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Trump will win again

Serious question: What is it about Trump's presidency that makes another term with him unbearable?
He was hired to do a job - regardless of his personality - what is it about the job he's doing that makes him unqualified?

We as Americans have started to value sociability in work/jobs more than competency. This is why our country is in the mess it's in. Obama was a likeable person, but hardly qualified for the presidency. Our country is drowning in deficits, slow economic recovery/growth and shady political tactics that are often at the expense of the American people.

Donald Trump was not someone I pictured myself voting for. But I did because in comparison to the other candidates, his resume made him more qualified to fix the messes our country has faced. The only thing that I feel needs to happen in this country and I don't care who implements it - is FAIR TAX. Everyone pay the same percentage, no loop holes.

I'm more a of conservative libertarian probably and I never got why so many INFJs are hardcore liberals. I don't think anyone owes anyone else anything. I think that everything should be as fair as possible. Equal rights, equal taxes, equal opportunities, equal sentencing for the same crimes (not by the personal discretion of a judge)....equal, equal, equal.
 
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selcouth said:
Serious question: What is it about Trump's presidency that makes another term with him unbearable?
He was hired to do a job - regardless of his personality - what is it about the job he's doing that makes him unqualified?

We as Americans have started to value sociability in work/jobs more than competency. This is why our country is in the mess it's in. Obama was a likeable person, but hardly qualified for the presidency. Our country is drowning in deficits, slow economic recovery/growth and shady political tactics that are often at the expense of the American people.

Donald Trump was not someone I pictured myself voting for. But I did because in comparison to the other candidates, his resume made him more qualified to fix the messes our country has faced. The only thing that I feel needs to happen in this country and I don't care who implements it - is FAIR TAX. Everyone pay the same percentage, no loop holes.

I'm more a of conservative libertarian probably and I never got why so many INFJs are hardcore liberals. I don't think anyone owes anyone else anything. I think that everything should be as fair as possible. Equal rights, equal taxes, equal opportunities, equal sentencing for the same crimes (not by the personal discretion of a judge)....equal, equal, equal.
Click to expand...
Preach!
 
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@selcouth flat taxes are regressive people who make less money pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes. (i love how he is forever referring to america's golden past without mentioning the very high marginal taxes that were collected back then)
that said, it is his incompetence that is truly alarming, his constant assault on the social safety net, his tolerance for murderous behavior by the foreign leaders he praises, his endless lies and the underlying criminality of his personal businesses. Not to mention his racism and mysogynism oh yeah and that collusion with the frickin ruskies (like that did not happen)
 
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Stu said:
@selcouth flat taxes are regressive people who make less money pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes. (i love how he is forever referring to america's golden past without mentioning the very high marginal taxes that were collected back then)
that said, it is his incompetence that is truly alarming, his constant assault on the social safety net, his tolerance for murderous behavior by the foreign leaders he praises, his endless lies and the underlying criminality of his personal businesses. Not to mention his racism and mysogynism oh yeah and that collusion with the frickin ruskies (like that did not happen)
Click to expand...

Still better than Hillary though.
 
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Stu said:
@selcouth flat taxes are regressive people who make less money pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes. (i love how he is forever referring to america's golden past without mentioning the very high marginal taxes that were collected back then)
that said, it is his incompetence that is truly alarming, his constant assault on the social safety net, his tolerance for murderous behavior by the foreign leaders he praises, his endless lies and the underlying criminality of his personal businesses. Not to mention his racism and mysogynism oh yeah and that collusion with the frickin ruskies (like that did not happen)
Click to expand...
I want start out by saying I lean libertarian maybe even anarcho-capitalist. I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out. That said, I'm not a fan of any of the candidates from 2016.

Quid est veritas
What is truth?

Calling a flat tax regressive doesn't mean it is wrong or bad.

There were so many loop holes while those high rates were in place the wealthy almost never paid those rates, if at all.

What are you referring to with "incompetence?"

