Where do you think you'll go after you die? + Rant you can read or ignore
- Thread starter Sugarcoat
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This is such a classic Protestant M.O.: scare you silly and then reward right answers with food - like you would treat a dog.
The word 'visit' seems particularly applicable as well. Friends 'come over' or 'hang out', unwanted proselytizers 'visit' (BARF) and the implication is that the person is unwelcome and we all hope the visit is short.
OP, I liked what you said about arguments being won by people knowing the Bible better so they can manipulate it better in their argument. I've kind of sensed that before but never put my finger on it like you did. It's such a crappy way of behaving.
First off I commend your courage! It comes to mind to me that Christians are non practicing Jews. Jesus himself was a Jew. I assume that when he taught he taught from the Jewish texts. He also corrected them where he felt they were lacking in understanding. Christian religion does not take into account what he studied, in my opinion. So they lack the TOTAL understanding of his love. Please hear ME! Jesus is all you need. The church will always be flawed. You only need him there is no reason for a discussion from a self proclaimed authority. There is zero reason for any church to exist. These psychological mind games must stop. You are not a sheep. Congratulations! Thinking for yourself is a lonely place. Keep the Faith and Love in your Heart....
I like to think that before we die we hallucinate and we get a vision and explanation of everything in our life and then it ends.
I was raised Catholic, but I'm not Christian at all now. But I guess if I were to compare my beliefs now to Christian beliefs as I understand them, and to try to fit my understanding of God into that scheme, I would see myself as seeking a personal relationship with God, unmediated by institutions. I think what you wrote is really great, I agree with it.
Try not to be too hard on them. I know a couple of people like this and they genuinely believe what they believe and they are moving from a sense of empathy and saving people from something they believe is unpleasant. Some of them are assholes. I like to assume the former because it's easier and it's the case most of the time. Usually the evangelical types are new to their beliefs and excited to share them and want you to feel the way they feel. Sort of like when a person is on a new diet and it's all they talk about? Suddenly they're an "expert" on everything nutrition related and everyone else is the idiot. You know what I mean? It's the same here. Those people who really are secure in what works for them don't really talk about it as much; they've moved on to focus on other things in their life.
If you feel defensive or upset in these situations because you haven't read the bible enough to defend your Catholic beliefs then perhaps you should study it a bit later on when you get time so you can answer and not feel defensive. Of course you know, there are answers to your beliefs. I'm not Catholic but I know that purgatory isn't specifically mentioned in the bible that he uses but hey - during the three day period Jesus was dead he was preaching to people who died from somewhere. Who are those people and where were they? Were they in hell? Why is he preaching to them if they are in hell and had no way out? Seems like a waste of time. Does that guy have an answer for that? Also, are you sure you use all the same books that he uses? You may have an extra book or two that you're taught so that would explain the difference in beliefs about purgatory. That's what I find funny about the evangelicals - they don't think there are answers to these simple questions? Of course there are. A perk to doing that is that you know for sure what you do or don't believe. At least for the time being.
I don't comment too much on my own beliefs because it's too personal and always changing. Churches are for the extroverted. They are not built around the introverted person. All those spaghetti potlucks and prayer meetings where everyone spills their guts to a group of strangers every Wednesday night on schedule- but don't spill too much or they'll look at you different or Sally's mom won't let her kids play with yours...devotionals sharing "deep" life strategies where they just scratch the surface and it all seems so superficial and silly- eh no thanks
I'd go to one where they just did bible studies only and didn't try to suck you in to their social world immediately. I'd like to find a strange one where they did outlandish studies like the number patterns that border on schizo. Gotta be careful with those tho, usually those types are cultish lol. Bummer.
If you feel defensive or upset in these situations because you haven't read the bible enough to defend your Catholic beliefs then perhaps you should study it a bit later on when you get time so you can answer and not feel defensive. Of course you know, there are answers to your beliefs. I'm not Catholic but I know that purgatory isn't specifically mentioned in the bible that he uses but hey - during the three day period Jesus was dead he was preaching to people who died from somewhere. Who are those people and where were they? Were they in hell? Why is he preaching to them if they are in hell and had no way out? Seems like a waste of time. Does that guy have an answer for that? Also, are you sure you use all the same books that he uses? You may have an extra book or two that you're taught so that would explain the difference in beliefs about purgatory. That's what I find funny about the evangelicals - they don't think there are answers to these simple questions? Of course there are. A perk to doing that is that you know for sure what you do or don't believe. At least for the time being.
I don't comment too much on my own beliefs because it's too personal and always changing. Churches are for the extroverted. They are not built around the introverted person. All those spaghetti potlucks and prayer meetings where everyone spills their guts to a group of strangers every Wednesday night on schedule- but don't spill too much or they'll look at you different or Sally's mom won't let her kids play with yours...devotionals sharing "deep" life strategies where they just scratch the surface and it all seems so superficial and silly- eh no thanks
I'd go to one where they just did bible studies only and didn't try to suck you in to their social world immediately. I'd like to find a strange one where they did outlandish studies like the number patterns that border on schizo. Gotta be careful with those tho, usually those types are cultish lol. Bummer.
That guy was an ass and your fellow dorm girls are cowards. I'm sorry no one stood up for you, and instead chose to side with the ass. I think it's wonderful you're being so helpful and giving, and I want to caution you; if being helpful makes you feel good, then keep doing it for sure. But from what you write here it seems you don't feel appreciated, and that can easily lead to bitterness, resentment and.. well, that turns a person into an ass.
Make sure you're getting back too. This is an unanswerable question. What information could I possibly use to base an answer on? No one has ever come back from the dead! And even if they had, how can their testimonials be taken as trustworthy? There are so many ways to alter the state of consciousness in a living human being (meditation, drugs, cerebral hypoxia, etc), who knows what that the state of consciousness is supposed to look like in a dead one.
