the process of aging and death | INFJ Forum

the process of aging and death

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by TinyBubbles, Mar 12, 2010.

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  1. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    as once you were born one day you will die, whether through deliberate action or via the natural process of cell deterioration, your body won't last forever. ONE DAY YOU WILL DIE. the consequences of this statement cannot be overemphasized, in my most humble opinion. how does this make you feel? how do you put into perspective your entire life's accomplishments, knowing one day you yourself will perish? and one question which has been plaguing my mind all day: is death a natural process? since the cell has mechanisms in place to stave off gene mutations, infections, and irreparable physical damage to the cell components, it seems very likely that it "wants" (wants? can a physical process "want" anything?) to live.. yet it's not perfect. maybe it "wants" to mutate, to turn cancerous, to die.. because it does, eventually. the telomeres shorten after each replication unless you're an infant which eventually cause it to age and die,... is this natural? should it be? i guess that is the question i'm asking, should death occur? if we had the means to limit it, which in a way we do via diet and exercise and better health care programs, but say we could elongate our lives indefinitely.. if we could live forever.. would that be the right thing to do? what about you personally, would you want to live forever, if such a thing was possible? surely life, in any capacity, would be preferable to the uncertainty of nonexistence?
     
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  2. bamf

    bamf Is Watching You
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    With my current perspective of life and time, there's no way I'd want to live forever. The thought of never-ending sleep (or what ever happens after death) somewhere down the line is actually somewhat comforting to me. Of course I guess if there was a way I'd never get bored/tired of life, I could be fine with living forever...but then again that would only change if there was no such thing as time and yada yada yada.

    Seeing as it's 6:30am here and I've been at work since 11pm, I guess what I'm trying to say is no, life in any capacity isn't preferable to non-existence. The cessation of consciousness (if that's what happens) is a welcoming notion.
     
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  3. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    To me the state of "life" and "death" is the same state of matter and physical force(s?). Nothing sacred about it. People don't die, because people don't live, in the first place. People don't have fixed personalities. You can assume you die every day. Tomorrow you are not the same mind. The state of having consciousness is like keeping balance of some plates in mid-air. It is achieved through outside forces, and outside forces ruin its balance, so one must adjust, a little, all the time. The unique character development is how the plates are getting ordered. It forms some core static structure, but is also dynamic. When the brain has not been supplied with blood long enough, the wiring is lost, the plates fall, and if you don't pick them up fast enough, you will not be able to reorder them the same way again. People with different kinds of stroke change their personalities, or restart, like children, learning to walk and talk again. So what exactly is to be preserved? What could go in a memory bank, if we don't have fixed memories anyway. The whole history is a scam the way I see it, full of heroic leaders and thinkers, who have been nothing like what is described in the books and depicted on statues. This whole pantheon of icons is quite detrimental for human thought today. We have been trained for too long to assume some great importance of how our life ends, and what we've "achieved", but most of those, in the books, are deceptions and mis-credited. Our brains are not linear, and multiple sources influence our decisions, so there's never a clear-cut in causal inter-relationship. And we are unable to keep track of all inputs that influence us, which leaves the gray area of mysticism always open, unfortunately, so far, about where our ideas came from and what causes our bold and brave actions. Is it really "our" will? Let's see about that, in the years to follow.

    Of course, humans can live forever, whatever that means. With nanotechnology we can renew all body cells with healthy non-aged versions of our non-damaged DNA. Brain cells are also born from stem cells in later life, as recently discovered, not just dying in one direction. But we can help also the brain to keep its chemical properties at top levels, forever. The question is: why? I see nothing wrong with living forever, but I don't see why to do it. Even if life is pleasant, it also gets boring. For now, I would choose to die naturally, and go in the soil, like it used to be on this planet. Not that I see anything sacred in this natural cycle, but it feels right, what more to ask for. Whoever wants to live forever, let them enjoy "themselves". The notion of self is learned. Like we can teach animals self-awareness and thinking through the tools of languages, we teach our children too. If we don't teach them, and they don't have access to teach themselves, they don't have self-awareness, and they don't develop the language-based thought processes. That's why I say "self-awareness is bunk". Meaning, it's not something for granted. It's like a cult. If a brain isn't in the cult, it won't become what we call self-aware, on its own. Descartes is wrong, as we already know, about the separation of ration and emotion. It seems he was also wrong about "Think therefore I am"; he should have stopped at "thinking", because the "I" element also comes from outside, not from within. The brain is a network of neurons, capable of so many interesting things, some of which may be lost by enforcing what is called self. The difference between humans is not their brain, but rather their cognitive bodies, which are like different glasses and different hearing aids. Trapped behind these different cognitive tools, the brain of each person develops differently, but it's not inherently the same thing as its body. It's extremely adaptive. It could readjust within another cognitive set, for example. We can learn to see with echolocation, like so many other animals, and see through objects. It would make people more confident, less afraid. Some people tend to create fear in human societies, because they rely too much on what they can see, which leaves them guessing about what's inside. Distrustful. If we all could see inside, like dolphins, maybe we would be friendlier and more playful, naturally. Okay, sorry for the tangent. Hope it's alright.

