Thinking you know yourself and finding out you know nothing | INFJ Forum

Thinking you know yourself and finding out you know nothing

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by AUM, May 30, 2009.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 4 users.
More threads by AUM
  1. AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    132
    Messages:
    2,838
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,998
    Trophy Points:
    802
    MBTI:
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    Very frequently I tell myself that "I'm this, I'm that" etc etc. However right now I'm feeling like I've never known myself completely. I have no sense of values and don't give a damn about anything or anyone and I don't want to feel like that. Who am I? I'm not expecting anyone to give me an answer to this absurd question but rather I would like to rephrase it, who are we? Why do we kill each other, why are we greedy, why do we have feelings-emotions and most important why are we so damn imperfect? At the same token how is it possible that we as humans possess one of the most precious feelings such as love? Is there such thing as world peace when in fact there will always be fools whose ambition will corrupt the world once more. Is it worth dying for? even for the illusion that someday we will be living in peace as brothers and sisters, am I to naive to think this?

    Then after writing at all this I'm feeling angry that my friend isn't answering me to my calls and gradually I start to feel like I want to hate her because she's making me feel bad, is this how it all starts? by our own emotions?


     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Threads:
    762
    Messages:
    14,154
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2 sx/so/sp
    I pride myself on knowing who I am (among a few other things). However, over the past few years, I have realised that this is a never ending work in progress. You have to be confortable in knowing that it is near impossible to know yourself completly. So long as you keep asking yourself those burning questions, things will be fine.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Threads:
    29
    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    205
    Trophy Points:
    528
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    Enneagram:
    4w3
    I know myself in the fact that I don't know myself. It's like a huge building in a large city you walk my every day to work, or a large university campus when you only attend classes in a few of the buildings; you "know" it, but you don't really. Exploring is the best part, because you realize you know very little details, and you constantly find new things and new place and realize that things and places change sometimes...you may have favorite nooks and crannies, but the fact of the matter is you often forget what you've seen and what you haven't, or aren't quite sure of what you know or don't.

    How's that for an extended metaphor? Either way, accepting yourself is the first step towards understanding yourself, which is the first step to understanding and accepting others.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Enilas

    Enilas Newbie

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I believe that we're consistently inconsistent.

    People are always changing depending on the environment. We may tend to act a certain way in many situations, but there are those times where we don't act like the way we "should", from our point of view.

    That being said, this world is and will always be in a state of conflict. It's the way of the world. If conflict, good and evil, right and wrong, didn't exist, we wouldn't have the ability to think differently, and I'd personally think it'd be dull.

    Realize that conflict will always be around, but also realize that most people are here to make the world a better place. It's just that some help in different way than others.
     
  5. Julia

    Julia Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Threads:
    24
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    infj
    I think of myself more as a process than a particular product. The moment I define who I am doesn't account for the next influence that reshapes me. I have some sense of being fluid, like water or wind, in a state of evolution. Even though I am in my late 30's, I have remolded myself in fundamental ways over the last year to adapt to my new life. I don't know what I am, but I know how I respond.
     
  6. TaylorS

    TaylorS Community Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Threads:
    4
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    People are conditioned by genetics, society, upbringing, and life experience to view certain thoughts, behaviors, and actions as part of the "self" and others as "non-self", hence the remark "I wasn't acting like myself today". Psychologists refer to this as Ego-Systonic (agree-with-self) versus Ego-Dystonic (disagree-with-self) thoughts, behaviors and actions.

    In terms of Jungian personality psychology this is expressed in the four functions that are under some degree of conscious control and are in any case ego-systonic (Ni, Fe, Ti, and Se in us INFJs), and the 4 "shadow functions" that are unconscious, repressed, and ego-dystonic (for us Ne, Fi, Te, Si), which come out when we are stressed.

    This is especially true with Enneagram 1s and 2s like myself (1w2), we have a strong Super-Ego complex intensifying this ego-systonic and ego-dystonic distinction, we punish and criticize ourselves when think or behave in ways that violate our super-ego complex.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. rainrise

    rainrise Community Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Threads:
    29
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    577
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    that explains a lot
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. slant

    slant Roll with the punches
    Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Threads:
    365
    Messages:
    11,799
    Featured Threads:
    54
    Likes Received:
    24,397
    Trophy Points:
    1,901
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    ****
    Enneagram:
    6-4-9
    The human brain is not fully understood. You will not completely understand youself until someone is able to master the mind.

    Point made.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. acd

    acd Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Threads:
    143
    Messages:
    15,663
    Featured Threads:
    11
    Likes Received:
    36,271
    Trophy Points:
    1,387
    Location:
    fantasy world
    MBTI:
    infp
    Enneagram:
    9w8 sp/sx
    I like this. I know that I am amorphous.


    I also really like this, too!


    The only thing I absolutely know about myself, is that I am always changing and adapting to new circumstances and information. At the core, I know that I need harmony and peace and so I adapt to the chaos in any way to find that balance.

    An old boyfriend used to make fun of me when I said, "I am everything and nothing at the same time."