It certainly would be nice if there was a way for my consciousness to continue existing after death, and to go hang with the other consciousnesses and throw a life after death party, but ultimately, the universe doesn't really care about what I think is 'nice'.
You're right. The Bible is an easy (and popular) choice, but this is true for just about any kind of source. This is exactly why knowing the arguments and sources of ones 'opponent' intimately is so important.
I agree with you of course but I was more just wishing people would stfu and do good work instead of bickering all the time trying to one up each other. There is so much endless pointless quarreling out there, if it achieved as much as the time and effort that gets spent on it then there would probably be less cause for fighting anyway. But I do get why using sources correctly and not always in agreement is a valuable part of good argument form.
Compared to Jewish texts the Bible is pretty new. And was written hundreds of years after his death. The books were assembled and voted on wheather they are in it or not. A lot of people have used that book to kill others because they believed what was written there. In the name of God you kill and make justifications for it? Any argument made from the Bible assuming it's factual from the beginning is a false premise. And so you falsely go round judging others based on false doctrines. This bible may well be responsible for a lot of the human suffering that has been endured since it was put into print. All kinds of strange ideas and customs have come from the book. And peoples lives have been destroyed from the types of judgement that are contained on its pages. People can justify about anything from its texts. Just goes to prove that if enough people believe it it's true. That perception creates reality. It's us the humans that make the problems. And it is we that must un make those problems. Humans are lazy and would rather create a God to fix them rather than look at the real mess they are and then fix it. We have been doing this for centuries. It's time humankind admits it's faults and goes about fixing them. We don't need books to tell us we are wrong to steal or cheat on one another. We know when we are wrong we choose to ignore it when we are doing wrong. Man is weak. Won't fess up. God or no god it's the same man who s causing all the problems.
It is pretty easy to feel put upon because there seems to be an automatic bias that Americans live in a Christian country. Many times Christian mythology is pushed and pushed with many ignorant Christians raving about how America is a Christian nation, when it is not..You know, that whole "land of the free" as in, "free to believe what you want".
As a non Christian it becomes difficult to muster up the empathy to show respect in the face of the smug, self centered mythology Christians talk about. I struggle to find respect for those who push their mythogy. I do however, respect Christian mythogy for giving many people the direction and peace they find by believing.
As a non Christian it becomes difficult to muster up the empathy to show respect in the face of the smug, self centered mythology Christians talk about. I struggle to find respect for those who push their mythogy. I do however, respect Christian mythogy for giving many people the direction and peace they find by believing.
- Sep 28, 2008
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I am also from a Catholic family, but we are not super religious so I only learned some things before my first communion. As a kid I never liked the whole "do this and that and then you will go to heaven" thing.
I actually like the idea of reincarnation better, and it makes also more sense to me. I believe you reincarnate with a certain set of souls, who are close to you and/or who will teach you something. It would definitely explain how people can instantly feel like they have known someone forever, when they have just met.
The idea of heaven sounds good too, but then I think there would be no one universal heaven that is shared with all the souls that have lived so far. Everyone's idea of heaven could be totally different. (As a kid I totally thought heaven looked like people chilling on a cloud, ha!)
I actually like the idea of reincarnation better, and it makes also more sense to me. I believe you reincarnate with a certain set of souls, who are close to you and/or who will teach you something. It would definitely explain how people can instantly feel like they have known someone forever, when they have just met.
The idea of heaven sounds good too, but then I think there would be no one universal heaven that is shared with all the souls that have lived so far. Everyone's idea of heaven could be totally different. (As a kid I totally thought heaven looked like people chilling on a cloud, ha!)
I don't think we go anywhere. I think we continue on, I just don't know as what or where. I truely believe this. As I grow older I become less afraid to die as I feel it is just the next stage of life. Well maybe it isn't called life anymore but it is definitely the next stage of something. I don't believe we are gone when we die. We are just not part of the life we are living now.
When the time comes for me to shed my earthly coil, a resplendent pink dragon will emerge to carry me off to the heavens so that I may join my fellow immortals. There I will be brought mead by valkyries as I merge with Brahman. Jesus will high-five me shortly before I realize that I have not yet escaped samsara and am to be reborn as a squirrel. If only my soul were light enough to pass through the molten metal by the grace of Ahura Mazda.
TBH, I think death is the absence of consciousness- just like it was a thousand years ago before we were born, and I am not a fan of concern trolling (especially under the pretense of religious salvation). It also does not make sense to me why, if it is so important to believe in Jesus, one could not do so after death rather than an hour before death? Does the covenant with God no longer apply once we have been resurrected and stand before Christ's throne awaiting judgment?
TBH, I think death is the absence of consciousness- just like it was a thousand years ago before we were born, and I am not a fan of concern trolling (especially under the pretense of religious salvation). It also does not make sense to me why, if it is so important to believe in Jesus, one could not do so after death rather than an hour before death? Does the covenant with God no longer apply once we have been resurrected and stand before Christ's throne awaiting judgment?
I believe that a life can be looked at like a waves in the ocean, which is constantly ebbing and flowing and coming in and out of being. Much the same as day and night. I think everything in life moves through circular patterns, and energy is not created but transformed. I think that if like is eternal, which I believe it is,- we die and are born over again.That our life is like a seed at the moment of death, containing the causes for the next life, when circumstances are right. This (Buddhist) view takes some of the fear out of death, which is the ultimate fear, because if life is eternal then there is more time. Also there is some responsibility in wanting to make good causes because there is a chain of causality and connectedness that runs through everything.