By social safety net do you mean social security and Medicaid/Obamacare or morals and the institution of family and community? Each have different points of discussion.

Isn't the current tolerance of those leaders a continuation of previous policy? I will say this, there is more negotiating power when you befriend the other as opposed to calling them out and pissing them off.

He is a liar, but which president hasn't lied to this nation? Too much is staked in the presidency. It is just a man with a label. Changes and ideas come to life in congress, if ever.

I haven't seen the criminality of his businesses. Don't forget, innocent until proven guilty. If its in civil court, he'll go to jail if he doesn't make reparations.

I don't believe he is racist.

I doubt he hates, holds contempt, or has prejudice for/against women.

There hasn't been anything brought forth that proves he colluded with the Russians to get elected.
 
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well he is gonna need your vote
 
selcouth said:
Serious question: What is it about Trump's presidency that makes another term with him unbearable?
He was hired to do a job - regardless of his personality - what is it about the job he's doing that makes him unqualified?

We as Americans have started to value sociability in work/jobs more than competency. This is why our country is in the mess it's in. Obama was a likeable person, but hardly qualified for the presidency. Our country is drowning in deficits, slow economic recovery/growth and shady political tactics that are often at the expense of the American people.

Donald Trump was not someone I pictured myself voting for. But I did because in comparison to the other candidates, his resume made him more qualified to fix the messes our country has faced. The only thing that I feel needs to happen in this country and I don't care who implements it - is FAIR TAX. Everyone pay the same percentage, no loop holes.

I'm more a of conservative libertarian probably and I never got why so many INFJs are hardcore liberals. I don't think anyone owes anyone else anything. I think that everything should be as fair as possible. Equal rights, equal taxes, equal opportunities, equal sentencing for the same crimes (not by the personal discretion of a judge)....equal, equal, equal.
Click to expand...

If you are asking this question legitimately what I've found is it's a difference in the way of viewing the world and what is valued as important to both sides. I'm defining a 'left' side and a 'right' side. Both have extremists and both have perfectly reasonable people in it, and each side attacks the extremists and tries to make them represent what the other side looks like. I listen to a lot of left and right podcasts and politics and I've noticed some key differences:

The right (Including right leaning libertarians that I think are now the 'real' right wing) value winning and succeeding. They believe it's a dog eat dog world and that if you aren't good enough then you get what you earned, which was nothing. It's very much a me vs them attitude for a lot of people, and focus on individual people rather than the group as a whole. You can make it big if you put enough hard work into it. If you don't make it you don't have anyone else to blame. People who aren't succeeding often times are lazy or not working hard enough- there is a strong sense of accountability and the idea that you alone are responsible for you fate.

The left, including progressives, view the world as we're all a group together. We have to take care of each other and if there are weaker links in society we have to figure out why and support them. People cannot be successful only by themselves it is as a society we succeed together. The rights of everyone as a whole are valued over individual rights, so while it may be nice to do what you want, there are freedoms you give up living in a society and some things become restricted on a social basis.


The difference between them, broadly, is individualism vs collectivism.

People who don't like Trump, often dislike him because of things he does which are perceived as anti-collectivism. For example wanting to slash social programs, speaking of groups of people as being lazier or inferior to other groups of people, etc. It's also a continuation of the sentiment that happened under George Bush. Both sides, if they don't like somebody's policies, will also slander their character and with Republicans a cheap shot has been their intelligence, because Republicans tend to present themselves as more down to earth and the everyday layman and so they don't come across as "educated" like many democrats. Again it's because of the voter base they are trying to connect with, not actual intelligence level. The right likes to pick on AOC because she frequently, in her impassioned speeches, misquotes figures and facts. The gist of what she is saying is true but she'll flub the numbers nonetheless so because the right doesn't like her policies they attack her for these inaccuracies when it's often misquoted facts that mean the same but weren't word by word.

