterlife or from fear of being punished for having different morals. Therefore his morals are purely selfish and not true morals

    I made mine up from a desire for equality regardless of perceived status or ability.
     
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  15. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    This actually a lot closer to what your friend's friend should have said
     
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  16. OP
    Galileo

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    but personally, I do not believe that my morals come from any god anywhere.

    and that's what I have argued. I'm an atheist, but that does not mean that I do not have morals and it also doesn't mean that I can't back up my morals with the bible if I choose. the bible is actually a very good guide to morality, minus all that crap about homosexuality being evil and killing people for all kinds of things in the old testament.

    Even if it were proven that god existed, I would still have a problem. I might believe, but I wouldn't worship. I've got a problem with a god that expects worship and prayers from everyone. I've got a problem with being constantly reminded of what a horrible person I am, that we all are, by people who are religious. I don't think I am a horrible person. I do my best by everyone and that's all we can ever do. I don't think we need reminding of all the so-called sin in our lives.`
     
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  17. Faye

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    You don't honestly believe everyone is equal and deserves to be treated as such, do you?



    If I had to deal with someone like him, I would just say I derive my morality from the works of Soren Kierkegaard, who was in fact the Christian- as he referred to himself. This would mainly be to annoy them.
     
  18. OP
    Galileo

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    Actually, to a certain extent, I do.

    I'm not saying that I don't think people who commit crimes shouldn't be punished or anything like that, but I am saying that everyone is deserving of basic human rights, food, water etc. Everyone is also deserving of having their religious values respected. I also don't believe we should return violence for violence in any kind of punishment, because I think that makes us lower than the original doer of violence.
     
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  19. Questingpoet

    Questingpoet Not Afraid to Use His Beard
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    Your friend is acting like a pompass ass. You should have let him have it!

    My morals come from life experience too. This included a few things. My parents and the example they set. Children all look up to their parents until (and if) they prove otherwise to the kids. Also, I pulled and cobbled a lot of my own moral code out of all the books I read. I wanted to be the good guy, not the guy in black. A strong sense of justice and search for the "real" answers helped forge what I think of as my morals.

    Are some of our morals "hardwired" in us? Genetically determined?? I don't know, but it would not surprise me at all. As I grow I see more and more, what a huge role genetics plays in a persons development....so why not in morals too?
     
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  20. Soulful

    Soulful life is good

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    My view is that morals do not have to stem from the bible if for no other reason than the fact that the bible is NOT universal. Different religions and cultures have their own holy books and I do not believe Christianity or its holy book to be superior to its counterparts. In addition, Christianity (or any religion) is not for everyone and as such, I don't see its holy book as the guidance manual for life.

    I hold the morals that I hold because they make sense to me logically and as far as common sense is concerned, they are aligned with my values, and they've proven to be effective in my experiences with others/of life.
     
    #20 Soulful, Oct 16, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2010
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