when bad people die | INFJ Forum

when bad people die

ImNotFullyJressed said:
He was such a good person and such a bad person at the same time. I don't know if he is in heaven or hell. (if there is one)
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We are all good and bad in our own way.
I always want that God is more mercyful than just (to quote MBTI test:). Because he sees us completely, from outside to inside. Human being is more complex than what we think we know about someone.
 
You know, there was actually a comedy song about this very topic., not that I in any way find this amusing, I actually understand far too well what you mean. Anyway, one of the lines of the song was

'even pricks turn into top blokes after death'.

This is very true in so many cases. Everyone has incredibly bad points, but somehow everyone forgets about them when that person is dead. Also, it's very easy to be good, loving and kind to the people around you, and easy to be inconsiderate, uncaring and cruel to the people who might well work for you in some country far away. Until you actually spend time with them and their families, I expects it's hard to see them as the same as your own wife and children.

There are good businessmen and bad ones. I know both. There's a guy I know on the homelessness prevention committee that I'm on who is a millionaire, but he cares about people who haven't got a safe and secure place to live.

His actions were definitely not those I want to see businesses take, and he should have been ashamed of them, but at the same time, I can see that he probably thought he was doing the best he could for his own family, which were more important to him.

It's a tough one.
 
We live lives filled with regret, lies, problems, evil and darkness sprinkled with kindness and compassion hoping the latter will be remembered when we a die and the former forgot.

I can't tell you whether or not your Cousin is Heaven, what I can say is that Heaven is filled with men who sinned on earth.
 
Sh*t. Sorry about your cousin. Death in the family is always tough.

Sounds like your cousin cared about your family but didn't give two sh*ts about things outside his inner circle. Good for your family. Bad for the world.
 
He's a sociopath. According to most that would be bad.
 
It sounds like you believe in God. In that case, isn't it God's decision where your cousin goes? What remains for you is forgiveness and love. I believe that removes the burden and guilt of judgement from you.
 
We're all slaves.
 
Oh, you really don't want to hear my opinion on this.

And lol at sociopath. Don't take that remark too seriously. Or even seriously at all.
 
I am unclear what you are looking for here INFJressed. You could of just brought the question up as an "in general" rather than use your recently deceased cousin as a specific example. You seem ambivalent towards those who give an honest opinion regarding what they see about the information YOU provided.
 
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ImNotFullyJressed said:
He was not a prick. He was an abnormally powerful and intelligent man (and I'm not saying that because he is dead or because he was my cousin). He graduated at the top of his class at UC Berkeley and became a self made millionaire before the age of 27. He was also very good to his direct family and his extended family. For example; he would buy me 49ers tickets and Cal Berkeley Basketball tickets at least 5-6 times a year. He always remembered everyones birthdays and always called. He was a good person but he separated himself from his morals when it came to business. He believed business was a game with different moral rules.
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the song was afterall a joke, but it did make the point that when the people we know die, we only ever focus upon the good at their funeral. I mean, I've never been to a funeral where everyone said nothing but bad stuff about the person...

When my uncle died, noone stood up and said that he was a drug addict loser, which he was....

We spend our lives focusing on the bad in people for the most part. it's only when they die do we realise that they actually had some pretty good points too.
 
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He sounds a lot like my cousin, who I have pegged down as an ENTJ. He is also very family oriented in a financially practical way, but is scrupulous when it comes to making his money he is also a self made millionaire. You need to not worry about if people are good or evil... those are merely points of view.
 
When my grandmother died, my mom told me she really hoped my grandmother wasn't going to hell. Some part of my mother truly believed that it was possible for my grandmother to go to hell. My grandmother was a troubled person and her children had issues with her but I think by no means was she evil. And even if I did believe in a hell (which I don't) I don't think she'd end up there.

You obviously believe that your cousin was a good man in how he treated his family but are conflicted because his business practices were not quite ethical.
I think you should let that conflict go. You knew him and you know what kind of man he really was. It sounds like you loved that man despite whatever else was going on. I think you should remember and hold onto the good that he left in the world and let the other stuff go.

Yes, it sounds like some of that stuff was bad but it doesn't sound like the person you are describing is evil. But I think you should stop worrying about if he was evil. You obviously cared about him based on your sensitive reactions to some of the comments here. And he loved his family. I don't think someone capable of love can truly be considered evil.

And like sonyab said...it's kind of hard for us to make a correct assumption about this guy because all we are working with is info you've provided us.
 
I cannot and will not make judgments on a person I do not know at all. We're all products of the experiences in our lives, and I cannot make a decision if someone is good or bad based on a paragraph about a life I know nothing about.

I think what is obvious here is that you are in pain, and for that you have my condolences. Death is never an easy thing to handle, and everyone who has died has had attractive and not so attractive qualities to them. For me to call your cousin a sociopath will achieve nothing, and it would be a baseless presumption. I hope that through all of this you can find some inner calm, and take the time to honestly deal with the emotions you are feeling. Conflict, anger, loss, lament; it's all part of the grieving process. Perhaps in the end you can take lessons from your cousin's life that will allow you to better the world, rather than harm it. Each day is a step towards healing for you and your family, and I wish you the best.
 
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To preface this. This person sounds like a Text book ENTJ and I tend to have strong feelings against these folks for reasons of morality. But here is where I stand.

ImNotFullyJressed said:
He was not a prick. He was an abnormally powerful and intelligent man (and I'm not saying that because he is dead or because he was my cousin). He graduated at the top of his class at UC Berkeley and became a self made millionaire before the age of 27. He was also very good to his direct family and his extended family. For example; he would buy me 49ers tickets and Cal Berkeley Basketball tickets at least 5-6 times a year. He always remembered everyones birthdays and always called. He was a good person but he separated himself from his morals when it came to business. He believed business was a game with different moral rules.
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The good doesn't out way his bad. He was a typical business man and as such gets no respect from me. Just because he thought business was a different game doesn't make him right or any less guilty of wrong.

Death doesn't change that either. The man stepped on people to get where he was he had to live with that and he must also deal with that as his legacy. And like many wealthy business oriented folks he was kind for those in his circle but didn't care about the world. That's not uncommon its just not good.

At the same time he did good along with the bad. He is like most he was out for him and his own. That's not a crime but its counter to many peoples view points. Mine included, I can't respect this person. But it doesn't mean you can't. You can also not agree with what he did and still love him.

I hope you find peace with this issue.
 
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AlienSpectator said:
It sounds like you believe in God. In that case, isn't it God's decision where your cousin goes? What remains for you is forgiveness and love. I believe that removes the burden and guilt of judgement from you.
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i agree with this. a lot of people do some really horrible things, but its not up to us to decide if they were a good person or a bad person. you never know what a person things or feels or why they do somethings. without this information you cannot say if they were good or bad. all we can do is love them no matter what
 
Seraphim said:
He probably isn't sure what he's looking for by posting this. He seems conflicted. That's understandable after someone he was close to just died. Honesty is one thing, insensitivity is another.

All I'll say is, it's easy to be nice to the people you personally care about. Even those considered to be bad people are usually nice to those they personally care about. But, we don't know what he was experiencing that caused him to lack concern for most people. It's easy to judge people by their actions but we have no idea how the combination of their experiences and their mental/emotional capacities may limit them. Only God knows that.
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This whole thing is perfect and captures everything I wanted to say.
 
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