US/UK culture

[Stella]

Anyway.

I'd say Americans are ok with saying you're good at something, but when you get to saying you're the best at something then it is not tolerated as nicely.

For example, if I were to have the best grade on some test (a 98%, for example), I'd say "I actually got a really good grade." (I personally would make it seem like I was surprised I got such a grade. Dunno about others.) I would not say "I got the best grade of everyone." If I were to do that, people would be thinking I were too smug. Then again, if I were to say "I did badly" or "I could have done better," people would also think I was either too smug or had bad self confidence.

It's impossible. Seems like you can't really be confident or unconfident here. Just exist. Make a confident statement, maybe cancel it out with a less confident one.

 

[justeccentricnotinsane]

Thanks for all the replies. This was really interesting to read.

First of all: @Billy - I'm not sure it's fair to blame my generation for the colonisation of countries that were returned to their original leadership either before my birth or when I was a young child. You're talking about centuries ago here. The world war was less than 100 years ago and survivors are still among us but I wouldn't dare judge a German according to Hitler's deeds. Besides, we didn't nuke Japan and we sold you the slaves but didn't much use them ourselves, or not to the same extent, and became culturally less racist a long time before you. I'm not starting a Brit/US war here, because that would never end. We're both as bad and as good as each other, as far as I can tell, though I admit I probably wouldn't have said that 5 years ago. My point is, we can't be blamed for our grandparents' doings. I'm not angry at Americans my age for Vietnam/Hiroshima/slavery/racism (well I guess some people are sort of backward and still racist) because that would be insane!

Also, thank you @Wish for pointing out that I did not accuse anyone of anything or attempt to show superiority. In fact, I meant the opposite really. That often British modesty is unreasonable in that it can have the tall poppy effect that @Wish mentioned. I really was just giving one example so we could discuss the difference between the nations. I could have used any topic.

And @technics - OI! CONTEXT! What I said, in case anyone only saw that quote and didn't read everything, was that the reason I was asking the question is because I'm "intelligent and embarrassed about it". OK?! ;-) (it's ok, I'm guessing this was a joke )

 

[Free Mind]

From what I can tell, people in the U.S. would indeed feel more free to say if they are good at something...it does not come off as arrogance, just a statement. Often times such things are said in the context of being able to help in some measure with a given task, or to advise in a certain matter. It is seldom used to convey an air of superiority...in fact, I think the assumption is that most everybody is good at something.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[Billy]

Im not starting a US/UK war either, both are equally bloodstained as far as I am concerned... I just thought it was hilarious that British people now and back then claimed a sense of modesty and propriety while enslaving other countries. You dont find that at least a little ironic? And while you may not have done those things, not even recently you still benefit from the rape and murder your ancestors committed every single day. So do we... but then, we dont call ourselves modest or pretend that modesty is possible when youre in the middle of benefitting from atrocities your people commit.


FREE IRELAND!

 

[justeccentricnotinsane]

Im not starting a US/UK war either, both are equally bloodstained as far as I am concerned... I just thought it was hilarious that British people now and back then claimed a sense of modesty and propriety while enslaving other countries. You dont find that at least a little ironic? And while you may not have done those things, not even recently you still benefit from the rape and murder your ancestors committed every single day. So do we... but then, we dont call ourselves modest or pretend that modesty is possible when youre in the middle of benefitting from atrocities your people commit.


FREE IRELAND!

Hmmmm.

 

[Billy]

The "FREE IRELAND" bit was a joke.

 

[Nixie]

The "FREE IRELAND" bit was a joke.

You are definately one of my favorite people Billy.

Okay, moving on.

I always saw the British self-deprecation and value toward modesty as an attempt to demonstrate "Breeding" and signify "Elite" status and "Culture".

The lack of "Breeding" among Americans is demonstated (to the British) by their loud, obnoxious and immodest behavior proving a distinct lack of "Culture".

Uh, yea..no offense.

 

[Billy]

You are definately one of my favorite people Billy.

Okay, moving on.

I always saw the British self-deprecation and value toward modesty as an attempt to demonstrate "Breeding" and signify "Elite" status and "Culture".

The lack of "Breeding" among Americans demonstated by the loud, obnoxious behavior proving a distinct lack of "Culture"

Uh, yea..no offense.

Yeah good point, I used to read a guys blog, a British Ex-Pat named the Shaky Kaiser or something like that he lived in Hong Kong. He posted a journal article from the 1800s in where a modest british citizen on business was complaining about the lack of servants in country and drivers because a plague had wiped them all out. Talk about modest lol.