    I may not know exactly who I am, but I do sense when my boundaries are being encroached upon and when someone is invalidating me.
     
  10. chasing the wind

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Threads:
    2
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Another thumbs up to Julia. I also think that the moment I define who I am, I start using it as an excuse for things. "No, I can't meet new people--it's uncomfortable because of my personality."

    The only thing that keeps me challenging myself is knowing that I am always in process and will never fully know myself.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Faye

    Faye ^_^
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Threads:
    312
    Messages:
    7,301
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4,813
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Gridania
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    Yes, this is how it starts.
     
  12. Lurker

    Lurker Has nothing to destroy
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Threads:
    78
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    170
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    Enneagram:
    It starts by people not taking responsibility for their own emotions. Your friend isn’t doing anything to make you bad, you’re allowing yourself to feel bad but too often people would prefer to blame someone else for their own emotions, when they do that it’s easy to lash out and react with anger and violence. Own your emotional reactions and you'll understand yourself better.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Harmony

    Harmony Lucky

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Threads:
    1
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Knowing yourself is I believe an impossible process. But one it is important to undertake anyway.

    I can know myself as I am or as I was at any particular moment in time. This does not mean that I will know myself tomorrow.

    Personality development is not something that terminates abruptly at puberty when we emerge as fully formed "static" adults.

    Rather it is a dynamic lifelong process. Therefore I can never know all of me, all possible aspects.

    However I can live in the now and find ways to understand better why I respond as I do now, why I have responded as I did in the past and any adaptive lessons to be taken forward from the process.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. acd

    acd Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Threads:
    143
    Messages:
    15,663
    Featured Threads:
    11
    Likes Received:
    36,271
    Trophy Points:
    1,387
    Location:
    fantasy world
    MBTI:
    infp
    Enneagram:
    9w8 sp/sx
    Supposedly NFs are the only temperment that take 'knowing themselves' seriously to the point of making it a life mission. I think it's interesting we spend our lives getting to know ourselves only to die..
     
  15. Lune Froide

    Lune Froide Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Threads:
    10
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4wX
    I hadn't thought of it in that way before, that's interesting. Once in awhile I'll try and imagine being in the shoes of friends who have told me "existential thought does not interest them" and it's a struggle to comprehend. I feel envious sometimes with the way they are able to dissect life's trials and tribulations with what appears to be a certain ease.

    In response to the original post... I second that yes, emotions can play a large role in your actions and thoughts if you allow them to.
     
  16. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Threads:
    762
    Messages:
    14,154
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2 sx/so/sp
    I think it is IN's more then anything actually. I know a few ENFJ's and ENFP's that are actually quite oblivious who who they are, and several of them don't even try to.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. acd

    acd Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Threads:
    143
    Messages:
    15,663
    Featured Threads:
    11
    Likes Received:
    36,271
    Trophy Points:
    1,387
    Location:
    fantasy world
    MBTI:
    infp
    Enneagram:
    9w8 sp/sx
    I've just read that intuition coupled with feeling form the sort of temperment in which the individual's main motivation in life is to achieve things that are central to their values, and to achieve this by discovering who they are and what their values are.

    I wonder if it only seems that the ENFJs and ENFPs you know aren't concerned with finding themselves. Some of us may be farther along in our exploration than others.

    The ENFJs and ENFPs I happen to know are pretty self-aware people who seem to be guided by their subjectively derived ethics... and they're still exploring their personality.
     
    #17 acd, Jun 2, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  18. Duty

    Duty Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Threads:
    30
    Messages:
    1,069
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTP
    Enneagram:
    5w4
    I think the top thing I've learned in my self exploration is that there is no permanent "me." I'm an ever changing creature, and I should never define myself as being one thing or another.

    It is this realization that has brought me to do such things as try jalapeno peppers for the first time. Yup, 23 years old and never ate them because I defined myself as someone who wouldn't like that sort of thing.

    Exploring yourself is just that...exploring. You must leave the boundary of definition just as explorers of old would leave the boundary of country and land.
     
  19. Duty

    Duty Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Threads:
    30
    Messages:
    1,069
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTP
    Enneagram:
    5w4
    I don't think any temperment is the ones that do this specifically. I think it's just developed or people interesting in developing that do this. I've even known an ISTJ (you would think SJs just want to stay who they are and not develop at all) who is into self development.
     
  20. OP
    AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Threads:
    132
    Messages:
    2,838
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,998
    Trophy Points:
    802
    MBTI:
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    I don't know if it's an NF thing to act the way I do, but like Lurker said, I have to control my own emotions. There's no point in justifying human faults if there's way that one can change for the best regardless of a weakness that INFJ or any other types might possess. We have to stop identifying with a personality description and excuse everything we do "I'm sentimental because I'm an INFJ" or "I'm an asshole with no feelings because I'm an ESTJ". These examples are extremes but that's how I think we attach ourselves with personality types. Thank you everyone for your input and opinions. Peace.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
Loading...

Share This Page