Personally, I am mixed about Trump. I don't want him as president predominantly because I know he won't implement the policies I want- expansion of social programs, he is harsh on illegal aliens which I don't support, etc. However. I don't know if any of you heard about this but it looks like he may not renew the NSA's wiretapping program, allegedly, they have not been running it for months already. I had high hopes that he was going to deliver on his promises when he pulled all these troops out, but then he just assigned them to a new territory. So he does things that seem promising, but then prompty does something that counters it. He's very confusing in that regard, but I appreciate the few things he does that I like, but many of the things, I simply am not a fan of.
 
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@slant That was a perfectly succinct analysis of the difference between left and right. It also seems that when you break down the groups to individuals and how they view their relationships in their personal social group (family, friends , colleagues) these distinctions become blurry with collectivists expecting more personal responsibility from those they are emotionally invested in and individualists demonstrating deep empathy, emotional and material support for the same.

I agree that many of the "norms" that the current band of yahoos comprising the executive branch have disrupted have been in need of change for a long time, I just see these guys as going at them with a sledge hammer and with the only intention in doing so is to monetize the mess in their favor.
 
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slant said:
If you are asking this question legitimately what I've found is it's a difference in the way of viewing the world and what is valued as important to both sides. I'm defining a 'left' side and a 'right' side. Both have extremists and both have perfectly reasonable people in it, and each side attacks the extremists and tries to make them represent what the other side looks like. I listen to a lot of left and right podcasts and politics and I've noticed some key differences:

The right (Including right leaning libertarians that I think are now the 'real' right wing) value winning and succeeding. They believe it's a dog eat dog world and that if you aren't good enough then you get what you earned, which was nothing. It's very much a me vs them attitude for a lot of people, and focus on individual people rather than the group as a whole. You can make it big if you put enough hard work into it. If you don't make it you don't have anyone else to blame. People who aren't succeeding often times are lazy or not working hard enough- there is a strong sense of accountability and the idea that you alone are responsible for you fate.

The left, including progressives, view the world as we're all a group together. We have to take care of each other and if there are weaker links in society we have to figure out why and support them. People cannot be successful only by themselves it is as a society we succeed together. The rights of everyone as a whole are valued over individual rights, so while it may be nice to do what you want, there are freedoms you give up living in a society and some things become restricted on a social basis.


The difference between them, broadly, is individualism vs collectivism.

People who don't like Trump, often dislike him because of things he does which are perceived as anti-collectivism. For example wanting to slash social programs, speaking of groups of people as being lazier or inferior to other groups of people, etc. It's also a continuation of the sentiment that happened under George Bush. Both sides, if they don't like somebody's policies, will also slander their character and with Republicans a cheap shot has been their intelligence, because Republicans tend to present themselves as more down to earth and the everyday layman and so they don't come across as "educated" like many democrats. Again it's because of the voter base they are trying to connect with, not actual intelligence level. The right likes to pick on AOC because she frequently, in her impassioned speeches, misquotes figures and facts. The gist of what she is saying is true but she'll flub the numbers nonetheless so because the right doesn't like her policies they attack her for these inaccuracies when it's often misquoted facts that mean the same but weren't word by word.

Personally, I am mixed about Trump. I don't want him as president predominantly because I know he won't implement the policies I want- expansion of social programs, he is harsh on illegal aliens which I don't support, etc. However. I don't know if any of you heard about this but it looks like he may not renew the NSA's wiretapping program, allegedly, they have not been running it for months already. I had high hopes that he was going to deliver on his promises when he pulled all these troops out, but then he just assigned them to a new territory. So he does things that seem promising, but then prompty does something that counters it. He's very confusing in that regard, but I appreciate the few things he does that I like, but many of the things, I simply am not a fan of.
Click to expand...
Nice. Very nice. (Not sarcasm.) I think social programs can be eliminated federally and at the state level and exist at a local family/community level. I do believe individual responsibility is a huge part of success, but not everyone is born with the same intellectual capacity, physical abilities, financial advantages, and/or etc. So, yes, when these situations exist people should help others. Now, is the federal government best suited to handle those issues? From what I've heard, read, and seen, I don't think so. Taking the task off the government's hands is just the beginning of a bigger issue. What are programs we can implement privately and widespread to help those that need shelter and are hungry and thirsty or ill? How do we spread the mentality of helping others and not just look out for ourselves? How do we get more people in a position where they can support themselves, their family, and neighbors and have enough left over to want to help neighbors that aren't so close?
 