    N.B.!
    It could seem this justifies murder. Not at all!! What we call life is still a very high order of organization of energy and matter, and it shouldn't be destroyed by other such organizations, due to respecting its complexity.
     
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    #3 enfp can be shy, Mar 12, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
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  4. Stu

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    I am heading for the free hugs thread now

    ONE DAY I WILL DIE
    How does this make me feel? It makes me feel uneasy.
    How do I put into perspective? I use my super human ability to deny its inevitability.
    Is death a natural process? If it weren't we would have no crude oil to run our cars.
    Is this natural? should it be? Everything that begins, ends. That is natural.
    Surely life, in any capacity, would be preferable to the uncertainty of nonexistence? I don't think that you, May, believe this.
     
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  5. beetpoet

    beetpoet Community Member

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    at my age (near 50) i do realize more fully that my life is limited by time. it felt more theoretical before. now it feels more real. like, i was reading something that talked about where things might be in the year 2050 and i thought, "oh, i might not be here" and also "i might be here but wish i was done with being here" (@90 years old).

    when my mom's friend was in her late 90s she would call my mom every morning. dissapointed. "i didn't die yet". she had just done everything she wanted to do and she missed her contemporaries and she was just tired of the "rigamarole" of life. maybe people would live longer if their bodies felt like it and they had same aged friends living longer too? i don't know about people wanting to live forever though. but i guess that's part of the appeal of a belief in an eternal heaven.

    since two good friends of mine died and i was used to connecting with them a lot i feel their absence. although they left a legacy of love with family and friends it feels like time has shifted sand over their accomplishments. time moves on. and makes me think that many of the great souls are not remembered by a vast majority of people in history.

    i do think about my own legacy in that context. it is kind of a relief to give up the idea of impressing a quantity of people who come after me. that my impact and remembrance might be on the quality of my essence left with a few. and that even that, in time, will probably dissipate in history.

    having my daughters in the world feels like a bit of me that might continue to branch and flower. i notice i long for grandchildren in the same way i longed for children when i was young (must be an italian thing!) (luckily the daughters are impervious and are being wise about the timing) :smile:

    i've always been a writer and also hope that my words might be my little marker "i was here". i've always liked how walt whitman wrote some little love notes to his readers of the future in his book of poetry. i might like my words to be a virtual pat on someone's back in the future. ..

    a great topic!


    "When it's over, I want to say: all my life I was a bride married to amazement. I was the bridegroom, taking the world into my arms.
     
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  6. Entyqua

    Entyqua Forgotten
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    ONE DAY I WILL DiE:

    I live my life knowing I will die...

    "Shoot for the moon! Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." Les Brown

    I am not afraid of the prospect of death, I dont want to life forever, and I dont want to live past the enjoyment of life. I know I still take too much for granted, and I work every day to remedy that.

    It is natural to fear death, death before your time, death of the ones you love.

    Death is natural...the most natural thing in the world.

    We are born, we live off the earth, the earth gives, and when we die we give ourselves to the earth.
     
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  7. myself

    myself Permanent Fixture

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    HO-LY SHITZ here it comes

    I am thinking about these things. You have helped to articulate something I have been feeling so strong.

    I stayed awake all night, twice this week, engulfed in thought.

    I could barely talk. I stopped talking to my friends, because I just couldn't.

    I felt like I could communicate more without speaking, and I thought that I might mute myself for an unknown amount of time, maybe years. But to what end?!

    Also, my mind has been focused on dolphins, as well as elephants, but more so on dolphins.

    Both these animals communicate in ways which we are capable of, yet we do not. We choose the crudest tools.

    consider our evolution and the direction we are going

    we ride the crest of a wave, here and now

    in this very moment

    we make choices concerning things which we do not understand through means we take for granted

    all this wasted potential in people

    thisshit gets deeper and i am somewhat afraid to discuss such things

    almost seems pointless

    but something happened to me this week

    and I felt it strong

    I wonder about my place in the world

    I want things to change

    anyone feel this? does any of this gibberish make sense?

    not intending to derail the thread right from the get

    but i feel it's the same line of thought

    PM me if you feel so inclined, whoever you are

    I might not have been successful this time with these words

    I will try again

    ENFPCANBESHY, thank you for the post.
     