 

[Nixie]

I'm not anti-Biritish by any means. I am just giving my opinion of how a particular cultural or national trait gains value and importance. As a society deeply ingrained by a social "class" structure, it seems obvious to me--distinctions of behavior and tenents of "proper" behavior are used to solidify the differences between the various social strata.

It is those "distinctions of behavior" that enable various members to readily identify one another as "above, below, or on par"--thus determing the nature and manner in which the members will interact with one another. When people do not follow those "distinctions of behavior" (ie..Americans) it throws a huge f*ucking monkey wrench in the whole works and "bollocks" one doesn't know how one is supposed to behave.

 

[Billy]

I'm not anti-Biritish by any means. I am just giving my opinion of how a particular cultural or national trait gains value and importance. As a society deeply ingrained by a social "class" structure, it seems obvious to me--distinctions of behavior and tenents of "proper" behavior are used to solidify the differences between the various social strata.

Well yeah, thats the BORING way of putting it, the fun way to put it is to insult them and laugh as they turn red har har har.

 

[Nixie]

Well yeah, thats the BORING way of putting it, the fun way to put it is to insult them and laugh as they turn red har har har.

F You Billy--that there is the freaking Thinker way of handeling that mutha
So you can kiss my "you know what"

Edit: Where are my manners?....please....and thank you....

 

[justeccentricnotinsane]

You are definately one of my favorite people Billy.

Okay, moving on.

I always saw the British self-deprecation and value toward modesty as an attempt to demonstrate "Breeding" and signify "Elite" status and "Culture".

The lack of "Breeding" among Americans is demonstated (to the British) by their loud, obnoxious and immodest behavior proving a distinct lack of "Culture".

Uh, yea..no offense.

That's a really interesting point. Definitely could be true because the nouveau riche (socially mobile) were historically thought to be uncouth because of their brashness and lack of "manners".

I used to study American ideology at uni because I did a film degree and american ideology is a massive topic within that (due to the influence of Hollywood). We did look at British ideology as well, with the war films and such like, but it was very old-fashioned "stiff-upper-lip" and seeing as the upper classes were involved in film then it's not really representative. Unfortunately, when it comes to film, all the decent British stuff is still stuck in the same rut - class divisions.

I suppose it's quite difficult to understand the ideology you live in as well, while it's all too simple to study the theoretical ideology of a culture that you've never been in.

It's quite interesting about the superiority thing. I think this is definitely the (rather shamefully true) stereotype we get from everywhere. Generally, though the stereotypes of the Brits are different in Europe to the US. The US version (from what I can tell from films and TV) is true of Britain a century ago and only for the upper classes. The European stereotype of violent, ignorant lager louts is much closer to the truth nowadays. However, my German friend said this stereotype is also mixed with a stereotype of us being prudish - which is true from a European standpoint and not a US one (although the US see us being prudish in a different way). British people, oddly, would probably think of Americans as being prudish, needlessly polite ("have a nice day" culture), overly passionate and emotional etc. I agree with @Sonya 's point that this probably as something to do with ideological standpoint of "breeding" since Britain's history is so dependent on it.

Anyway, I really like discussing this stuff because ideology's sort of weird and interesting. And @Billy - it's ok, it was more of a "I don't know which bits you're joking about anymore" comment then anything And no worries anyone offending me or anything. I just wanted to talk about it. I'll only be offended if it's a personal attack! But I don't represent England so I won't be taking any offence on our behalf! We're awful, ignorant, disrespectful, increasingly right-wing people anyway!

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I hope I didn't offend anybody because some people seemed to think I was saying something bad about Americans at first. Not the case at all. I was just interested in the differences, but I didn't really put it very well because I thought I'd better give a specific example and I think that kind of pushed things in the wrong direction.

 

[Billy]

pffft, thinker rhymes with stinker FOR A REASON (possibly)

 

[Billy]

That's a really interesting point. Definitely could be true because the nouveau riche (socially mobile) were historically thought to be uncouth because of their brashness and lack of "manners".

I used to study American ideology at uni because I did a film degree and american ideology is a massive topic within that (due to the influence of Hollywood). We did look at British ideology as well, with the war films and such like, but it was very old-fashioned "stiff-upper-lip" and seeing as the upper classes were involved in film then it's not really representative. Unfortunately, when it comes to film, all the decent British stuff is still stuck in the same rut - class divisions.

I suppose it's quite difficult to understand the ideology you live in as well, while it's all too simple to study the theoretical ideology of a culture that you've never been in.

