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US/UK culture

justeccentricnotinsane

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Oct 7, 2008
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Hello. I'm from the UK and I don't really know much about the US apart from stereotypes.

So I'd kind of like to learn a bit more, though I think there's definitely going to be cultural differences.

One thing I was thinking about was the maxim of modesty. Although this is sort of changing (and a lot of people over here bemoan Americanisation), modesty is generally a big value in the UK. Arrogance is seen as abrasive. And by arrogance, I mean saying you're good at something. I have a German friend who at a party of mine admitted that she was good at something (I forget what now) and I had a lot of people saying to me "that friend of yours, she certainly knows how to blow her own trumpet doesn't she?" Whereas I actually know her and I know that she is pretty modest in that she sees herself as a pretty balanced sometimes good, something not individual not "great".

Because of that maxim of modesty, you get stereotypes like British self-deprecative (and dry) humour, which is sort of true.

I was sort of thinking about this because I'm quite intelligent and I get very embarrassed about it, choosing to either hide it, make deliberate mistakes, add qualifiers to my statements ("I think", "I don't really know, though", "I'm not very good at this", "I don't understand it properly) or just play it down and self-depracate - sometimes too much. This is partly, however, because I don't like being separated from the pack.

When I had a look at CBT, I looked at a British version, which talked about how difficult it is to say good things about yourself (to yourself) to improve your self esteem because we are taught to be modest from a young age.

And then I wondered if it was the same in the US.

I'm not saying people in the US are arrogant, by the way. NOT AT ALL! It's more that when I watch US programmes, saying good things about yourself seems to be praised a little more. It seems to be more acceptable. It also seems that it is not embarrassing in the US to be highly achieving and talk about it but actually admirable. Of course, I'm not talking about boasting.

The unfair stereotype in the UK might be that US people seem brash, although I haven't seen much evidence for this outside of Ricky Lake and Fox News. I don't know if it's easy to recognise the differences in culture if you're already living in it, but does anyone have comments? How is modesty/arrogance/self praise seen in the US? What would you say is acceptable and what is not? Is there still a great pressure to ensure you self deprecate while talking about your achievements? Is it embarrassing if you accidentally talk about your achievements without self deprecating or playing it down?
 
Meh, us UK types tend to hang on to that stiff upper lip, internalise everything and just get on with it culture. I think bragging, or being honest about your abilities, *is* seen as weird here. Which, I don't mind saying, is a little stupid xD What does annoy me is people who actually BRAG about their achievements, because that serves only to make themselves feel great in the face of other lesser souls xD Honesty, I don't have a problem with :3
 
USA all the way. Thats all you need to know. Yeehaw!
 
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"At home I am a nice guy: but I don't want the world to know. Humble people, I've found, don't get very far." -Muhammad Ali

"Believe in yourself! Have faith in your abilities! Without a humble but reasonable confidence in your own powers you cannot be successful or happy." - Norman Vincent Peale


ETA: A fallacy I am seeing is that one neglects to remember that a person has to "sell" themselves in order to become successful. This is a big country and the competition is extremely high, especially since the majority of people are willing to move where-ever they can to achieve success. Just remember that the U.S. cannot be stereotyped as a whole, there are always subgroups and a variety of cultures/social mores within. It is culture of the U.S. people to be individualistic, to advocate for themselves, to voice their opinions, exercise their rights, etc, etc. It's a dog eat dog world, where every man has to fend for himself and his family.
 
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Hello. I'm from the UK and I don't really know much about the US apart from stereotypes.

So I'd kind of like to learn a bit more, though I think there's definitely going to be cultural differences.

One thing I was thinking about was the maxim of modesty. Although this is sort of changing (and a lot of people over here bemoan Americanisation), modesty is generally a big value in the UK. Arrogance is seen as abrasive. And by arrogance, I mean saying you're good at something. I have a German friend who at a party of mine admitted that she was good at something (I forget what now) and I had a lot of people saying to me "that friend of yours, she certainly knows how to blow her own trumpet doesn't she?" Whereas I actually know her and I know that she is pretty modest in that she sees herself as a pretty balanced sometimes good, something not individual not "great".

Because of that maxim of modesty, you get stereotypes like British self-deprecative (and dry) humour, which is sort of true.

I was sort of thinking about this because I'm quite intelligent and I get very embarrassed about it, choosing to either hide it, make deliberate mistakes, add qualifiers to my statements ("I think", "I don't really know, though", "I'm not very good at this", "I don't understand it properly) or just play it down and self-depracate - sometimes too much. This is partly, however, because I don't like being separated from the pack.

When I had a look at CBT, I looked at a British version, which talked about how difficult it is to say good things about yourself (to yourself) to improve your self esteem because we are taught to be modest from a young age.

And then I wondered if it was the same in the US.

I'm not saying people in the US are arrogant, by the way. NOT AT ALL! It's more that when I watch US programmes, saying good things about yourself seems to be praised a little more. It seems to be more acceptable. It also seems that it is not embarrassing in the US to be highly achieving and talk about it but actually admirable. Of course, I'm not talking about boasting.