  8. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    Knowing we will die is the critical factor in how we live. It permeates every aspect of our existence. When young, we are unaware of this. But, awareness creeps up on you as you age. At my age, 59, I think often about time, and how I should live knowing that my life is finite.
     
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  9. WhiteWolf

    WhiteWolf Community Member

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    One day I will die. I don't like it, but I see no point in fearing it.
    I would want to be able to live forever (and be able to do stuff, so not being to fragile to do anything becouse of age), to be able to choose for myself when I'm done with it. This for the simple reason that I want to see the future, and I just want to do soooo much stuff. Kinda like having all the time in the world.
     
  10. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    Surley this body will be dust again, but death I'll never see.
     
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  11. SpaceCowgirl

    SpaceCowgirl vanilla cat

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    I had a mid-childhood crisis about this when I was about 7. This was when I fully grasped the concept of dying. Not dreaming, not even being aware of the fact that your hearing nothing and seeing nothing. I think this consumed my mind for about a week or two before I was at peace with the whole idea. It doesn't matter because I wont be aware of the fact that I'm dead, so I concentrate on living. My impending doom hasn't bothered me since then.

    Should death occur? I think so. The way the human race functions is entirely based off of the fact that we die. If we didn't die we wouldn't be human, not that it's so great to be human. Death isn't right or wrong, but it's the way things are and beyond are control. I don't think it's wrong to combat our mortality either; if I was offered the chance to live forever I would, and I would definitely regret my decision later and welcome eternal sleep. Resisting death is just as natural to us as dying; just as natural as it is for us to be conflicted over everything.
     
  12. BlinkandThink

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    If infinite human life/health were possible, I think I'd be a lot less tolerant of bullshit.

    As it is, I choose my battles carefully, because I know that I ... and everyone I know ... and humanity as a whole (granted, there's a minor possibility they could find some way out ... at least for a while) is going to die. I want to enjoy my limited time and I want the people I care about, who I'm capable of impacting directly, to enjoy theirs as well ... and that's my priority.

    But if I knew natural death didn't have to happen, I wonder if I'd spend half the year circling the planet with a sword, a white cowboy hat, and a good pair of steel-toed boots. I also wonder if this scenario would be literal or figurative.

    :m083:
     
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  13. muir

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    Everytime someone i know dies i feel like my world has shrunk a little; in a way i suppose it has.

    The earth doesn't care if we are here or not, it will break down our bodies and recycle the matter. Only people recognise that we are here. In a sense this means our own world is only as big as the number of people whose minds we exist in

    Once all the people who knew us or knew of us are gone then we cease to exist.

    Even if we have acheived fame and our name is passed down in history, no one really knows us, they only know a name and the action that name is associated with, so we still cease to exist

    I guess the point i'm trying to make is that death is inevitable, so perhaps what we should do in life is focus on appreciating the people in our lives and the world around us, whilst we are here

    Maybe this requires a recognition that fame is ultimately empty and that perhaps the only worthwhile pursuit is trying to have a positive effect on other people
     
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    #13 muir, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  14. Solongo

    Solongo Well-known member

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    I am not afraid of death. I know I will go home once I die. But I will live this lifetime to the fullest because I don't know when I will be back.:m027:
     
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  15. beetpoet

    beetpoet Community Member

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    i appreciate what you've written. maybe because this is becoming clearer to me. and it is a re-focus. to invest in who i am with people right now. instead of living in anticipation of who i might be to anyone in the future.
     
  16. muir

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    Ozymandias-Shelley

    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away
     
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  17. Norton

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    One thing I will add is that, as I age, I become more convinced that the process is what counts most, not the goal. That is, how you live your life is more important than what you achieve.
     
  18. Sparky

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    How I think of death? It's the same as how I think of life: when there's a birth there is a death. To die is to give all you've got to the next generation, and that is the ultimate form of love.
     
    #18 Sparky, Mar 20, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  19. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    I don't care that I'm going to die. I think that I will be happy to know that death is near when I'm on my deathbed.
     
  20. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access.

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    Death makes life precious to me and thus helps me to be more respectful of the rights and viewpoints of others.

    I'm comfortable with my mortality. Though the raw material of my body may be reincorporated into the biosphere, I don't believe that my specific consciousness will reawaken and that's ok with me. Carpe diem, folks!

    (How ironic to make that last statement as I veg out in front of the damn computer)
     
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