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selcouth said:
Serious question: What is it about Trump's presidency that makes another term with him unbearable?
He was hired to do a job - regardless of his personality - what is it about the job he's doing that makes him unqualified?
Click to expand...
For starters, the cost of healthcare is generally rising. Less coverage for more cost. He's done nothing substantive to address that issue.

Wages are not rising with inflation. The minimum wage has not risen at a federal level to meet basic costs of living nationwide. In practical terms, this means that more people are working longer hours just to stay economically afloat. He's done nothing substantive to address that issue.

Another problem, much of the American workforce is underemployed today, especially recent college graduates. Education, including a financially worthwhile one is generally far too costly. He's done nothing substantive to address that issue.

We as Americans have started to value sociability in work/jobs more than competency. This is why our country is in the mess it's in. Obama was a likeable person, but hardly qualified for the presidency.
Click to expand...
Quite frankly, neither were Abe Lincoln or Harry Truman. I want to know then, what "qualifies" someone for the presidency in your view.

Our country is drowning in deficits, slow economic recovery/growth and shady political tactics that are often at the expense of the American people.
Click to expand...
The shadow of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, tax evasion, and insufficient reforms to our welfare (yes, social security is a welfare program) and our evermore expensive healthcare system.

Donald Trump was not someone I pictured myself voting for. But I did because in comparison to the other candidates, his resume made him more qualified to fix the messes our country has faced.
Click to expand...
If we're going to go there, Ben Carson is far more qualified than Donald Trump.

After all, Carson is a self-made man and neurosurgeon.


The only thing that I feel needs to happen in this country and I don't care who implements it - is FAIR TAX. Everyone pay the same percentage, no loop holes.
Click to expand...
That's only feasible if there is little disparity between people's incomes. For that to occur, we need to get people into more tertiary sector professions.

I'm talkin' jobs, raises, and liberty.

I'm more a of conservative libertarian probably and I never got why so many INFJs are hardcore liberals. I don't think anyone owes anyone else anything. I think that everything should be as fair as possible.
Click to expand...
I'm not an ideologue.

I believe that government has a responsibility to care for its people and as a result, make them self-reliant.

Equal rights, equal taxes, equal opportunities, equal sentencing for the same crimes (not by the personal discretion of a judge)....equal, equal, equal.
Click to expand...
Hell yeah.
 
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slant said:
I'm really kind of shocked at the popularity of collusion russiagate threads here. The mainstream left's insistence to focus on Russia colluding with Trump as opposed to taking accountability for Hilary Clinton having been a poor candidate is astounding, and will indeed hurt their re-election chances for 2020 midterms.

Currently we're stuck between the likes of Kamala Harris, who laughs about putting parents in prison if their children miss too many days of school, and Joe Biden who doesn't understand economic realities for the younger generation
If this is the reality party dems insists on we're gonna lose the 2020 because me and many others sure as hell ain't gonna vote for these people, nor go along with this russiagate narrative.
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You forgot to mention Biden being a groper. Sweet Jesus if this is our reality we are fucked

Trump allegedly "grabbing by the pussy" could refer to anything sexual...ex girlfriend, Stormy Daniels.
People are into weird shit I guess

Biden just creeps me out
 
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Very hard to imagine Bidden making it to the end of the Nomination process. I read the Anita Hill interview in the NYT this week end...that shit ain't going away.
 
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