It's quite interesting about the superiority thing. I think this is definitely the (rather shamefully true) stereotype we get from everywhere. Generally, though the stereotypes of the Brits are different in Europe to the US. The US version (from what I can tell from films and TV) is true of Britain a century ago and only for the upper classes. The European stereotype of violent, ignorant lager louts is much closer to the truth nowadays. However, my German friend said this stereotype is also mixed with a stereotype of us being prudish - which is true from a European standpoint and not a US one (although the US see us being prudish in a different way). British people, oddly, would probably think of Americans as being prudish, needlessly polite ("have a nice day" culture), overly passionate and emotional etc. I agree with @Sonya 's point that this probably as something to do with ideological standpoint of "breeding" since Britain's history is so dependent on it.

Anyway, I really like discussing this stuff because ideology's sort of weird and interesting. And @Billy - it's ok, it was more of a "I don't know which bits you're joking about anymore" comment then anything And no worries anyone offending me or anything. I just wanted to talk about it. I'll only be offended if it's a personal attack! But I don't represent England so I won't be taking any offence on our behalf! We're awful, ignorant, disrespectful, increasingly right-wing people anyway!

Honestly I was 90% joking through the whole thing. I think human beings in general are disgusting creatures who kill each other for pathetic reasons I could no more despise the BS of British culture more then American, Chinese, French, Kenyan etc etc...

Here is a cultural thing I noticed in a semi serious vein about Brit vs American movies.

American movies tend to have a protagonist who finds a way to kick ass, he/she will overcome by their own will and learn and win. 99/100 times to give us the "American Happy Ending" we are alls o accustomed to. Whereas in British films, the protagonist NEVER succeeds because he/she kicks ass...

like in Harry Potter... JESUS is it me or does anyone else think Harrys fame and accolades are completely unwarranted? He gets his ass KICKED in every film, and still manages to squeak ahead to victory by either lucky or someone elses actions... I notice this theme in a LOT of British films. I wanted to see Harry get murdered every movie for the last decade they put out, because seriously he sucks... LOTR too! Thank god for Gollum biting the ring off of Frodos finger!

 

[Nixie]

Yes, well the most facinating thing about national/cultural traits is that while the underlying, historical context changes, the behavior or strictures for/against specific behavior remain unchanged. One must usually go back at least a generation to see the origins of societial constructs to grasp the significance of why the behavior exists. Accordingly, such strictures are difficult to break because they become dogmatic. Additionally, since the behavior is "passed on" it loses integrity until such a point when the general consensus determines that changes must occur. However, then one is confronted with the idea that such behavior is "tradition". I find it an interesting study since I have had to exist in a culture that isn't my own my entire life. Oh yea and I'm a total nerd.

 

[justeccentricnotinsane]

Honestly I was 90% joking through the whole thing. I think human beings in general are disgusting creatures who kill each other for pathetic reasons I could no more despise the BS of British culture more then American, Chinese, French, Kenyan etc etc...

Here is a cultural thing I noticed in a semi serious vein about Brit vs American movies.

American movies tend to have a protagonist who finds a way to kick ass, he/she will overcome by their own will and learn and win. 99/100 times to give us the "American Happy Ending" we are alls o accustomed to. Whereas in British films, the protagonist NEVER succeeds because he/she kicks ass...

like in Harry Potter... JESUS is it me or does anyone else think Harrys fame and accolades are completely unwarranted? He gets his ass KICKED in every film, and still manages to squeak ahead to victory by either lucky or someone elses actions... I notice this theme in a LOT of British films. I wanted to see Harry get murdered every movie for the last decade they put out, because seriously he sucks... LOTR too! Thank god for Gollum biting the ring off of Frodos finger!

Sorry I didn't realise you were joking, I've come to realise some people on the internet are actually like that!

And spot on, by the way. This is pretty much a good synopsis of the differences in film and what they say about the makers of the films (what they value, what ideology they follow). It says a little more about US film in that context, though. As a lot of European films (more so than British) have a similar theme of no one winning in the end, or things going wrong. In European films, it is often far more open-ended, showing that nothing is ever complete. This can make some European films seem more arty but there's probably a few reasons for that 1) only the really arty stuff makes it's way to the UK and 2) We can thank the Europeans for most modernist and arty themes in film anyway and 3) European films tend more towards realism - there's never a winner - unless they are based in fantasy (and a lot of them are).

The winning thing is very US ideology. The basics that I learned about where just about exactly what America is based on - independence, earning success, distrust of the government, bylaws over central laws (vigilantism in Westerns) - distrust of authority. These things tend to be shown through American film - the Western is the absolute best to see it. The lone cowboy who travels in, sorts shit out and fucks off again. That's your basic "America" ideology. The hero - but he doesn't necessarily need anyone, he's there to do good, to win - and he's not going to listen to any damn corrupt authorities!

