The 14th Amendment

[IndigoSensor]

I have been seeing this a lot in the news lately. There is talk running around over the 14th amendment, which states:

Section 1: ...All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ...

In short, if you are born in the united states, you are automatically a citizen in this country. No if's and's, or but's. Because of the recent shuffle over the Arizona immigration law, a lot of talk has come into play about this. There was a recent article on cnn stating that 8% of newborns in 2008 were from undocumented parents. Aka, non-citizens. A website poll leading to an article on cnn revealed that the majority of it's visitors feel the amendment should be changed. There has also been a lot of talk about immagrints using "ancor babies" to get a foothold in the country. This has all sparked politicans and the public to consider the 14th amendment, and it's place and use in the united states.

So, what are your thoughts on this matter? Do you think the 14th amendment should stay, go, or be changed in some way? Discuss.


Note: I understand this is a very heated topic, and has the potential to get out of whack. Please keep this discussion civil, peaceful, on topic, and relavent.

 

[the]

I think we are past the point where America is the last frontier to be conqured and civilized. The times when you just come on over and get your own free piece of land. I think we need to make a division and have boundries as a nation and to stop trying to be everyone safe haven when we cant even save our selves. I get that not everyone is a burden that comes here, and I am not opposed to less people coming on a case by case basis. Just getting born here though I dont think is a good reason to be a citizen these days.

 

[Phoenix Down]

I'm mexican; therefore, I am completely fine with the amendment as it is.

In all seriousness, Foreign looking children get picked at enough sometimes. The last thing they need is playground taunts acusing them of not being American.

Think about it "My paupa say's you not American and don't belong here" add "No Mo'" if desired. This probably already happens enough... Don't give 'em fuel-
Errr... DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

 

[magister343]

I don't think anyone should be born a citizen, including those like myself whose family has been here since long before the nation was founded. I'd make citizenship a contract that could only be entered with informed consent, requiring testing in English literacy, basic math, history, and civics first. Public education in such subjects would be available for free to any non-citizen resident at any age, but neither taking part in said public education before seeking citizenship nor seeking citizenship at all would be mandatory.

I'd also have open boarders, no requirements like visas or green cards.

 

[Faye]

It wont be changed. Changing it is such a stupid far fetched idea that it will never happen. It is an even worse idea than building a fence across the entire Mexican border.

 

[Gaze]

Changing it is such a stupid far fetched idea that it will never happen.

Why? Just curious about your reasons.

 

[IndigoSensor]

It wont be changed. Changing it is such a stupid far fetched idea that it will never happen.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it won't be changed, but the chances are teeny tiny. But if it is going to be changed, it is going to take decades for it to be done. Amendments are by far the hardest thing to pass. It's gotta go through so many loops, including being raitifed by 38 individual states for it to complete (which would be the biggest obstical for this without a doubt if it were put up).

Adding amendments and removing amendments are hard for a reason. They actually change the constitution.

 

[DoveAlexa]

I have a question: if a non-American woman gives birth in America, what does this mean for her baby (other than he/she is automatically a US citizen)? Does this mean they can't return home with the child without a passport for them, or worse yet, the child would be denied entry into some countries?

 

[Shai Gar]

Can Automatically apply for citizenship.

My father was born, to australian parents in England. He has a british passport as a result and so do I. When he got to australia after their 12 month holiday (he was 6 months old then), grandma and granddad had to apply for naturalisation for him.

Same might apply.

 

[the]

Its too bad this thread died.

bump

 

[Ecton]

Tough one. My relatives all came off of boats and were beaten up by nativists. The result was a lot of organized crime. But you can just watch a Scorsese movie to get the point.

On the other hand, many of us who integrated now want the same cultural integration that nativists feared would be destroyed by my ancestors.

I was in a doctor's office in SF a few months back.There was a traditional Asian family there: Mom, grandpa, grandma, and some teenage kids all helping grandma get some blood work done. As I passed by, I heard one of the teenage girls say to the other "Like, everyone here is so old!". (sigh) I believe that this is a classic case of cultural integration taking place within three generations, whether for better or worse!

just my thoughts for better or worse.

 

[durentu]

if the 14th amendment is changed, then the practice of eugenics will be in place again. Also, you will have to carry, save and proof your rights to ownership as a citizen in this country via family trees and family crests.

then the country will be extremely focused on titles and land rather than productivity and pursuit of happiness. If you secure your borders tightly, you will inbreed yourselves to death. The 14th amendment is the guarantee against stupid titles and strutting family crests.

 

[Razare]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrmqIgMX4f8"]YouTube- Mark Levin - 14th Amendment Babies Born To Illegals Are Not US Citizens[/ame]

I'm sure you'll all hate me for posting Mark Levin, but oh well, go ahead.

 

[Razare]

So if you go back historically, "jurisdiction" does not include illegal immigrants. If we want to change that interpretation, I'm not certain I have a problem with it, but let's not kid ourselves as to what we're doing.

 

[alcyone]

I think that the 14th amendment can work just fine as it is. It is all about interpretation when it comes to the Constitution.

As to those people who come to the US expressly to birth their children here, with the result of the child being an American citizen, I say that these children should be finger printed, have their DNA recorded in a database, and issued some official document certifying the birth in the US. Then the parents should be deported to their country of origin with their child. When the child turns 18 (legal majority), that child will have the right to claim their citizenship be issued a social security number, a birth certificate, etc.

Alternately, if the parents desire their child to remain in the US, then those children should be offered up for adoption to US couples who are unable to bear their own children.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

 

[Stu]

.............. I say that these children should be finger printed, have their DNA recorded in a database, and issued some official document certifying the birth in the US. ..................

shouldn't that apply to everyone born in the US?

 

[bamf]

I'm a little iffy about the DNA database, that's not information I'd consent to giving away.

 

[Stu]

scatter these damn wabbits!

I'm a little iffy about the DNA database, that's not information I'd consent to giving away.

perhaps you would prefer to be injected with the blood of a pregnant woman?

 

[alcyone]

shouldn't that apply to everyone born in the US?

Nope.

A child born to US citizens is issued a birth certificate. I was trying to make a distinction between a birth certificate (document issued to a child of US citizens) and a document meant to record the birth of an US citizen to non-US citizen parents.

In my opinion, it should be more of a case reference number with the fingerprints and DNA as incontrovertible proof that individual was born in the United States and upon reaching the age of 18 is hereby due all rights, protections, privileges, headaches, and miseries associated with US Citizenship.

 

[alcyone]

I'm a little iffy about the DNA database, that's not information I'd consent to giving away.

Chances are, your DNA is already on record somewhere anyway.