The unfair stereotype in the UK might be that US people seem brash, although I haven't seen much evidence for this outside of Ricky Lake and Fox News. I don't know if it's easy to recognise the differences in culture if you're already living in it, but does anyone have comments? How is modesty/arrogance/self praise seen in the US? What would you say is acceptable and what is not? Is there still a great pressure to ensure you self deprecate while talking about your achievements? Is it embarrassing if you accidentally talk about your achievements without self deprecating or playing it down?

I worked for a British organization for 3 years around people who had been in this country for over 20 years. After I was fired, the comment another ex-employee made is "Of course we were fired, we're not good little Brits." The meaning of course, is that we said what needed to be said to the people who needed to hear it most and therefore were "forced" out the door.

Stereotyping people might be a bad thing, but the stereotypes themselves are based on reality. Between the US and UK, it's a two way street. You might have some of the US but we have a lot of the UK as well. The case above was directed more at the British tendency to not really say what's meant and/or to hand out compliments with a dose of criticism - the back-handed compliment.

Likewise, I can also stereotype us Americans as people who always blurt out everything on our mind and argue with everyone. Obviously people on this forum wouldn't fall into that group on a regular basis, but it's the culture we're used to. The truth for each culture is somewhere between the two though, but those stereotypes are still based on something.
 
I always got a good chuckle at how British people would tote their modesty and how they hated people who were arrogant, and yet they were one of the biggest evilest murderous empires up until a hundred years ago. You gotta be arrogant to think you "own" Hong Kong, to think you "own" India etc, to see the native people there as less human and less civilized then your own. Dont even get me started on what they did to Ireland and Scotland.

Personally I like that they think Americans are rude, loud, and arrogant because we are, but we also kick ass for real... its not like we dont kick ass... there is nothing worse then someone who is weak and acts like they are strong and arrogant, if you got it, use it and dont be afraid to flaunt it.
 
I don't really think British colonialism is relevant here. Most countries have brutal wars in the past - it's the way the world was. I don't think it's necessary to take such an aggressive tone, as far as I can tell, this thread was not intended as a jab at American culture, nor a brag about what some people see as Britain's superiority... just a question of interest.
 
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Oh come on, are we really going to get into this? I'm sorry but I think turning this into a "Your country fucked up here," back and forth is really pointless and hinders discussion.

As for the OP -- New Zealand was a British colony so we have a bit of that attitude here, too. It's just not the culture here to brag about your achievements and demand recognition. Modesty is good, but sometimes it's taken too far and people who have made wonderful achievements are knocked down.. tall poppy syndrome. I think there definitely is a fine line, that no one has quite got the hang of yet.
 
Focusing on UK/US and complementary qualities, I notice that both have a strong determination. Both are very competitive but in different ways. Both strive to be the best in whatever they do. They are great motivators to action. They are both inspiration cultures who strive to be role models but in different areas. I do notice that Brits gives the impression of always striving for a high level of excellence in whatever they do especially in theatre, while Americans stress or strongly support for the right of the individual to accomplish whatever they believe or want to do even if it isn't popular or socially acceptable.
 
Unpopular opinion. British culture trumps American culture. American technology trumps British technology. Culture trumps technology.
 
From what I can tell, people in the U.S. would indeed feel more free to say if they are good at something...it does not come off as arrogance, just a statement. Often times such things are said in the context of being able to help in some measure with a given task, or to advise in a certain matter. It is seldom used to convey an air of superiority...in fact, I think the assumption is that most everybody is good at something.
 
I'm sorry but I think turning this into a "Your country fucked up here," back and forth is really pointless and hinders discussion.

The assumption of a homogeneous American or British culture is already wrong. Right from the start this thread has been pointing towards chauvinism. That is why this thread won't solve or clarify anything.
 
sounds like a light version of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jante_Law

But, I appreciate modesty, bragging is rude.


The Jante Law came to mind for me as well.

Having seen both sides, I would say that the American way is not so much about saying it's okay to brag; it seems to be about the European communal agreement that you should never say anything positive about yourself, and I think this has to do with people over there being a more so jealous bunch than Americans. The stereotype is that Americans are laid-back, and it is true!

Example: Telling people in Sweden that I'm moving to the US was met with "oh, neat" (monotone voice, no excitement. It seemed almost passive-agressive in some ways.) End of convo, PLEASE MOVE ONTO SOMETHING ELSE kind of thing. If I choose to tell people here that I'm from Sweden it'll be like "oh wow awesomeness" followed by a string of compliments, usually.

PS. Seeing as how this thread has become "argumentative", I'd like to add that I think the US and Europe are about equally as good.
 
I don't really think British colonialism is relevant here. Most countries have brutal wars in the past - it's the way the world was. I don't think it's necessary to take such an aggressive tone, as far as I can tell, this thread was not intended as a jab at American culture, nor a brag about what some people see as Britain's superiority... just a question of interest.

Sometimes opinions arent pretty. I find that modesty should be modesty in all facets of culture, you really cant claim to be modest when you consider people you conquer subhuman... it sorta just sounds funny. I am not trying to say the US is somehow good... im just saying, well you get what I'm saying.
 
You mean like Vietnam?

I'd like to point out that the U.S. didn't lose a single battle in the Vietnam conflict. Weird how you can win every fight and still lose the war.


That also reminds me, do anybody else wonder if the Japanese find U.S. game and reality shows to be strange or retarded.