British culture is more to do with "battling through" - the pride comes not from winning but from not crying while it was happening! :-D In the world war, Americans had long sagas that were either fantastical dream spaces (Wizard of Oz) or about American heroes (Westerns). In England, we had mothers and their children at home in blitz, bombs raining all around them but nobody getting dirt on their petticoat anyway and absolutely no one whining!

It's a different source of pride. America wins, Britain suffers (and then feels superior about it) :-D
A lot of comedians have said of British culture that we like to talk about what shit we've been through and how awful everything is more than we like talking about things going well. We're a generally pessimistic self-loathing country in some ways. We feel special by complaining about "how awful Britain is", even if we're only talking about the weather. We tend to identify with what is bad about where we live where, as far as I can tell, people in the US tend to identify by what is good. My boyfriend told me there was some video online about a city in the US that had been voted the unhappiest and did one of those lip-syncing, choreographed videos to a song with hundreds of them in the streets and all the fire brigade and stuff.....

I bought a book called "the worst towns in Britain" because mine was in there and I was proud. That's what would happen in the UK. You'd have people say "it's much worse where I am than where you are", rather than "it's much better" and if someone mentioned doing a video like that - well, it would just never happen.

EDIT: Reading that back through I like you guys better...I'm going to have to think of some good things to say about Britain!

PS: Last point honest! (oh how I loved talking about this for three years at uni!) - One theme you get in America and not in Britain - moralising. A lot of American TV shows finish with a "message" (or get self-reflexive and make fun of the fact they don't). I have one complaint though. Another thing US filmmakers do is give reasons - make things psychological or logical in some way. I wouldn't mind but if you're going to remake Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, you're ruining my childhood when you give Willie Wonka a psychological reason to be the way he is :-( I don't know how Tim Burton could do this to me.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I think UK/Australian cultures must be closer than US/Australian cultures - because I have always found Americans -as a group- more difficult to tolerate.

When I'm in the US - I will often listen quietly while some expert, newbie, overachiever, etc. tries to impress me about their abilities and how much they can handle. I later take special care to point out how they have not lived up to my expectations when things go pear-shaped.

British folk on the other hand are always slow to bragg (as observed in OP) - and are much, much better listeners than Americans in general. I am always quietly impressed by the professionalism of Brits.

These are just generalities. There are exceptional people on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

[justeccentricnotinsane]

I think UK/Australian cultures must be closer than US/Australian cultures - because I have always found Americans -as a group- more difficult to tolerate.

When I'm in the US - I will often listen quietly while some expert, newbie, overachiever, etc. tries to impress me about their abilities and how much they can handle. I later take special care to point out how they have not lived up to my expectations when things go pear-shaped.

British folk on the other hand are always slow to bragg (as observed in OP) - and are much, much better listeners than Americans in general. I am always quietly impressed by the professionalism of Brits.

These are just generalities. There are exceptional people on both sides of the Atlantic.

That professionalism may be born of a superiority complex, though

The professionalism sense may also have a basis in British "stoicism". It is generally more frowned upon in GB than the US to express emotions publicly. I personally find it embarrassing when people are publicly emotional but that might just be me being a dick :-D It really depends on the circumstances. I'm fine with people being emotional when there's justification - although it makes me uncomfortable because it's very hurtful to see people upset - but getting emotional over larger events that don't concern you I find a bit embarrassing. I think there's a big difference between the UK and US when it comes to passion, and in this instance I would say Aussies are more like us but maybe even more so people from NZ, who, watching their films, seem quite British. Apart from the big Princess Di ridiculousness - which I still find unbelievable but that's mass hysteria for you - you wouldn't find a display like the one seen in NY when Osama bin Laden was killed anywhere in England. There is nowhere near that level of patriotism or passion in the UK and nowhere near the same idea of commonality. Americans "stand together" oddly due to their independence attitude, and feel pride in their country. I think Brits are also proud to be British but their just isn't the same level of feeling there, you just don't get many emotional displays here and you certainly don't get any attachment to the flag. People do not have any feelings about the union jack. It is not a widely used symbol for anything while the ST george's cross and welsh/scottish flags are used for football and for far-right wing groups only (so they have a bad name and people don't like to be associated with them). Someone also proposed a few years ago that teenagers should have an oath like the thing they say in US schools - I've forgotten what that is now. There's something kids have to say at school isn't there? Or is that a myth?. Anyway, the idea of teenagers having to swear their allegiance to queen and country was seen as 1) Utterly ridiculous and 2) Deeply offensive. So there's a bit of a difference there.

That's not to say emotional displays and patriotism are wrong or bad, I don't think one's better than the other, but there's certainly a "one should be professional about this" attitude that you reminded me of.

Always wondered what Aussie's thought of the UK